Let Spite Move You Faster

[Tllmbrg]

Due to Bambu's desire to spite anime we have this calc approved
So all 9th level and above monsters get Relativistic Combat speed while those with Evasion get FTL

It's gonna be a pain to edit all the pages but for the sake of beating anime we shall!

 

[Andytrenom]

As an agent of the weeb god, I reject this revision

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It should also be noted those with Relativistic also get FTL reactions due to still being able to hit the monks and rogues and such, its just harder.

Either way, I approve, obviously, but we'll need a rather long list of pages affected by this, since everyone in Tier 8 and up gets this. Preferably also get Qawsed at the least since he's the other big D&D staff member and this is... a fairly major change.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think this is fine as the lore basically compares it to sunlight.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Personally I'm hesitant on accepting it. The first effect of the spell would be a SoL style attack, but that is not the one being dodged. It's the second effect, where upon death the caster is converted into energy and explodes in a 20 foot radius, which is what is being dodged by the target with a reflex feat.

In my view there's not a solid indication that the energy explosion is traveling at the speed of light, rather than at the speed of an explosion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We even talked about this before

Radiant energy seems most likely, which is an expy for light. I still think it's fine.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Okay so the list (Won't specify Keys outside one section):

All avatars and aspects of deities, demon lords, archdevils, Elder Evils and Slaadi Lords
All Elemental Princes, Abominations and the Cat Lord

From Humanoid Races:
All notable individuals outside Kithlord Thieraven, Azbara Jos, Dralmorrer Borngray, Frulam Mondath, Pharblex Splattergoo and The Mad Hermit
LeShay, Doppelganger, Centaur, Githyanki and Githzerai

From Aberrations:
All notable individuals
Aboleth, Mind Flayer, Beholder, Gibbering Mouther, Neh-Thalggu, Gibbering Orb, Hagunemnon and Grell

From Fey:
Verdant Prince and Hoary Hunter

From Magical Beasts/Monstrosity:
All notable individuals outside Gorthok, the Thunder Boar
Floating Eye, Nightmare, Guardian Naga, Spirit Naga, Rylkar, Werewolf, Gray Render, Frost Worm, Displacer Beast (Need to apply its own CRT as well), Prismasaurus, Sirrush, Behir, Kraken, Basilisk, Brachyurus and Tarrasque

From Outsiders:
All notable individuals outside Isti-Zar
All the Genies, Couatl, Inevitable, Avoral, Leonal, Hellhound, Formian, Modron, Ghaele, Yagnoloth, Hydroloth, Ultroloth, Nycaloth, Arcanaloth, Barbed Devil, Night Hag, Horned Devil, Pit Fiend, Bone Devil, The Worm of Minauros, Vrock, Retriever, Nalfeshnee, Marilith, Hezrou, Glabrezu, Bebilith, Balor, Empyrean, Trumpet Archon, Hound Archon, Solar, Planetar, Deva and Lamia

From Giants:
All notable individuals
Fomorian and Troll

From Undead:
All notable individuals
Hunefer, Lavawight, Shadow of the Void and Shape of Fire (Why they have the same image Bambu), Death Knight, Devourer, Ghoul, Angel of Decay, Blaspheme, Skeleton, Vitreous Drinker, Blood Amniote, Mummy, Bone Naga and Dream Vestige

From Animals:
Dire Rhinoceros and Mostodon

From Plants:
Plague Brush, Mu Spore and Elder Treant

From Vermins:
Devastation Vermin, Siege Crab, Thorciasid, Vermiurge and Knell Beetle

From Elementals:
Ember Guard and Galeb Duhr

From Oozes:
Bloodfire, Murderoid, Venom, Oblex and Genius Loci

From Constructs:
For notable individuals only The Undying Temple
Snow Golem, Brain Golem, Brass Golem, Umbral Blot, Eidolon and Helmed Horror

From Dragons:
Everyone there outside Faerie Dragon

 

[Qawsedf234]

We even talked about this before

I think I also disagreed with being used then. But I found some of the other SoL descriptions useable enough. Though they were at a much higher level.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not the case, though you may change your opinion. IIRC your stipulation was in regards to at what level people would scale- that being 8-C, despite this feat technically being achievable by higher-end 9-As.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Not sure which edition that spell is, but Evasion seems to be the 5e version. Really shouldn't cross scale abilities from different editions like this, imo. If the edition of the spell has a similar ability, that should be used, but the 5e Evasion shouldn't apply to it.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Not sure which edition that spell is, but Evasion seems to be the 5e version. Really shouldn't cross scale abilities from different editions like this, imo. If the edition of the spell has a similar ability, that should be used, but the 5e Evasion shouldn't apply to it.

well it is not really cross edition scaling. as 3.5 evasion does the same thing, and 4e version does the same thing as well. so evasion it basically just the same ability in every edition.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Looking up the 3.5 one, it does seem to be the same as Improved Evasion, but the 5e works one still works when you're unconscious and such.

If they're a thing it should be fine, but those versions should be linked instead of the 5e one to avoid confusion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not sure which edition that spell is, but Evasion seems to be the 5e version. Really shouldn't cross scale abilities from different editions like this, imo. If the edition of the spell has a similar ability, that should be used, but the 5e Evasion shouldn't apply to it.

5e, but Evasion exists in 3.5e as well. Source here.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I think I also disagreed with being used then. But I found some of the other SoL descriptions useable enough. Though they were at a much higher level.

So what are those?

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, as Qawsed pointed out, the lightspeed comes from the paladin radiating rather than the explosion itself (consider as an example, a light bumb that radiates light and then suddely explode, that does not mean the explosion itself is ls).

Also, how does the scaling works exactly? Like, a paladin requires to have a lv 14 to being able to cast this spell. The speed of the explosion itself is also variable, depending of the wisdom of the user, so is not like it have a fixed speed (the DC is minimum 16 going by requeriments, so even creatures of CR 2-4 have a fair chance to avoid it).

 

[Tllmbrg]

Also, how does the scaling works exactly? Like, a paladin requires to have a lv 14 to being able to cast this spell. The speed of the explosion itself is also variable, depending of the wisdom of the user, so is not like it have a fixed speed (the DC is minimum 16 going by requeriments, so even creatures of CR 2-4 have a fair chance to avoid it).

DC at best gives relative scale, but I really doubt that the speed aspect of the spell is gonna vary that much

 

[Qawsedf234]

speed aspect of the spell is gonna vary that much

Well the spell explosion isn't SoL, so that ultimately doesn't matter to much.

So what are those?

There's some 4e spells that are reflex save based that I think are legit.

 

[Dragonstitch]

there is also a level 5 spell sun shard which can be argued to be FTL speed and targets reflex. but like song of the new dawn is you plug the numbers into the light dodging formula you would only get below average human from it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@LephyrTheRevanchist gave a rather long list of spells, I can find another I s'pose

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Bump?

 

[Antoniofer]

I guess you just wait until Qwaser brings up the potential SoL feats, since that spell (more specifically, the explosion) does not seems to qualify as lightspeed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

There are others, I'm just looking for them in greater quantities. My post was a joke.

At the moment the lowest level spell that would qualify for SoL with a Reflex based dodge scales to High 8-Cs rather than 8-Cs like this spell. So I'm looking to see if there's anything lower.

 

[Dragonstitch]

so the 4e light speed feats got accepted. if we want to use these for speed stats and with the 4e to 5e level conversion which has 5e levels being 2/3s of 4e levels we would get.

level 2-7 would be Sub-Relativistic, with Sub-Relativistic+ reaction speed
level 8 would be Sub-Relativistic, with Relativistic reaction speed
level 9-12 would be Sub-Relativistic, with FTL+ reaction speed
level 13+ would be SoL, with FTL+ reaction speed
level 13+ with evasion would be FTL, with FTL+ reaction speed

 

[Qawsedf234]

level 9-12 would be Sub-Relativistic, with FTL+ reaction speed
level 13+ would be SoL, with FTL+ reaction speed
level 13+ with evasion would be FTL, with FTL+ reaction speed

I feel we could probably use these. I wanna say that attempting to upscale a level 2 Goblin to being Sub-Rel raises far more issues than it would answer.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just... give me a moment.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I've edited this to include other 3.5e spells I could find from the Spell Compendium with more solid Speed of Light shit. Anger of the Noonday Sun would give our Relativistic speeds to anyone in the High 8-C tiers and above. This also means we don't need to rely on 4e for speed, since 4e is known to be inconsistent in this regard.

 

[Dragonstitch]

to be fair when it comes to 4e speed feats there seems to be a lot more light speed stuff then say cloud to ground lightning. though at worst we could always just keep these for supporting feats.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I've edited this to include other 3.5e spells I could find from the Spell Compendium with more solid Speed of Light shit. Anger of the Noonday Sun would give our Relativistic speeds to anyone in the High 8-C tiers and above. This also means we don't need to rely on 4e for speed, since 4e is known to be inconsistent in this regard.

So my thoughts

Anger of the Noonday Sun
The important part here is who it effects. As said in the target section:

• Area: All sighted creatures within a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you

This along with some other quotes

• Any creature within the area of the spell that can see you

I think based on the descriptions the targets are reacting to the burst of light, but, are covering their eyes from the blast. So they're not moving 2.5 to 20 feet, but whatever their arm length is to cover their eyes or to turn their head away in time

Moonfire

The only part here is that I'm not 100% sure if its light or if its bright fire. But that's really it, otherwise I don't have much of a problem with it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So my thoughts

Anger of the Noonday Sun
The important part here is who it effects. As said in the target section:

• Area: All sighted creatures within a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you

This along with some other quotes

• Any creature within the area of the spell that can see you

I think based on the descriptions the targets are reacting to the burst of light, but, are covering their eyes from the blast. So they're not moving 2.5 to 20 feet, but whatever their arm length is to cover their eyes or to turn their head away in time

Moonfire

The only part here is that I'm not 100% sure if its light or if its bright fire. But that's really it, otherwise I don't have much of a problem with it.

I suppose I could recalculate based on an arc length of shielding their eyes.

Moonfire I strongly doubt is bright fire given, again, it interacts with undead (true light hurts them) and lycanthropes (moonlight). And also the statement that it is moonlight.

 

[Tllmbrg]

So who we scale to what?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As it stands, High 8-C and above would scale to my calc. I could make the slight adjustment based on Qawsed's criticism, though mathematically I believe it would make very little difference.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump

 

[Tllmbrg]

Also I'll update the list in case we only scaling High 8-C and above

Okay so the list (Won't specify Keys outside one section):

All avatars and aspects of deities, demon lords, archdevils, Elder Evils and Slaadi Lords
All Elemental Princes, Abominations and the Cat Lord

From Humanoid Races:
All notable individuals outside Kithlord Thieraven, Azbara Jos, Dralmorrer Borngray, Frulam Mondath, Pharblex Splattergoo, The Mad Hermit, Nezznar the Black Spider, Wiggan Nettlebee, Oreioth, Talis Kasterel, Tasthania Silvershade, Janma Gleamsilver, Langdedrosa Cyanwrath, Xandala, Mwaxanare, Lady Fiona, Hanno Minstrelsong, Kasimir Velikov, Ketsarra Shadowscale, Dervill the Treacherous, Halagrad Doomhammer, Tybalt the Cursed, Ezmerelda
LeShay, Doppelganger, Githyanki and Githzerai

From Aberrations:
All notable individuals
Aboleth, Mind Flayer, Beholder, Gibbering Mouther, Neh-Thalggu, Gibbering Orb and Hagunemnon

From Fey:
Verdant Prince and Hoary Hunter

From Magical Beasts/Monstrosity:
All notable individuals outside Gorthok, the Thunder Boar
Floating Eye, Nightmare, Guardian Naga, Werewolf, Gray Render, Frost Worm, Displacer Beast (Need to apply its own CRT as well), Prismasaurus, Sirrush, Behir, Kraken, Basilisk, Brachyurus and Tarrasque

From Outsiders:
All notable individuals outside Isti-Zar
All the Genies, Inevitable, Leonal, Formian, Modron, Ghaele, Yagnoloth, Ultroloth, Nycaloth, Arcanaloth, Barbed Devil, Horned Devil, Pit Fiend, The Worm of Minauros, Retriever, Nalfeshnee, Marilith, Hezrou, Glabrezu, Balor, Empyrean, Trumpet Archon, Hound Archon, Solar, Planetar, Deva and Lamia

From Giants:
All notable individuals
Fomorian and Troll

From Undead:
All notable individuals
Hunefer, Lavawight, Shadow of the Void and Shape of Fire (Why they have the same image Bambu), Death Knight, Devourer, Ghoul, Angel of Decay, Skeleton, Vitreous Drinker, Mummy, Bone Naga and Dream Vestige

From Plants:
Plague Brush, Mu Spore and Elder Treant

From Vermins:
Devastation Vermin, Siege Crab, Thorciasid and Vermiurge

From Elementals:
Ember Guard

From Oozes:
Bloodfire, Murderoid, Venom and Genius Loci

From Constructs:
For notable individuals only The Undying Temple
Umbral Blot, Eidolon and Helmed Horror

From Dragons:
Everyone there outside Faerie Dragon

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Qaw has stated he's "fine either way" with the calc update, the only change to the OP is that those that had been getting Relativistic are now getting Relativistic+ due to a slightly higher movement distance.

So, here's what we're looking at inserting into pages. Mind you, some attention should be paid regarding characters with faster speeds than usual- particularly those with Evasion.

'''Relativistic+''' with '''FTL''' reactions ([[User blog:Mr. Bambu/D&D Calc: Dodging Actual Light|Capable of moving fast enough to somewhat dodge spells such as Anger of the Noonday Sun, which generates actual sunlight]])

Alternatively

'''FTL''' ([[User blog:Mr. Bambu/D&D Calc: Dodging Actual Light|Capable of completely dodging the sunlight generated by spells such as Anger of the Noonday Sun]])

And the upgraded versions, preferably used for creatures Low 7-B and up.

At least '''Relativistic+''' with '''FTL''' reactions ([[User blog:Mr. Bambu/D&D Calc: Dodging Actual Light|Superior to indiviuals capable of dodging lower-level spells such as Anger of the Noonday Sun]])

and

At least '''FTL''' ([[User blog:Mr. Bambu/D&D Calc: Dodging Actual Light|Superior to lower-level individuals capable of fully dodging spells such as Anger of the Noonday Sun]])

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'll give my thoughts on the speed rating when I get home.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If we're rolling through with this enormous speed buff,I say we just include Dragonstitch's accepted calcs. So it would end up looking like:

Without any evasion feats

Relativistic+, with FTL reactions (Able to react to Nonday Sun, Moonfire, and Radiant Wings. Can tag individuals with the evasion feat)

With evasion

FTL (Capable of dodging Nonday Sun, Moonfire, and Radiant Wings)

Higher tiers we probably just do what we do now and just give them an at least rating.

 

[Tllmbrg]

So what rating do we give?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump