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Lobotomy Corporation Damage Types and Mind-Hax Revision

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InfiniteDay

InfiniteDay

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I recently created a blog that revises the verse's Damage Types and passive Mind Hax potency. The full blog is down below so that you can read the explanations.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:InfiniteDay/Damage_Types_(Lobotomy_Corporation)

TL;DR:

Passive mind-hax of the Abnormalities are upgraded to 4D due to stemming from and being superior to the Well of Humanity's mind hax which is a structure that expands throughout all of history, infinite possibilities (which create infinite branching timelines) along with being the source beyond all of reality.

Those who resist RED Damage also gain resistance to EE because of a RED Damage weapon from Distortion Detective erasing the upper half of someone's body.

WHITE Damage users have their potency (though already 4D) upgraded to 6.7 Billion through scaling to The Pianist's mind hax which affected nearly everybody in the City. WHITE Damage now also includes Morality Manipulation and they also get possible Resistance to Soul Manipulation as Solitude can potentially affect the soul.

Those who exclusively use BLACK Damage will have their AP changed to Unknown as the physical part of BLACK Damage is just Corrosion Inducement. The mental part of BLACK DAMAGE will still have Resistance Negation as those with resistances to WHITE Damage will not resist this part of BLACK Damage.

PALE Damage users get a massive buff due to in-lore statements and feats from Hookah Caterpillar, gaining Soul Manipulation, Life-Force Absorption, Durability Negation, Mind Manipulation and Resistance Negation (for the same reason as BLACK Damage). They also get Paralysis Inducement because of Distortion Detective stuff.

Finally, all Abnormalities TETH and above get resistances to everything shown here, as regardless of their in-game resistances, they should all be able to resist all Damage Types better than Clerks (regular humans) can.

Also forgot to mention Nothing There and Apocalypse Bird get Class M LS because Nothing There's cleaver was beyond all mass measurement limits.


Agree: 7 (@Shmooply, @First_Witch, @deonment, @Saikou_The_Lewd_King, @Peppersalt43, @Lou_change, @Pixy)

Disagree: 0

Inconclusive: 1 (@Wokistan (Agrees with all changes except Mind-Hax potency)
 
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Specifically, Abnormalities are directly extracted from the Well of Humanity. And the description of their passive mindhax is very similar to how effects from the Well of Humanity is shown to be. So it's safe to assume their passive mindhax is essentially the same. And WHITE damage can mentally damage people who can handle both Abnormality passive mindhax and the Well itself (e.g. Binah).

As well it's important to note the BLACK Damage AP change is because we'd consider BLACK Damage durability negation instead of just... "Resistance Negation".

Otherwise fine.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Specifically, Abnormalities are directly extracted from the Well of Humanity. And the description of their passive mindhax is very similar to how effects from the Well of Humanity is shown to be. So it's safe to assume their passive mindhax is essentially the same. And WHITE damage can mentally damage people who can handle both Abnormality passive mindhax and the Well itself (e.g. Binah).

As well it's important to note the BLACK Damage AP change is because we'd consider BLACK Damage durability negation instead of just... "Resistance Negation".
Click to expand...
BLACK Damage AP was specifically said to be Unknown because it's just Corrosion Inducement on the TL;DR.

Everything else was listed on the blog itself.

Thanks for the comment though!
 
As one of the last few people who still make Lobotomy Corp matches, I'll agree to this

And don't worry, most of the matches I've made, I worked around the madness instead of just using madness resistance
 
The well being 4D isn't on your blog, but I don't think that it being that would inherently make its mind stuff of that potency anyways, especially when this screenshot mentions that the guy wasn't entirely unsalvageable. As we know from people like goku, it's perfectly possible to be low 2-C or whatever in one aspect and not automatically jack everyone else's properties up to such a level.

Control+F-ing on the webnovel doesn't seem to find them establishing that it's red damage a la the lob damage types, but I haven't read that so it could just be denoted under some convention I'm unaware of. At the very least, if this thing's legit it'd have to be denoted somehow in the blog anyways, since it's supposed to provide info to the unfamiliar, so it's good info to have no matter what.

The Pianist thing doesn't seem to say that it's effecting the whole city (and given what happens to the likes of Bremen and Meow's people, the city would be even worse off if it did) and I wouldn't say "top of WAW or bottom of ALEPH" is exactly something that would scale out to tons of people anyways. You can read it as the pianist being literally heard throughout the entire city, as in being very loud, or being figuratively heard throughout the entire city, as in being the first well known distortion calamity that killed a ridiculous number of people, but neither of these really say that the thing has irrevocably damaged the minds of everyone around.

Had a bit of an issue with the black mental resistance thing but that was there before this thread, the other part seems fine.

I don't really like pale mindhax resistance neg, listing pale as mindhax in the first place is based off a bit where it says it permeates their body and their mind but considering that it's death manip as is that just sort of turns living beings off, you'd already expect it to do that in the first place. I'm not really all that keen on listing alternative mindhax forms like that as resistance neg in the first place, but with this one in particular I think it's trying to extrapolate another power from effects that aren't really contradicted by what we already know it does. The other stuff is fine though.

I'm contractually obligated to find fault with everything I read on the site, so I'll say that I'm sure there's probably some abno out there with an unusually shitty resistance or whatever. GG.
 
Wokistan said:
The well being 4D isn't on your blog, but I don't think that it being that would inherently make its mind stuff of that potency anyways, especially when this screenshot mentions that the guy wasn't entirely unsalvageable. As we know from people like goku, it's perfectly possible to be low 2-C or whatever in one aspect and not automatically jack everyone else's properties up to such a level.
Click to expand...
(Being 4D is on my blog you just go to look at the italicized WHITE Damage section)

Being superior to/stemming from the mind-hax of a 4D structure does make your mind-hax 4D. Is it to be noted that in the screenshot you used, even with them using the maximum dose of Enkephalin they possibly could (i.e. the energy source from Abno's that stem from the Well and are in turn also 4D), they are practically a walking vegetable.

Wokistan said:
Control+F-ing on the webnovel doesn't seem to find them establishing that it's red damage a la the lob damage types, but I haven't read that so it could just be denoted under some convention I'm unaware of. At the very least, if this thing's legit it'd have to be denoted somehow in the blog anyways, since it's supposed to provide info to the unfamiliar, so it's good info to have no matter what.
Click to expand...
Distortion Detective's Moses has a phycopment (EGO) that can take of the form of multiple weapons and breathe smoke that signify damage types. Red smoke is purely physical, White smoke can affect the mind, Violet smoke is decently vague, but it does affect the mind and body, while Pale Smoke is straight up stated to signify death (which PALE Damage does as well). It's all color coordinated and it follows established rules, so it's fine.

I'll add a note on the blog itself about the smoke.
Wokistan said:
The Pianist thing doesn't seem to say that it's affecting the whole city (and given what happens to the likes of Bremen and Meow's people, the city would be even worse off if it did) and I wouldn't say "top of WAW or bottom of ALEPH" is exactly something that would scale out to tons of people anyways. You can read it as the pianist being literally heard throughout the entire city, as in being very loud, or being figuratively heard throughout the entire city, as in being the first well known distortion calamity that killed a ridiculous number of people, but neither of these really say that the thing has irrevocably damaged the minds of everyone around.
Click to expand...
For your first part, your right, it doesn't affect everybody, it just affects so many people that it would be "alot easier" to say people who didn't hear the music then did. And from that statement, i'm not exactly taking it as anything that should significantly affect the results in any meaningful way. Finally, even if Pianist was indeed an ALEPH, their mind-hax potency would still downscale to all WHITE Damage users, considering that they can all meaningfully affect each other (even Blue Star can be affected by TETH WHITE Damage, although it's not very meaningful). And for your last part, the sound was specifically the thing that induced the mind hax and turned people into music. Roland specifically said the majority of people heard the sounds, meaning the majority people were affected by it. And once again, WHITE Damage did damage the psyche of everything it affected, that's literally what it does and WHITE Damage is.

Wokistan said:
I don't really like pale mindhax resistance neg, listing pale as mindhax in the first place is based off a bit where it says it permeates their body and their mind but considering that it's death manip as is that just sort of turns living beings off, you'd already expect it to do that in the first place. I'm not really all that keen on listing alternative mindhax forms like that as resistance neg in the first place, but with this one in particular I think it's trying to extrapolate another power from effects that aren't really contradicted by what we already know it does. The other stuff is fine though.
Click to expand...
Like you said, PALE Damage has mind hax because it "permeates through the mind and body", meaning that at some level the death manip can pass through the mind. It's not mind-hax in the conventional sense, and as such WHITE Damage resistances do not help. It is even stated that "Even the toughest body and wisest mind will not matter", which gives further proof that WHITE Damage resistance will not help alleviate its effects.


Anyways, thanks for commenting!
 
The mindhax comes from direct exposure to a Low 2-C/2-A semi-mental realm. I do not think it is reasonable to say this mindhax would be lower than the tier of the realm itself (especially since the mindhaxxed person was an employee, who mostly have resistances to mindhax anyway).

The Pianist didn't entirely mindhax everyone, but it did affect the mind of everyone in the city to a supernatural degree, given how Roland describes it as some mind-changing experience. Some were just not as affected as others.

The Moses thing is a bit weird but it is rather well established that Moses utilizes the 4 Damage type. She uses physically-based red-themed damage, mental-based white-themed damage, the thorny purple damage and the life force sucking pale-themed damage. And her weapon is an EGO weapon, further proving it's RWBP.
 
The thing about the mindhax is that being from the tier 2 realm itself does not immediately make the mindhax itself tier 2 in potency. This doesn't follow site precedent (See: Destiny's Ascendant Plane, Warhammer's Warp, MTG's Blind Eternities [Existence Erasure, but same concept]) but also just isn't really something that can be inferred like that anyways. As it turns out, not every instance of a structure doing something is comparable to that entire structure being jammed in your head. In this instance, the well doesn't have feats of messing with similarly superior entities which are the usual way of getting these sorts of things to scale to everybody. The feats it has in this instance are being a nasty thing for that random employee to see, but ultimately putting him in a state where he could be brought back to some productivity through extensive medication. This doesn't establish that he is being diffused throughout the entire well or whatever else would be used to scale a potential resistance potency up to such a degree, this just establishes that the well is capable of breaking the mind of this apparently average guy.

If the red damage is that crimson breath stuff, that works.

The issue with the pianist thing is that even if it did get literally heard by every person, which admittedly isn't that crazy, it clearly didn't **** up the minds of everyone who heard it to the extent that you can use this as some straightforward resistance. It hasn't done anything to these people, and we know what it looks like when it does work, as we see with bremen and the other musicians. The way something is theoretically supposed to function as per statements, in this case white damage being major mental problems, is subordinate to how it actually does. Pianist didn't break the brain of 7 billion people, and there's no real way to argue that the entire city should be resistant to the pianist's thing that isn't recursive, so it just doesn't have a feat of mindhax on the order of 7 billion people. It just getting into the mind of someone at all is just not all that relevant for comparison purposes in almost any case, because everyone else using numerical comparison is using a number of far more significantly impacted individuals.

The thing with pale was that death already permeates the mind. That's more or less the medical definition of death, irreconcilable cessation of brain function. It'd be a redundant rating that would have to be given to pretty much every death user, and certainly shouldn't really be taken as cheating around normal death resistances.
 
Wokistan said:
The thing about the mindhax is that being from the tier 2 realm itself does not immediately make the mindhax itself tier 2 in potency. This doesn't follow site precedent (See: Destiny's Ascendant Plane, Warhammer's Warp, MTG's Blind Eternities [Existence Erasure, but same concept]) but also just isn't really something that can be inferred like that anyways. As it turns out, not every instance of a structure doing something is comparable to that entire structure being jammed in your head. In this instance, the well doesn't have feats of messing with similarly superior entities which are the usual way of getting these sorts of things to scale to everybody.
Click to expand...
The thing about mind-hax is that it absolutely stems from and is superior to a 4D structure's mind-hax, which in turn makes it 4D. This does in fact follow site precedent, and everything you have mentioned are separate from this and cannot be used as an example, as this is different scenario. This isn't inferred either... it's pretty clear cut I would say. It would make no sense to say "A is from and also is superior B, but A is lower in dimensionality" because this implies inferiority in potency, when the opposite is the case. Also, the Well may be 2-A, but this is not relevant to the conversation, since we're talking about dimensionality, not tiering for mind-hax.
Wokistan said:
The feats it has in this instance are being a nasty thing for that random employee to see, but ultimately putting him in a state where he could be brought back to some productivity through extensive medication. This doesn't establish that he is being diffused throughout the entire well or whatever else would be used to scale a potential resistance potency up to such a degree, this just establishes that the well is capable of breaking the mind of this apparently average guy.
Click to expand...
The employee literally had a complete mental breakdown trying to describe a simple event and was stated that "their fragile mind wouldn't last a day" by Binah, after being drugged up on the maximum dose of Enkephalin (4D energy) that they physically could. His boundary collapsing means that the boundary between ones mind and the Well is broken, so the mind becomes directly apart of the well. The guy literally couldn't be salvaged unless they used maximum amounts of Enkephalin to bring him back, and even then Binah gives him like a day at most until his mind collapses.

Wokistan said:
If the red damage is that crimson breath stuff, that works.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Moses's smoke corresponds to the damage types. Glad we can agree.
Wokistan said:
The issue with the pianist thing is that even if it did get literally heard by every person, which admittedly isn't that crazy, it clearly didn't **** up the minds of everyone who heard it to the extent that you can use this as some straightforward resistance. It hasn't done anything to these people, and we know what it looks like when it does work, as we see with bremen and the other musicians.
Click to expand...
The mind-manipulation part is admittedly a bit wonky with how it works. It is stated to "pierce the soul" which is obviously metaphorical, which causes either extreme adoration for it's music and was the reason why people got turned into music notes and absorbed into The Pianist. If it affected one to much, they literally died. Many people were able to hold on, but like the Marksmen of the Mist in DD, multiple people are capable of resisting WHITE bullets through sheer mental fortitude, which is also how it works in Lobotomy.
Wokistan said:
The way something is theoretically supposed to function as per statements, in this case white damage being major mental problems, is subordinate to how it actually does. Pianist didn't break the brain of 7 billion people, and there's no real way to argue that the entire city should be resistant to the pianist's thing that isn't recursive, so it just doesn't have a feat of mindhax on the order of 7 billion people. It just getting into the mind of someone at all is just not all that relevant for comparison purposes in almost any case, because everyone else using numerical comparison is using a number of far more significantly impacted individuals.
Click to expand...
WHITE Damage is wonky in Lobotomy Corporation, and The Pianist's doesn't function like normal as I explained earlier. The Pianist didn't break the brain of 6.8 billion people because that isn't what it does. It pierces the minds and souls of everybody who heard it and if one couldn't overcome it or hold on long enough, you got turned into music notes or absorbed. I'm sure this counts as a feat of mindhax on 6.8 billion people, as that is quite literally what it did, many people just had the mental fortitude to hold on long enough to not be turned into music. Even in the trailer, people got instantly turned into music notes when the music started to pass by. I'm not sure what you mean by your last point, because this in an indexing wiki and it's important information, so we are going to list it. Doesn't matter that others may have more affected, that's a non-issue.
Wokistan said:
The thing with pale was that death already permeates the mind. That's more or less the medical definition of death, irreconcilable cessation of brain function. It'd be a redundant rating that would have to be given to pretty much every death user, and certainly shouldn't really be taken as cheating around normal death resistances.
Click to expand...
PALE Damage permeates the mind the same way that BLACK and WHITE do it, which is alot more metaphysical that actually punching the brain. And no, death users would not have it because they aren't literally affecting the mind, they are killing off people and therefore they become brain dead. This isn't the case with PALE Damage. In any case, it's not going around normal death resistances, just for mind manip much like BLACK Damage.
 
Alrighty, on Discord Wok has agreed that I can just apply all changes not related to the Well mindhax, as we both agree on them. Will be doing so right now, so please do not close this thread just yet.
 
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