Liliana Vess Cleanup

[WeeklyBattles]

Not much to say, reworked Liliana's profile here, just figured i should make a crt before applying it

 

[Hasty12345]

I think it looks way better, I agree with the update

 

[Moritzva]

Looks reasonable, but before I give hard affirmation, could you link evidence to some of the more major changes, if any? I have issues recognizing differences between two text blobs so I can’t see much.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

It says Lili is Low 6-B from scaling to Tezz, but Tezz is 6-B to possibly 4-A. Unless your planning on revising Tezzeret, there might be a problem here.

Rest seem fine.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

and the speed seems a little wonky for pre-mending, but eh

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah i know, its not revising scaling its just cleaning up the profile itself, tier revisons are coming later

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

k

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[Sera_EX]

Looks fine to me.

 

[Wokistan]

At a glance, she didn't really "significantly" damage emrakul although the tiering's the same either way.

I can try to go through this, do you happen to have a changelog? Nbd if you didn't keep one

 

[Wokistan]

Here's my problems so far.

Spoiler: AP

Can we get some sort of source on Ob Nixilis being demonized by the veil due to lack of power?
Just generally, the AP section lacks sources a lot. Especially with her so often just using dura neg spells we'd want to source her Low 6-B chain veil feats. Her specialty isn't exactly destructive blasts, after all. Higher end zombies like the god eternals may also be nice to have a thing for.
Overpowering Bolas control isn't really an AP feat and shouldn't be listed there.
She didn't "significantly" harm Emrakul, she just did enough to Emrakul that Emrakul actually noticed her in particular and bothered with a direct attack.

I overall don't disagree with the ratings here, but that's due to my added context. Ideally, a profile should be able to defend itself even to people who aren't familiar with the verse.

Spoiler: Striking Strength

Why is oldwalker Liliana's striking strength universal?

Spoiler: Durability

Does she have durability feats that aren't off magic/Chain Veil? Actual physical durability that high doesn't seem correct, especially with normal weapons being portrayed as threatening before if she didn't defend against them. Similar issue for the oldwalker durability. Universe creation doesn't scale to physicals, but I wouldn't doubt her magic defenses being that high.

Basically just "why dura scaled to physicals instead of defensive magic"

Spoiler: P&A

Base:
Superhuman physicals FRA, since if it's only speed I guess we'd put that.
As a general rule, there's a similar sourcing thing going on. Just link to the cards giving a lot of these abilities, and excerpts of the story from story ones. I'm pretty sure most of the abilities are fine and I'm sure you got them from somewhere, so it shouldn't be too bad to do. It has been done for several powers, which is good. I think some of the unsourced powers are off the old version I made, so I can try and find where I got them from.
I disagree with the morality manipulation, but I also disagree with that even being a separate page now that I see it. She can control their minds and bodies as is. Enslaving them is just an effect of the necromancy as opposed to a new power.
Chain Veil:
Gonna want a source on that soul thing, since I'm not familiar with that particular wording.
Oldwalker:
Would recommend linking the plane creation quote, since it is that one quote that provides that set of abilities.

You could make the spells link to their cards but that can really be done whenever by anyone. Low priority since they're already explained.

Overall, the main issue I have is sourcing. I agree with most of the additions, it's just best to make the files able to stand up to questioning themselves.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At a glance, she didn't really "significantly" damage emrakul although the tiering's the same either way.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"AP"
Can we get some sort of source on Ob Nixilis being demonized by the veil due to lack of power?

Dreams of the Damned

The demon Ob Nixilis prepares to set the next part of his plan in motion.

magic.wizards.com

Catching Up | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

Jace Beleren has made many promises and taken on many problems—and those unfinished puzzles tug at his mind. Some, perhaps, more than others.

magic.wizards.com

Just generally, the AP section lacks sources a lot. Especially with her so often just using dura neg spells we'd want to source her Low 6-B chain veil feats. Her specialty isn't exactly destructive blasts, after all. Higher end zombies like the god eternals may also be nice to have a thing for.

Overpowering Bolas control isn't really an AP feat and shouldn't be listed there.

Puppets | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

While her allies are caught up in the revolt, Liliana Vess has just one purpose in mind: to find her old enemy Tezzeret...and kill him.

magic.wizards.com

War of the Spark: Ravnica

War of the Spark: Ravnica (previously advertised as Ravnica: War of the Spark) is a novel written by Greg Weisman, that was published by Del Rey in April 2019. The release coincided with War of the Spark, the third of a series of three consecutive sets set on Ravnica. This was the first major...

mtg.fandom.com

She didn't "significantly" harm Emrakul, she just did enough to Emrakul that Emrakul actually noticed her in particular and bothered with a direct attack.

The Promised End | MAGIC: THE GATHERING

Liliana and her zombie hordes have bought the Gatewatch precious time to devise a plan to defeat Emrakul. But can anything the Gatewatch do topple the most powerful foe they have yet faced?

magic.wizards.com

Why is oldwalker Liliana's striking strength universal?

Dunno

Does she have durability feats that aren't off magic/Chain Veil? Actual physical durability that high doesn't seem correct, especially with normal weapons being portrayed as threatening before if she didn't defend against them. Similar issue for the oldwalker durability. Universe creation doesn't scale to physicals, but I wouldn't doubt her magic defenses being that high.

Almost all of them are yes, she has taken physical hits from bloodlusted Garruk and her contract demons as well as physically taken magic attacks from Tezzeret and Chandra

Base:
Superhuman physicals FRA, since if it's only speed I guess we'd put that.

As a general rule, there's a similar sourcing thing going on. Just link to the cards giving a lot of these abilities, and excerpts of the story from story ones. I'm pretty sure most of the abilities are fine and I'm sure you got them from somewhere, so it shouldn't be too bad to do. It has been done for several powers, which is good. I think some of the unsourced powers are off the old version I made, so I can try and find where I got them from.

Everything except like stat manips are from the story but are backed up by cards

I disagree with the morality manipulation, but I also disagree with that even being a separate page now that I see it. She can control their minds and bodies as is. Enslaving them is just an effect of the necromancy as opposed to a new power.

Meh, fair

Chain Veil:
Gonna want a source on that soul thing, since I'm not familiar with that particular wording.

Oldwalker:
Would recommend linking the plane creation quote, since it is that one quote that provides that set of abilities.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Bump

 

[Wokistan]

The ob thing doesn't say he got ****** over due to being weak, it just says the Chain Veil is bad for its users. Liliana's own statement also indicates that her not being ruined by it isn't due to power, hypothesizing maybe it's due to her correct necromancy or managing to curse Garruk instead.

I'm not seeing how the bolas bit implies AP based body control, although Emrakul works either way.

If we can get dura to link to sources or something that works fine.

I can see about looking for card based powers, since those are probably unsourced due to me.

Soul curse works.

Good to see we got the plane creation quotes.



I think the file's good to go if you've got it all linked up and stuff. Card links can be a more gradual process, since her spells are already all linked with their names and descriptions.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Fair

Because she managed to overpower his magic with her own

Ye, she took hits from Tezzeret and Garruk in those scans

I already did the card based powers