Lookism Scaling Revision

[Avaritia_603]

Based on the reasoning Vzearr provided I presume?

Ion even really read this shi fr, they might be.

Yes

 

[DivineAura44]

Yes

Fair ig. I just don't think there's nearly enough proof of Lee > Gap. Even if it was a tough battle that Lee ended up winning because then Yuseong and Mandeok shouldn't scale to a full power 3T Lee. The kings are clearly above those two, even in old age.

 

[Exoko]

Where did James Lee fighting Old Gapryong come from? I could have forgotten a chapter so could you refresh my memory?

 

[DivineAura44]

Where did James Lee fighting Old Gapryong come from? I could have forgotten a chapter so could you refresh my memory?

We know Lee and Kitae killed Gap, we just don't know how.

 

[Exoko]

Then I agree with this thread

 

[Mercury009]

Ion even really read this shi fr, they might be.

They are not, it's just a common Korean surname

 

[Vzearr]

Yes

Dawg. Debate, I bought you here for a reason kid, whats the point of agreeing if you not gonna debate.

 

[DivineAura44]

They are not, it's just a common Korean surname

I know, was just joking because I found the accusation funny.

 

[Avaritia_603]

I think this mostly dwells down to a point that vzear brought up which was james saying there was no one above him, and the op obviously denying by saying he could be lying, however anime character are not epistemic agents and are not capable of having reasoning or thought, so the James statement would basically just be an author statement as someone without reason or thoufht isn't capable of making claims about the world, so the op would have to prove that'd it'd be in character for James to lie and tie it into the narrative which i don't think is possible but I'm not sure.

 

[Exoko]

how many staff votes are needed for these kind of revisions

 

[Mercury009]

I think this mostly dwells down to a point that vzear brought up which was james saying there was no one above him, and the op obviously denying by saying he could be lying, however anime character are not epistemic agents and are not capable of having reasoning or thought, so the James statement would basically just be an author statement as someone without reason or thoufht isn't capable of making claims about the world, so the op would have to prove that'd it'd be in character for James to lie and tie it into the narrative which i don't think is possible but I'm not sure.

In the most recent chapter we literally see how the Incheon King lets James slip past him when he could have 100% caught and defeated him. That alone already debunks his statement of having no one above him, because it's not within his knowledge.

 

[Exoko]

anime character are not epistemic agents and are not capable of having reasoning or thought, so the James statement would basically just be an author statement as someone without reason or thoufht isn't capable of making claims about the world

That is an egregious take, that's like saying every character has a 100% factual rating for everything they say, even for things they have not witnessed simply because the author wrote them saying it, if it were a character with Omniscience or some sort of experience in what they were talking about, sure, but James is neither Omniscient nor has he experienced the strengths of every other character. Characters can be written to be arrogant or cocky, or easygoing and psychotic, they are written to have their own personalities. They aren't just input-output machines w/o any sort of defining features or personality.

I think this mostly dwells down to a point that vzear brought up which was james saying there was no one above him

And he literally said he would 'never be overwhelmed again', that only implies that he believes that no one from this point in time would be capable of overpowering him, that does not include an Old Gap that had died well before this.




I don't reread old chapters so maybe you are referring to another panel, if that is the case then please provide them.

 

[Avaritia_603]

In the most recent chapter we literally see how the Incheon King lets James slip past him when he could have 100% caught and defeated him. That alone already debunks his statement of having no one above him, because it's not within his knowledge.

This is just speculation and the James statement was a while back so it's possible the statement no longer holds up

 

[CatLover313]

how many staff votes are needed for these kind of revisions

Just two, but the Content Revision Moderators need to be conviced

 

[Avaritia_603]

That is an egregious take, that's like saying every character has a 100% factual rating for everything they say, even for things they have not witnessed simply because the author wrote them saying it, if it were a character with Omniscience or some sort of experience in what they were talking about, sure, but James is neither Omniscient nor has he experienced the strengths of every other character. Characters can be written to be arrogant or cocky, or easygoing and psychotic, they are written to have their own personalities. They aren't just input-output machines w/o any sort of defining features or personality.

And he literally said he would 'never be overwhelmed again', that only implies that he believes that no one from this point in time would be capable of overpowering him, that does not include an Old Gap that had died well before this.




I don't reread old chapters so maybe you are referring to another panel, if that is the case then please provtide them.

That's not what what I said entails, I didn't say every statement would be correct because of this, I said that because of what the op was using against vapours reasoning we can employ this method to back up the statement, and that being the op was saying that he could be unreliable or lying and what I brought up warrants further justification for why he'd be unreliable or lying in character.

 

[DivineAura44]

I think this mostly dwells down to a point that vzear brought up which was james saying there was no one above him, and the op obviously denying by saying he could be lying, however anime character are not epistemic agents and are not capable of having reasoning or thought, so the James statement would basically just be an author statement as someone without reason or thoufht isn't capable of making claims about the world, so the op would have to prove that'd it'd be in character for James to lie and tie it into the narrative which i don't think is possible but I'm not sure.

"Characters aren't epistemic agents"
Lmaoooooooooo
Is Burter the fastest in the universe?
No one is saying characters are epistemic agents, but they are devices of the author which can be manipulated in anyway for the purpose of the story. One of these ways is LYING.
I don't have to prove anything because once again, the burden isn't on me.


Respectfully, your argumentation is literally you just reasserting what Vzearr said without actually bringing anything new to the table.

 

[Avaritia_603]

"Characters aren't epistemic agents"
Lmaoooooooooo
Is Burter the fastest in the universe?
No one is saying characters are epistemic agents, but they are devices of the author which can be manipulated in anyway for the purpose of the story. One of these ways is LYING.
I don't have to prove anything because once again, the burden isn't on me.


Respectfully, your argumentation is literally you just reasserting what Vzearr said without actually bringing anything new to the table.

Yeah the author using things as plot tools which is why you'd have to prove it's in character to lie and tie it to narrative

Respectfully u didn't understand

 

[DivineAura44]

Yeah the author using things as plot tools which is why you'd have to prove it's in character to lie and tie it to narrative

Respectfully u didn't understand

If you are just gonna repeat yourself, I'm not gonna engage.

The point is simple. Prove that James Lee was the strongest. And if you are going to do that with a statement, use a reliable statement from a trustable source. Otherwise your argument is void.

 

[Avaritia_603]

If you are just gonna repeat yourself, I'm not gonna engage.

The point is simple. Prove that James Lee was the strongest. And if you are going to do that with a statement, use a reliable statement from a trustable source. Otherwise your argument is void.

That just begs the question and avoids the issue, what's in question is if the statement is reliable, and your just trying to move on from that, I explained how the burden is yours, if u don't want to engage I don't see how this will be accepted

 

[Exoko]

Did you just ignore this?

And he literally said he would 'never be overwhelmed again', that only implies that he believes that no one from this point in time would be capable of overpowering him, that does not include an Old Gap that had died well before this.

Old Gap is not included in this statement.
Unless you think James believes Gap will revive which is way too farfetched for this.

 

[Exoko]

That's not what what I said entails, I didn't say every statement would be correct because of this, I said that because of what the op was using against vapours reasoning we can employ this method to back up the statement, and that being the op was saying that he could be unreliable or lying and what I brought up warrants further justification for why he'd be unreliable or lying in character.

I think this mostly dwells down to a point that vzear brought up which was james saying there was no one above him, and the op obviously denying by saying he could be lying, however anime character are not epistemic agents and are not capable of having reasoning or thought, so the James statement would basically just be an author statement as someone without reason or thoufht isn't capable of making claims about the world, so the op would have to prove that'd it'd be in character for James to lie and tie it into the narrative which i don't think is possible but I'm not sure.

So you're treating James as if he were a miscellaneous character used to expand the plot, not the cocky psycho he's been portrayed as since Cheonliang. You're just stripping away his character and verifying everything he says as if he's Omniscient.



The proof is simple:

Is there anything to suggest that the 'but that won't happen again' includes Old Gap and that James had experienced Old Gap's full power?
If none of these are checked, James is lying as he does not have enough information to make a statement showing superiority over Old Gap.

And neither of those are checked, so not only is James not referring to Gapryong since from this time and onwards he would no longer show up (as he is dead), he has no measure of his strength to even compare himself with him.

Unless you think that James is Omniscient (has knowledge of the strengths of every character, even those he had not experienced and factually states that he is above them) and cannot set his words straight, the statement holds little to no weight.

Also I don't know if you're talking about the panel I put in my other comment or some other one that I could have forgotten from like a hundred chapters ago, provide the scans & chapter number if this is the case.

 

[DivineAura44]

That just begs the question and avoids the issue, what's in question is if the statement is reliable, and your just trying to move on from that, I explained how the burden is yours, if u don't want to engage I don't see how this will be accepted

Your only reasoning for why the statement is reliable boils down to "because James said it", yet I'm question begging? Lmaooo. As I've explained before, I'm taking a neutral stance, I'm not saying the statement is 100% verifiably false. I'm saying we don't know that it's true. And because you want the 8-C on the profile, you need to provide statements that we can actually have reasoning to trust. This would be an author/writer statement (best) , or a statement from an unbiased informed 3rd party, such as if Tom Lee said "Yeah that James guy is stronger than even Gapryong in his prime." What we have instead is a character saying he's the strongest, and I'm instantly just supposed to take his word for it, no questions asked.

Until you actually provide evidence that James is the strongest, we can't just take James word for it. I don't see why I keep having to re-explain such simple logic. But sure, as you said we can just move on and see how the mods evaluate it because I'm tired of going in circles.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Your only reasoning for why the statement is reliable boils down to "because James said it", yet I'm question begging? Lmaooo. As I've explained before, I'm taking a neutral stance, I'm not saying the statement is 100% verifiably false. I'm saying we don't know that it's true. And because you want the 8-C on the profile, you need to provide statements that we can actually have reasoning to trust. This would be an author/writer statement (best) , or a statement from an unbiased informed 3rd party, such as if Tom Lee said "Yeah that James guy is stronger than even Gapryong in his prime." What we have instead is a character saying he's the strongest, and I'm instantly just supposed to take his word for it, no questions asked.

Until you actually provide evidence that James is the strongest, we can't just take James word for it. I don't see why I keep having to re-explain such simple logic. But sure, as you said we can just move on and see how the mods evaluate it because I'm tired of going in circles.

Yeah that's my only reasoning if u ignore the other things I've said, and that has nothing to do with question begging and it's fine if you're taking a neutral stance because I'm not arguing for a full certainty statement, I'm saying because of these things I've explained previously it raises the probability of it being true above the other baseless possibilities like him lying.

 

[Avaritia_603]

So you're treating James as if he were a miscellaneous character used to expand the plot, not the cocky psycho he's been portrayed as since Cheonliang. You're just stripping away his character and verifying everything he says as if he's Omniscient.



The proof is simple:

Is there anything to suggest that the 'but that won't happen again' includes Old Gap and that James had experienced Old Gap's full power?
If none of these are checked, James is lying as he does not have enough information to make a statement showing superiority over Old Gap.

And neither of those are checked, so not only is James not referring to Gapryong since from this time and onwards he would no longer show up (as he is dead), he has no measure of his strength to even compare himself with him.

Unless you think that James is Omniscient (has knowledge of the strengths of every character, even those he had not experienced and factually states that he is above them) and cannot set his words straight, the statement holds little to no weight.

Also I don't know if you're talking about the panel I put in my other comment or some other one that I could have forgotten from like a hundred chapters ago, provide the scans & chapter number if this is the case.

I'm not sure of the panel myself I'm just going by what vzear said

 

[DivineAura44]

Yeah that's my only reasoning if u ignore the other things I've said, and that has nothing to do with question begging and it's fine if you're taking a neutral stance because I'm not arguing for a full certainty statement, I'm saying because of these things I've explained previously it raises the probability of it being true above the other baseless possibilities like him lying.

I've actually provided a basis for him lying, overconfidence. Meanwhile I've received ZERO reason to believe the statement other than its existence. Not to mention it doesn't even take into account the fact that we don't even know if this statement includes Gap.

 

[Avaritia_603]

I've actually provided a basis for him lying, overconfidence. Meanwhile I've received ZERO reason to believe the statement other than its existence. Not to mention it doesn't even take into account the fact that we don't even know if this statement includes Gap.

I've actually provided a basis for him lying, overconfidence. Meanwhile I've received ZERO reason to believe the statement other than its existence. Not to mention it doesn't even take into account the fact that we don't even know if this statement includes Ga

So u justify something baseless with something baseless? How does that raise the probability of it being true

U have received reasons, you just don't accept them

 

[Exoko]

Just two, but the Content Revision Moderators need to be conviced

How long does it normally take for them to notice, do you have to go to their message walls to have a chance to avoid waiting weeks for a review? There were a few CRTs I looked at here months & even a year ago that still haven't passed.

 

[CatLover313]

How long does it normally take for them to notice, do you have to go to their message walls to have a chance to avoid waiting weeks for a review? There were a few CRTs I looked at here months & even a year ago that still haven't passed.

One thing for sure, all arguments will need to be addressed in the CRT (unless it comes to a stalemate). If it becomes a stalemate, it’ll be what the moderator believes is the better argument. Honestly, the biggest thing is just persisting and bumping daily. Maybe start messaging content revision moderators on their forum walls to review the thread too.

While I haven’t bumped a thread for too long, I’ve had to bump calculations for 4 months before eventually getting evaluated…

 

[DivineAura44]

So u justify something baseless with something baseless? How does that raise the probability of it being true

U have received reasons, you just don't accept them

How is his overconfidence (shown with multiple statements of his alleged superiority over Seongji) baseless, and how is it not a basis for him lying?

Also what reasons? Seriously, other than the fact that James said it, what reason do I have to believe James' statement.

 

[Avaritia_603]

How is his overconfidence (shown with multiple statements of his alleged superiority over Seongji) baseless, and how is it not a basis for him lying?

Also what reasons? Seriously, other than the fact that James said it, what reason do I have to believe James' statement.

That's just burden shifting

Do u not remember my whole epistemic agent point? Or do u need a refresher

 

[DivineAura44]

That's just burden shifting

Do u not remember my whole epistemic agent point? Or do u need a refresher

That's just wrong.
See how I can just throw words around too?

You are also making a non-sequitur. Yes, we agree characters aren't epistemic agents. Yes, they are devices of the author. Nowhere from that follows that James is therefore more likely to be telling the truth. Authors also use characters for the purpose of lying. This helps you understand the vulnerability of humans and the cockiness of them as well without having to outright say "oh yeah btw, James is overconfident." Not too mention the other millions of reasons a character may lie that I haven't mentioned.
What's the point of even having the term 'character statement' if all character statements are just reflections of what the author thinks anyways? Hint: Maybe because they aren't.

 

[Avaritia_603]

That's just wrong.
See how I can just throw words around too?

You are also making a non-sequitur. Yes, we agree characters aren't epistemic agents. Yes, they are devices of the author. Nowhere from that follows that James is therefore more likely to be telling the truth. Authors also use characters for the purpose of lying. This helps you understand the vulnerability of humans and the cockiness of them as well without having to outright say "oh yeah btw, James is overconfident." Not too mention the other millions of reasons a character may lie that I haven't mentioned.
What's the point of even having the term 'character statement' if all character statements are just reflections of what the author thinks anyways? Hint: Maybe because they aren't.

Yeah that's what u did with your overconfidence point.

You are just saying that it isn't the case when I explained in my original message why it was.

James being overconfident can also entail that he's just bragging out his strength.

And that's fine character statements aren't an objective thing, I can reject the concept

 

[DivineAura44]

Yeah that's what u did with your overconfidence point.

You are just saying that it isn't the case when I explained in my original message why it was.

James being overconfident can also entail that he's just bragging out his strength.

And that's fine character statements aren't an objective thing, I can reject the concept

Ok cool, so we agree to disagree, thanks.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Ok cool, so we agree to disagree, thanks.

Well yeah ur argument is very poor and lackluster

 

[Exoko]

Let's just wait for someone to review this now

 

[DivineAura44]

Mods please, I'm begging you

 

[CatLover313]

Mods please, I'm begging you

Don't give up, bump

 

[CatLover313]

I'll bump this for you again

 

[DivineAura44]

I'll bump this for you again

Man I forgot this shit existed

Mods please

 

[DivineAura44]

Bump