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Lille Barro Small Upgrade

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HokageMangaVox

HokageMangaVox

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Lille is the leader of the star knights, [1] Yhwach's most powerful division, and the first Quincy. It comes to reason that he should not be weaker than his own men. We also known that his X-axis power doesn't increase his DC, it only increases his Hax. The calc below should put him at Small Country level.

Each City is 44.801 kilometres across, and 1.561 kilometres deep (5121 feet + 4.693 inches) with pixel scaling,[2]they are bigger than the smallest country in the world. [3]

There were five of them, and one of his Holy Arrows was enough to blast each one of them in half:[4]

They were made by Shutara, but so was the palace they are standing on. So, they're solid. Otherwise they would had notice the difference earlier.

Thoughts?
 
But hes not as badass as Gerard... but all seriousness, I don't see why not, it would make sense in a way for him to scale up to the Miracle
 
What are you using as your "measuring stick" for the pixel scaling? Also, you don't seriously think that destroying Vatican CITY would be small country level, right?

Him scaling to Gerard might make sense, but he could just be superior due to hax and skill, as opposed to actual AP and durability, since his ability makes both unnecessary.
 
The calc of the cities was already done and accepted.

Vatican City is register as the smallest Country in the world, and the 5 cities are twice if not bigger than that.

Feats + scaling = Hax irrelevant.
 
I'm not questioning the validity of the calc, I just want to know so I can understand it.

Vatican City is inside of Rome, it's only around small city sized at best, if we used it as the minimum for small country level, most of tier 7 would qualify.

Scaling a character who's strong because of hax to a character who's strong because of power is faulty. Being a leader doesn't make you stronger than your subordinates, Lille has better fighting skill, intelligence, decision making, and various other leadership skills than Gerard, and with his hax and intangibility he's a more dangerous opponent regardless of AP and durability.
 
The size of Vatican city in your point of view, doesn't match the numbers or what it actually is officially. Therefore, is irrelevant.

Neither is been scale to hax, just AP.

The last part is considered NLF here, so is irrelevant as well. In other words, not an argument point.
 
Just looked, and Vatican City is less than a square kilometer in size, in comparison let's look at the area of a random small town like, say, Accord New York. Accord New York, one of the smallest towns in the state, is 8.78 square kilometers, practically a giant compared to Vatican City, this isn't "my point of view", it IS the numbers. Vatican City is just tiny. Countries are just political entities, they don't have to be big, they just usually are.

As I pointed out, he has hax, he doesn't need AP to be superior to Gerard in fighting ability, that's not NLF, that's what hax is. You also didn't respond to the fact that leadership=/=strength, there are plenty of attributes to leadership that Gerard just doesn't have, but Lille does.

Also, again, I'd like to ask what you used to find the size of the pixels in the calc, just cause it's a bit unclear in the calc.
 
Look at Pitcairn is 47.3 km, Norfolk Island is just 36.5. Vatican City is not the only small country i can compare them to, remember we are talking about small countries, not a Country. Huge difference.

His feats shows otherwise, you said he more dangerous regardless of AP and durability which fall under NLF. If we go with your statement Gerard is still stronger since Lille can't kill him, however if Lille brakes Hoffnug he dies. Intelligence does apply to leadership that is obvious to anyone. And as we saw Lille, and Gerard's intelligence weren't that fall apart from each other, from what was shown. I would even dare to say that Gerard had more brain than Lille, he was told about his opponents powers, and dedided to kill himself. He even admitted to remember that he was told, after it. I can't blame him, he must hat regenerated a bird brain, after Shunsui blow his head off.

I didn't made the calc, and the size was already calc in another scan and the distance was the same. You can find it on Lille's page.
 
Pitcairn island is smaller than Washington DC: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Pitcairn_Islands

Countries are political entities, not giant land masses, there is literally no minimum size for them. If we used the smallest countries as a baseline for low 6B most if not all of tier 7 would be low 6B, which they obviously aren't. This is no different from islands or mountains being smaller than the requirement for island or mountain level.

Hax is an ability which allows one to contend with those who surpass them in stats. Lille Barro has hax, therefore he doesn't need AP to be more dangerous than Gerard, which is what I said. As I said there are a lot of different factors that contribute to leadership, even if he's stronger or more intelligent, that doesn't mean he's a better leader, more trusted by Yhwach, has better hax, or is a more skilled fighter.

Oh, my bad, sorry about that, and thanks.
 
What of it. What is the required size to be a country size in this wiki? Link.

Those factors don't applied when measuring someone's feats as they are unqualified. So, is irrelevant, and we can't assume any of it.
 
Based on quick plug-in of numbers into a calculator, if you fragment it, using the average height of land above sea level, it would take the destruction of over 622,000 km^2 to reach small country level.

Yes, but this isn't a feat, it's saying that he's stronger than someone, without any actual scaling from fights, because he holds a higher rank. Leadership skill, hax, and trust of their leader all play a massive roll in his rank, unless we're directly told it's determined by fighting ability without letting hax come into play.
 
However that number isn't the one use here, i believe, because the seireitei calc was calculated at 40,000 to 320,000 as Country size, and was accepted.

Oh, I was talking about the cities, sorry about that. My point is he is the leader for a reason, and if you look at their hax and weakness in both pages, Gerard could easily defeat Lille with his own hax, and given that Lille is weaker than him it would be easier. In what was shown their intelligence is about the same, and Gerard acts hostile around him. The only thing blocking him from killing him is that Yhwach had forbidden fighting amount themselves.
 
That number was just for fragmentation, violent fragmentation is about 1/8 of that and pulverization 1/25. The point I was making though is that destroying something that by real world standards is the size of a small country is/can be very far from reaching the energy requirements of a small country buster on this site.

The cities I have no problem with, but if the calc was accepted, I assume there was a discussion, and some reason why only the island level part was used, but I wasn't there, so I wouldn't know.

Gerard could only deal with Lille's intangibility if Lille shot the X-axis at his sword, unless he has some hax I'm not thinking of. And either way, if their ranking was based on overall fighting ability, Yhwach would likely base it on how they would compare with enemies, not other quincies. Who beats who isn't important, it's who's more dangerous to their enemies, and I'd argue that durability negating makes Lille the more dangerous of the two.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
That number was just for fragmentation, violent fragmentation is about 1/8 of that and pulverization 1/25. The point I was making though is that destroying something that by real world standards is the size of a small country is/can be very far from reaching the energy requirements of a small country buster on this site.
The cities I have no problem with, but if the calc was accepted, I assume there was a discussion, and some reason why only the island level part was used, but I wasn't there, so I wouldn't know.

Gerard could only deal with Lille's intangibility if Lille shot the X-axis at his sword, unless he has some hax I'm not thinking of. And either way, if their ranking was based on overall fighting ability, Yhwach would likely base it on how they would compare with enemies, not other quincies. Who beats who isn't important, it's who's more dangerous to their enemies, and I'd argue that durability negating makes Lille the more dangerous of the two.
Click to expand...
The fact that the two are even comparable should be enough to scale one to the other though tbh.
 
I agree to some degree with your first two points. However, why wasn't considered will be explain by the mods, I am sure. The third thing you posted is irrevelant, when Gerard won't die to the X-axis and will make him stronger. The sword of Gerard can instantly replicate what Nana'o sword did to a degree by breaking his halo, and reflecting the X-axis back at him. Your original point was that Lille's hax was better and stronger than Gerard. When is actually the opposite.
 
@Perilous not if one is comparable thanks to hax and not power.

@Hokage Gerard can only reflect it if Lille shoots his sword, he wouldn't do that. My point is that Lille is more suited as a leader and a more dangerous enemy, not that he can defeat Gerard in one on one combat. These are two very different things. One implies that Lille can defeat stronger opponents than Gerard, which due to his durability negating and intangibility he can, the other implies he can best Gerard in one on one combat, which thanks to Gerard's regen he likely can't.
 
I'm not sure if we should use Vatican City as the benchmark for Small Country, given its unusually small size relative to other small countries like Japan.

You're going to have to ask the calc teams about the benchmarks we use for Small Country level and Country level, but I don't think this is going to fly.
 
@Saikou

Yup, as BlahBlah said, it's around a half square kilometer in size. Major cities like New York are almost nine square kilometers, meaning that it's 18x smaller than the benchmark cities we use for City level.
 
I also definitely do not think that we should start to mess with the tiering system. The Vatican is only Small City level by our standards.

Anyway, regarding the original post, you can ask LordAizenSama for input.
 
@Blahblah

Nope. Sasuke got likely planet level via scaling to naruto, even though the only reason he is equal with naruto is due to his hax.

But I guess everyone just loves to be picky about everything when it comes to bleach
 
@Perilouss no, just no. There's so much wrong with that statement. Sasuke has fought evenly with various forms of Naruto, fought against enemies who are Naruto's equal, helped in the creation of the moon, and is in general meant to be Naruto's equal and rival. Sasuke barely even has durability negation, and it doesn't even work on Naruto. Not to mention neither of them are even planet level.

That's not at all similar to this situation, where Lille might canonically be a superior fighter to Gerard, and even then it is likely because of hax.
 
Hokage, I've already been over this. What hax can Gerard easily kill Lille with? His sword? Lille wouldn't shoot it, which Gerard would need him to do. And that doesn't matter anyway. Lille can beat stronger opponents than Gerard thanks to durability negation, while Gerard can only beat opponents of his AP level. This is what matters, Yhwach wouldn't care which of them would win in a fight. If he cares about fighting ability over trust/experience/any other leadership qualities, he will care about who can beat stronger opponents and bigger threats.
 
How will Lille attack him? He needs to shoot, and he can easily block with his sword. Which prove Lille hax sucks since he won't be able to use it, unless he wants to kill himself.

The point is, no matter what Lille does, he can't kill Gerard because of his powers. He can even make the sword the size of a skyscrapper and have Lille shoot it. Easy as cake.

Also, if we already "been throught this" why do you mention the leadership again? Because i didn't mention it above, so you're contradicting your own statment. I already set my mind about it.
 
Throughout this discussion, you've been arguing that Lille must be comparable to Gerard in AP, because he is the leader, therefore he should be able to beat him in a fight (which I disagree with). You just said that Gerard can beat Lille, in which case you are either contradicting your past statements (which I assumed you were not doing, but hey feel free to prove me wrong), or implying that Lille can win in a fight through some means other than hax, the only indicator of which is his role as a leader.

You're assuming that Gerard is fast enough to easily react to Lille's bullets, while Lille and especially his bullets, are very fast even by Bleach standards. And again none of this matters, because who beats who isn't important, since they have no reason to fight each other. All that matters is who can bring down stronger opponents.
 
First, i'm talking in hax fight, which was already stablish. Apparently, you may had forgotten.

Second, despite his size he is prettt fast to even dodge attacks from Kenpachi, Byakuya, the captains, the vizards and Hitsugata despite his size. Plus, both have the same speed.

Third, who can bring down stronger opponents, doesn't apply to scaling nor does if they fight each other. None the less, Gerard's power basically is "get blown to pieces, grows stronger and bigger", while lille's powers are, "You can't block or hurt me, but you can dodge." Yep, Lille's powers aren't great to fight stronger opponents, since he got beaten by a fodder through PIS, and Gerard was kill off by Yhwach. Because he was unkillable.
 
@Blahblah

So what lol? Still doesn't change the fact that sasuke is equal with naruto thanks to his hax advantage. Because I really hope you don't believe that naruto has just as much and as many hax as sasuke does. And in the description for likely small planet level for AP on Sasuke's profile, it says its because he scales from naruto.
 
Gerard and Lille being in the same speed tier doesn't mean a lot here, because as I said Lille is depicted within the series as one of the faster characters easily dodging surprise attacks from Shunsui, and his X-axis appeared instant even to the 0 division, Gerard is only depicted as above average for the arc speedwise.

You're the one trying to get this to apply for scaling, not me. I'm saying that they shouldn't scale to each other because Lille's only considered superior/more dangerous within the verse because of his hax.
 
Really, did you missed when Gerard fought the zero division. Also, their profiles say otherwise.

When did i said that we should powerscale them, base on who can bring down stronger opponents or by fighting each other? That is nonsense, and something you brought up above. I didn't mention neither in my reply. Do you have evidence for that besides your opinion, because we can do this until the page reaches 200 posts.
 
Again, Gerard fought evenly with characters of this level of speed, so he's above average, Lille's attacks were too fast for them to react, and he could dodge point blank surprise attacks from his blind spot from a character of this speed. The profiles only list their speed tier, which almost everyone significant in the arc possesses, not how fast they're depicted compared to other characters within their speed tier. Bleach has a massive scaling line of characters within one speed tier and scaled to one calc being superior to each other, and Lille is portrayed as being quite high in that scaling line.

You said "He should not be weaker than his own men" in the OP. I said that that's a position not necessarily decided by power, but by how dangerous of a fighter he was, then, in the 8th reply, you started bringing up who would win in a fight saying "Gerard is still stronger since Lille can't kill him, however if Lille breaks Hofnung he dies", thus implying that since Lille couldn't win by hax, he must get his ranking by being stronger.
 
So, you have no argument in the speed department. Since you didn't rebute what I wrote. You basically said the same thing again.

What does that have to do with what you imply above? You couldn't find where i said it. Why? Because i didn't.
 
@Perilouss you don't get how this works do you… Sasuke is Naruto's equal physically, they matched blows, Lille has never even been stated as Gerard's equal.

@Hokage No, I explained how Lille demonstrated that he's fast (especially his attacks) compared to MHS+ characters, while Gerard is just above average amongst them. You just said Gerard fought the zero division, that's not even an argument.

You were the one who brought up who wins in a fight, and who said they should scale to each other. I never said that you said one should scale because they're more dangerous in a fight. I said that the leader position doesn't mean he scales after you said it does, and that if the position is based on fighting ability, it just means Lille is more dangerous, not stronger.
 
So, you're saying that Shunsui >>Zero squad, Lille,Yamamoto, Elites, Ichigo, and Yhwach in speed. Because Shunsui could barely dodge his attacks. Eh, no.

Don't denied.. You said, "You're the one trying to get this to apply for scaling, not me." you imply it to the fight. Which i already told you twice that it wasn't.
 
I agree with Blah. Being the Leader doesn't mean he scales, especially with the amount of hax Lille has that can render opponents ap and dura useless.
 
Okay. Thank you for settling this. So should we close this thread?
 
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