Lisa Revision

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@Saikou_The_Lewd_King

Would you be willing to comment a bit more here please?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am sending another notification to @Saikou_The_Lewd_King then.

 

[Antvasima]

@Newendigo @Schwxnz @Mariogoods

Are you willing to comment here as well?

 

[Newendigo]

Limited Resurrection shouldn't be on any profile of these, bringing someone who fainted, was unconscious or KO'd is complety different from literally bringing them back to life.

(Can shoot fireballs made of ki) That would be Chi Manipulation, not energy manip.

I'm unsure about giving all those resistances to Buzzo, as while you can't defeat him in The Painful due to being intended to be impossible for the story, you later fight him at the end of Joyful as a joy mutant and I'm pretty sure Buddy can damage him with all of those abilities.

Giving Yado stat reduction via glare is kinda like, I don't know. Many of those abilities and resistances comes from very specific-is game mechanics and versed stuff, but actually won't apply at all in real scenarios (Resistance to fire manip with a wet poncho? Smoking cigarettes curing poisons? A locket with the pic of a woman protecting against Fear, Empathic and Poison attacks?), I think we should draw a line between what should or shouldn't be taken seriously.

I agree with Saikou about some of the addition, so I won't comment on those.

The rest I will comment on later.

 

[Armorchompy]

Giving Yado stat reduction via glare is kinda like, I don't know. Many of those abilities and resistances comes from very specific-is game mechanics and versed stuff, but actually won't apply at all in real scenarios (Resistance to fire manip with a wet poncho? Smoking cigarettes curing poisons? A locket with the pic of woman protecting against Fear, Empathic and Poison attacks?), I think we should draw a line between what should or shouldn't be taken seriously.

I agree it's a bit silly, but don't we do the same for Pokèmon? For example, we count moves such as Growl or Tail Wag as statistics reduction, despite them being incredibly mundane in nature.

 

[Newendigo]

Yeah, I also question pokemon doing that, and literally any semi-RPG that uses the type of logic like "X character flex, enemies are induced with burning, paralysis, freezing, poison, confusion etc etc" with no explonation other than "X asserts his dominace".

 

[Antvasima]

@Saikou_The_Lewd_King

What do you think of Newendigo's evaluation.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, I also question pokemon doing that, and literally any semi-RPG that uses the type of logic like "X character flex, enemies are induced with burning, paralysis, freezing, poison, confusion etc etc" with no explonation other than "X asserts his dominace".

"It just works"

Still I'm not against you making a CRT but RN that's how we treat it.

Also I'd like to hear your take on the Bike Vehicular Mastery

 

[Newendigo]

Rather than mastery I would personally write it as "highly skilled biker" as he is seemingly able to win in a race without using both arms.

Dunno if that can be put in the profile, if it can't then I'm neutral whether is added or not, since is a uncontroversial ability anyway.

 

[Armorchompy]

I dunno, I feel like being able to take a bike off jumps and not lose balance while tackling multiple people while steering it with your teeth is a superhuman level of mastery.

 

[Antvasima]

Saikou seems to be missing. Should we go with Newendigo's evaluation then?

 

[Schwxnz]

Most of these seem very reasonable. Mid Regen for Brad, Teleportation for Nern and Limited Resurrection as a whole are not legit, though.

Regarding Type 2 Immo for Brad-

I really don't see how this isn't legit when he survived several arrows that clearly pierced through his skin and afterwards fought against Rando and endured strikes from the latter that stabbed through his chest and targetted his heart.

Regarding Buzzo-

I think we should grant him "Possibly Resistance to [...]" and clarify that his mutant self gets affected by most of them, which makes it iffy.

Regarding the AP upgrade-

As Saikou said, the calc needs to get reevaluated, but from what I can tell, it doesn't seem to have any issues and TNT having its own 9-A feat further solidifies the upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

So should what has been accepted here be applied?

 

[Newendigo]

The additions would be...

• Brad and all party members
Healing: Perfume can bring back men from fainting instantly.
Purification (Type 3): Cigarettes heal poison and Bottles of Water cure hungover, burning, weird, scared and confusion effects
Poison Manipulation: Bottle of Dirty Water have 70% Chance of inducing poison
Fragrance Manipulation: Nuggets have 100% Chance to cause Stink
Explosion Generation: via TNT
Resistance to Poison Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation and Fear Manipulation: with the Locket

If They wear Ponchos
Resistance to Fire Manipulation: with the Damp Poncho
Resistance to Water Manipulation: with the Rain Poncho

• Brad
Chi Manipulation, Rando should have his energy manip replaced with this ability aswell.
Pain Tolerance: Can shrug off getting shot
Vehicular Mastery: (Motorcycle and Bulldozer)
Immortality (Type 2) via surviving several arrows through his skull and Rando's "stab through your chest"

He should probably have a mutant key, he would have Mid Regen via regenerating from several arrows through his skull

• Buddy
Sleep Manipulation: Sleep Bomb: A smoke bomb that contains sleeping powder.
Poison Manipulation: Leech Bomb: A smoke bomb that contains poison powder.
Healing: Via Mend
Fire Manipulation and Explosion Generation: Via Diesel F. Bomb and TNT
Statistics Amplification: via Joy, Brad already has this

• Rando
Healing: via Rando Rations

• Buzzo
Statistics Amplification and Healing: He turned into a Joy Mutant, so he must have taken Joy
Possibly Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Poison Manipulation and Sound Manipulation: Because Buzzo was suppose to be impossible to defeat, he state resists all damage dealing effects, Demon X should also have this
Resistance to Sleep Manipulation in his Joy Mutant key (To be added).

• Dr. Yado
Statistics Reduction: Via Glare
Resistance to Sleep Manipulation: Unaffected by Buddy's Sleep Bombs

• Terry Hints
4th Wall Awareness: Enables Pain Mode, Shows awareness to the controls in his Hints

• Han Tsunami
Levitation
Resistance to Poison Manipulation and Water Manipulation: he state resists poison and water attacks do half the damage to him

• RT
Poison Manipulation: via Bag of Yuck
Fragrance Manipulation: Stench: A stench so strong, you can physically carry it around. (In game description of his Accessory

• Yazan Barghouti
Gets Upgraded to Brad's Tier

• Bloodiest Wolf
Flight
Pressure points: via Deer Horn
Possibly soul manipulation: via Howling Gyser
Statistics Amplification: via Peer (Han tsunami has this)
Resistance to Poison Manipulation: state resists poison

----

All characters will be upgraded to 9-A and Hypersonic via this calc.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, I think Dr. Yado should get Unknown ratings since, correct me if i'm wrong, the stats on his profile are those of his Joy Mutant

 

[Antvasima]

The suggested changes are probably fine.

 

[Armorchompy]

The additions would be...

Brad: Vehicular Mastery: (Motorcycle and Bulldozer)
Immortality (Type 2) via surviving several arrows through his skull and Rando's "stab through your chest"

I remember Saikou disagreeing with these. I mean I think disagreeing with the Motorcycle is kinda strange considering he pulls something on the same level as olympic off-road motorcycle races but with both of his arms chopped off, but still

 

[Schwxnz]

We will need further input of his for these two additions, but the others should generally be fine to add. Although, as said before, the calc needs to get reevaluated first.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to the calculation that you need evaluated? I can ask for help from our calc group afterwards.

 

[Schwxnz]

This is the calculation that we were talking about.

 

[Antvasima]

This is the calculation that we were talking about.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr._Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @KGiffoni

Would any of you be willing to take a look at it please?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What opinion did you need on that? Just an evaluation? I only ask because A. I just woke up and B. it's ancient.

 

[Schwxnz]

We need an reevaluation because the calc has more or less been accepted back in 2017 but the upgrade has never been applied.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Made a comment with my personal corrections. Namely, using the mass of the head rather than the full body and a slight correction on the speed of sound used. My calc still has Wall level results.

 

[Schwxnz]

Thank you for your help. Even though the feat is 9-B, it can still be used to upgrade the cast to Hypersonic, right?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Would full-body-mass be used if he throws himself?

 

[Antvasima]

I updated the blog with Bambu's version.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Thank you for your help. Even though the feat is 9-B, it can still be used to upgrade the cast to Hypersonic, right?

I have no issue with the Mach 5 speed, that is correct.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Would full-body-mass be used if he throws himself?

It would, that changes it significantly.

Adjusted the calc, 1.299e8 Joules, Small Building level. Assuming this isn't Fire Manip, of course.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd say due to the ambiguity of the situation it should be a "likely" or a "possibly", if the calc is accepted

 

[Antvasima]

Do I need to update the version of your calculation that I copy-pasted into the blog, or did you already handle that?

 

[Schwxnz]

I'd say due to the ambiguity of the situation it should be a "likely" or a "possibly", if the calc is accepted

The original calc has an additonal section dedicated to debunking the notion of Rage catching in fire via Fire Manip.

"He catches in fire mid-air out of Fire Manipulation"

No. Unlike all fire manipulators in Olathe, Rage never showed the capacity to directly control fire. If you do analyse his moveset, you'll notice that all Fire-damage dealing moves are based around him doing some form of headbutt while his head catches in fire mid-air. He never once did anything like throwing fireballs, spontaneously igniting his arms or legs in fire or even emitted flames from his body. To assume he's a fire manipulator, one'd need to assume he only uses fire manipulation for a single type of move, while he is in mid-air.

"But in LISA there are several fire manipulators"

So what? Just because most people control fire, it doesn't mean that all of them must do so. Also, just because one manipulates fire, doesn't necessarily means that he can't catch in fire out of friction.

Also, LISA characters have shown to be able to dodge explosions from several sources, something that further supports this speed.

So, it should be fine, assuming that the calc gets accepted.

Do I need to update the version of your calculation that I copy-pasted into the blog, or did you already handle that?

Bambu has already done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Bambu has already done so.

Okay. Sorry. Never mind then.

 

[Schwxnz]

Don't worry about it, it's alright.

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage3245 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Therefir @TheRustyOne @Jasonsith

Would any of you be willing to evaluate this?

Hypersonic Headbutts

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Armorchompy]

The original calc has an additonal section dedicated to debunking the notion of Rage catching in fire via Fire Manip.

"He catches in fire mid-air out of Fire Manipulation"

No. Unlike all fire manipulators in Olathe, Rage never showed the capacity to directly control fire. If you do analyse his moveset, you'll notice that all Fire-damage dealing moves are based around him doing some form of headbutt while his head catches in fire mid-air. He never once did anything like throwing fireballs, spontaneously igniting his arms or legs in fire or even emitted flames from his body. To assume he's a fire manipulator, one'd need to assume he only uses fire manipulation for a single type of move, while he is in mid-air.

Fair enough, but it might just be that he works it into his combat style and that's it.

"But in LISA there are several fire manipulators"

So what? Just because most people control fire, it doesn't mean that all of them must do so. Also, just because one manipulates fire, doesn't necessarily means that he can't catch in fire out of friction.

That... I don't really see how this is an argument. It's only proving the possibility that it might be speed, but it's not in any way proving it has to be.

Also, LISA characters have shown to be able to dodge explosions from several sources, something that further supports this speed.

Dodging explosions isn't that impressive- you just need to move out of the way of the throw, not outpace the explosion.

I'm not against the speed stat, I just think none of this proves it's done by speed.

 

[Schwxnz]

I honestly don't see anything suggesting that the feat is done by Fire Manip. Rage is never shown to have the ability to control fire and him catching in fire mid-air is almost certainly rather a result of his speed than anything else. Him being shown to be hyperactive kind of supports this- in fiction, hyperactivity gets associated with extraordinarily high speeds sometimes.

But I am willing to accept them being "Supersonic+, likely Hypersonic"