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After viewing the this discussio I have edited my arguments into attacking points that were made in that discussion. I initally made this post because I found that the current speed feat (which is scaled to Zuko reacting to Azula) to be incredibly inconsistent with the rest of other Avatar feats, and furthermore it would assume that every other speed feat is relative to lightning feats, which I found to be reaching. It seems like an outlier that throws every other reaction feat out the window. I find that the thesis made while may prove that the lightning present is electricity, it is not the same as Cloud-to-Ground Lightning.
1. Failure to differentiate
The first claim that is made is that all the other elements are all physically real and bent the same way. This is an association fallacy. Out of all the elements, fire has been shown to be an exception on how it is bent. All the other require a source of the physical elements present in order to bend them. I.e Earth-Benders require some form of earth to perform bending. Water-benders require water to be present in something in order to bend it. Air-Benders quite obviously bend the air around them.
Fire however, is the only element that does not actually require it's physical source to be present in order to be bent. The only source it is drawn from is the sun, however, this is still vastly different from how all the other elements are bent. Firebending also seems to be unique in it's own way on how each user can generate it's properties differently. I.e. Blue vs yellow fire. It's quite clearly user-generated element in contrast to the other elements. If fire can be bent and have vastly different properties, why shouldn't we say the same for lightning-bending?
The assertion that the lightning is real because all the other elements are real is absurd. Fire, the element that is needed to lightning-bend is already different from the rest of the elements in how it's bent.
2. Contrapositio
The argument claim #2 makes here, isn't wrong at all. It is actually a very strong and compelling point in proving that what fire-benders are bending is actual electricity. However, while this is a good case in building up that it may be cloud-to-ground lightning, it doesn't prove that it is actual lightning by itself. All lightning may be electricity, but not all electricity is lightning. It's a strong foundation for building an argument, but it doesn't actually prove the argument by itself. The same argument can also be applied to claim #3, #4, #5. All of these claims are essentially the same in that what fire-benders bend is similar to actual electricity, which is fine. But it doesn't show any proof that the electricity they are bending is actual cloud-to-ground lightning. The only argument that's being proven here is that they are bending electricity. In fact, in claim #3 the user actually refers to an anti feat here which has been calced at I believe sub mach 12 speeds. The user also admitted to the incident but didn't post the actual footage of it happening nor the calc. Only something that I found mentioned through the replies.
Nothing in the intial argument of the Discussion actually proves that what the fire-benders bend is actual cloud-to-ground lightning. All it proves is that it is very, very similar to electricity, which anyone could make such a blatant observation such as that. In fact, in the case of actual natural lightning being redirected, it's been shown to be much, much slower. So why is it now that it is assumed that in every case of lightning-bending that it's been treated as actual cloud-to-ground lightning speeds?
I understand that there's an argument of fiction and what not. But only using a feat (which isn't even proven to be at a certain speed) and only applying that feat in seperate isolated instances (where lightning-bending is performed) completely disregards every other speed feat that is shown to be consistent with each other. See here, here, and here It also assumes that everything else in the Avatar verse is also this ridculously fast which in turn makes everything else inconsistent.
Just because something behaves like electricity, doesn't suddenly make what they shoot out 440,000 m/s. I already did some loose math below on the steps Zuko took to block Azula's lightning. His movement speed is so ridiculous and it would assume that everything else would be faster, and the planet would have to be the size of Jupiter (I'm exaggerating).
1. Failure to differentiate
The first claim that is made is that all the other elements are all physically real and bent the same way. This is an association fallacy. Out of all the elements, fire has been shown to be an exception on how it is bent. All the other require a source of the physical elements present in order to bend them. I.e Earth-Benders require some form of earth to perform bending. Water-benders require water to be present in something in order to bend it. Air-Benders quite obviously bend the air around them.
Fire however, is the only element that does not actually require it's physical source to be present in order to be bent. The only source it is drawn from is the sun, however, this is still vastly different from how all the other elements are bent. Firebending also seems to be unique in it's own way on how each user can generate it's properties differently. I.e. Blue vs yellow fire. It's quite clearly user-generated element in contrast to the other elements. If fire can be bent and have vastly different properties, why shouldn't we say the same for lightning-bending?
The assertion that the lightning is real because all the other elements are real is absurd. Fire, the element that is needed to lightning-bend is already different from the rest of the elements in how it's bent.
2. Contrapositio
The argument claim #2 makes here, isn't wrong at all. It is actually a very strong and compelling point in proving that what fire-benders are bending is actual electricity. However, while this is a good case in building up that it may be cloud-to-ground lightning, it doesn't prove that it is actual lightning by itself. All lightning may be electricity, but not all electricity is lightning. It's a strong foundation for building an argument, but it doesn't actually prove the argument by itself. The same argument can also be applied to claim #3, #4, #5. All of these claims are essentially the same in that what fire-benders bend is similar to actual electricity, which is fine. But it doesn't show any proof that the electricity they are bending is actual cloud-to-ground lightning. The only argument that's being proven here is that they are bending electricity. In fact, in claim #3 the user actually refers to an anti feat here which has been calced at I believe sub mach 12 speeds. The user also admitted to the incident but didn't post the actual footage of it happening nor the calc. Only something that I found mentioned through the replies.
Nothing in the intial argument of the Discussion actually proves that what the fire-benders bend is actual cloud-to-ground lightning. All it proves is that it is very, very similar to electricity, which anyone could make such a blatant observation such as that. In fact, in the case of actual natural lightning being redirected, it's been shown to be much, much slower. So why is it now that it is assumed that in every case of lightning-bending that it's been treated as actual cloud-to-ground lightning speeds?
I understand that there's an argument of fiction and what not. But only using a feat (which isn't even proven to be at a certain speed) and only applying that feat in seperate isolated instances (where lightning-bending is performed) completely disregards every other speed feat that is shown to be consistent with each other. See here, here, and here It also assumes that everything else in the Avatar verse is also this ridculously fast which in turn makes everything else inconsistent.
Just because something behaves like electricity, doesn't suddenly make what they shoot out 440,000 m/s. I already did some loose math below on the steps Zuko took to block Azula's lightning. His movement speed is so ridiculous and it would assume that everything else would be faster, and the planet would have to be the size of Jupiter (I'm exaggerating).
