LoL Boundary vs LoL Transmutation

[FateAlbane]

Uhh yukaris range is low multiversal ._.

• It's Multiversal actually, it was recently upgraded IIRC.

 

[MrBreakout]

Not if she's start to transmute first. And in BB discussion, I already said that traveling to the another dimension after being partly transmutated won't work. It'll stick until you turn into paste. Also Devilman's range is technically Low Multiversal as well since his range includes material and spiritual realm, two separate universes. He's Interdimensional because he can go more than that like dreams, consciousness, pocket reality, etc.

Transmutation wouldn't be killing her though, just turning her into something else, she regens from this and gap teleports anyways, assuming who does what first, if he transmutes she regens and uses the ability, if she doesn't, she does it regardless. Touhou isn't limited to just 2 universes, it has numerous worlds, yukari travels to these worlds on a daily occassion so she'd have a very higher degree in terms of range. Alongside the fact that I still didnt recieve an answer to whether or not he can survive 2-D BFR, if he cant then he's pretty much toast here

 

[MrBreakout]

Uhh yukaris range is low multiversal ._.

• It's Multiversal actually, it was recently upgraded IIRC.

Welp, that makes this battle more one sided.

Yukari imo

gonna upgrade yukari to tier 2 one day Owo

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It kinda kills? It isn't just normal transmutation, it was supposed to be a technique that merge the demon and human together both mind, body and soul went out of control. It's supposed to be a Fusionism technique. And I said this again. Regenerationn won't work. The demons couldn't regenerate.

 

[MrBreakout]

It kinda kills? It isn't just normal transmutation, it was supposed to be a technique that merge the demon and human together both mind, body and soul went out of control. It's supposed to be a Fusionism technique. And I said this again. Regenerationn won't work. The demons couldn't regenerate.

He would have to find a demon to actually fuse her with him she also isnt human, so there should be a question on whether this would work on youkai or not Given speeds equalized she would use her gap powers no? Unless this fusionism works on a planetary range, her powers should give her the advantage here again, seeing he cant access her at that point and he cant counter 2-D Bfr

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It kinda doesn't need to be. Just look at one of the panels I gave, they are transmutating without a demon. It can transmutate even dino for God's sake. And yes, it works on planetary range.

 

[MrBreakout]

It kinda doesn't need to be. Just look at one of the panels I gave, they are transmutating without a demon. It can transmutate even dino for God's sake. And yes, it works on planetary range.

You said fusionism affected the soul and mind, not transmutation, granted couldn't she just seperate from the space-time continuum? or you know 2-D bfr him? Dragging people into otherworlds is something rather in her character considering its an ability she abuses alot. Given the range between the two, i'd say yukari would have more stage control considering she can manipulate the boundary of every existence

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

If she reacts first, the thing is, reaction speed is equalized. She'll get transmutated at the time she decides to go to separate space-time continuum. And even if she goes there Transmutation won't stop.

 

[MrBreakout]

If she reacts first, the thing is, reaction speed is equalized. She'll get transmutated at the time she decides to go to separate space-time continuum. And even if she goes there Transmutation won't stop.

But you're not taking into consideration on what yukari can do. What you said for soul and mind only correlated to fusionism which isnt transmutation so she could survive. It's obvious at this point that she could 2-D BFR him which you didnt cover alongside seperate him from space-time

Come to think of it whats to say either would be fast enough to use their ability first if speed's equalized?

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

It is a Transmutation. It's just gone wrong horrible Fusionism that turned transmutation. And she won't survive Mid-Godly guys are dead and can't regenerate. Also because thinking>moving.

 

[MrBreakout]

It is a Transmutation. It's just gone wrong horrible Fusionism that turned transmutation. And she won't survive Mid-Godly guys are dead and can't regenerate. Also because thinking>moving.

Was the scan showing people being fused with each other or just simply transmuted?

Also why deduce on who would use what first and how fast would it be? he has a variety of powers in his arsenal, the onus would be on you to provide whether this is something he does on a regular occassion in character. Alongside the fact that i've reiterated that her range is far higher so she would seperate him from space-time, or conceptually erase him, or 2-D BFRing him and the latter goes on. She has a wide variety of options here

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

They're transmutated. The Earth can't be fused together yet he can turn it to goo.

The wide variety doesn't mean anything if you don't use it first. The starting range is 2km at best. It's enough to transmutate her to goo. That's what we do in the first place, deduce who uses what by examining their behavior and character to determine who wins. That's what he does in character. It's faster because thinking is faster than moving. Thinking something is faster than moving to somewhere just like thinking about your food is faster than going on a kitchen.

 

[MrBreakout]

They're transmutated. The Earth can't be fused together yet he can turn it to goo.
The wide variety doesn't mean anything if you don't use it first. The starting range is 2km at best. It's enough to transmutate her to goo. That's what we do in the first place, deduce who uses what by examining their behavior and character to determine who wins. That's what he does in character. It's faster because thinking is faster than moving. Thinking something is faster than moving to somewhere just like thinking about your food is faster than going on a kitchen.

And that's what I did, this is her already in character, yukari uses her abilities first as a means to deal with her opponent or just simple wanting to move to other locations. Her abilities aren't done by moving though nor was that implied in the series. Affecting something abstract doesn't involve movement, it morely involves understanding the idea and then manipulating it I.E thinking. Its the same with boundaries since they dont have a concrete existence

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I thought she abuses her highest range? To do that, she needs to move dimensions and didn't she create portals to move through? Also, if thinking about something you usually do and understand is faster than thinking about something you do not understand at first. Transmutation is still faster.

 

[MrBreakout]

I thought she abuses her highest range? To do that, she needs to move dimensions and didn't she create portals to move through? Also, if thinking about something you usually do and understand is faster than thinking about something you do not understand at first. Transmutation is still faster.

She abuses a plethora of things. She doesnt make the portals, they more likely just open up and then she walks through them. Yukari already understands majority of the boundary she manipulates, how else would she manipulate them? Its at first hand she would need to understand it but granted since she does already it isn't a problem for her.


dont wanna be that guy to vote inconclusive since I want yukari to win but this seems inconclusive

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Sorry but she's dead before she crosses that portals. That's what she needs to use to abuse the range and she wasted the time before she gets a big goo. If she needs to walk to them, she is Dead because thinking is faster than moving. Because Amon is foreign to Yukari because they are from different verse. You can't understand something coming from another verse without some sort of Nigh-Omniscience.

 

[MrBreakout]

I'll reiterate that she uses a plethora of things again, which shouldn't just limit her to that ability, I'll concede to the notion that if she uses that first she basically gets bomboozled but she has used her ability to affect truth and falsehood and other concepts. I established that this would require thought as manipulate concept means having understanding of it. I never claimed she did understand him, what I'm claiming here is that she has alot in her arsenal here which would include movement and thought. If she decides to use her boundary manipulation, then he gets conceptually destroyed or sent to the 2nd dimension

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

That doesn't mean anything if she doesn't use it first. It's just make the battle not stomp. Even if she managed to use her ability the Transmutation won't stop. Again. Asura was dead yet it still continued.

 

[MrBreakout]

You said yourself that abilities based on thought are faster than movement, if she uses this ability then he gets conceptually destroyed or sent to the 2nd dimension. What I've seen so far isn't even passive. There's no counter to being sent to the second dimension as shown for now.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Transmutation is thought based ability. If they use the ability on each other at the same time, they're both dead. When she try to abuse her range, she's dead. Boundary isn't even passive. It's whether you pick shitty option A or shitty option B.

 

[MrBreakout]

I'm not claiming it isn't, I'm saying something you said and considering there wasnt a refutation of conceptual manipulation being thought based as well, so this is a strawman dude. Didn't I concede to the notion that if she uses it then she sould lose? When did I say boundary was passive? You're taking what I'm saying a bit out of context, I'm saying you're deducing who does what first when I'm saying that's illogical given whats in character and thus could be inconclusive

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

So, I didn't get what you said. Sorry about that. Is that a vote?

 

[MrBreakout]

for inconclusive? probably, given I dont know how devilman operates

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Counted

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Hm, it's surprising to see the OP really debate against the people reading the thread. Just an observation.

But anyway with precognition and anti precognition and transmutation it pretty much means he knows what to do to win. But on the other hand just because you're resistant to precognition users doesn't mean external factors aren't. I'm pretty sure too that Yukari can go intangible and undo the effect of transmutation from what Fate told me before.

Regen debate aside, there's still the massive issue of range and how that's Yukari's go to ability. Either one gets transmutated, or concept manip/existence erasure erases the transmutation/Yukari's body affected and goes for a new one.

So voting for likely tie, leaning on Yukari.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Counted

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[Arekusuripa]

Hard to say - both have equal chances to kill each other with a single hit, so inconclusive.

 

[Aizenishere]

I'll vote Amon. They both have an equal chance to kill each other with a single hit yes but Amon goes for the definite kill 9/10. If Yukari starts with the wrong move she's screwed.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[FateAlbane]

Going from the whole discussion I can't quite say heads or tails here anymore.

I'll say Inconclusive FRA for the timebeing, unless some game-changing reply comes along for one or another.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Incon FRA.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Incon FRA as well

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Bump

 

[The_Causality]

the vote of salvation:

Inconc fra

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

And the vote of End:

Incon fra

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Goddamit, Amon is Low 2-C now.