Lavos vs Arceus

[Sniper670]

Time Devourer vs Llama God

Fight takes place outside of time and space

Speed Equalized

Time Devourer Key for Lavos vs Avatar key for Arceus

Lavos:
Arceus:

 

[Quantu]

 

[theultimate5105]

Arceus stomps

 

[Orioreeem]

Arceus stomps x2

 

[Sniper670]

Lavos has Conceptual Dream hax tho

 

[Orioreeem]

Kinda doesn't matter when your true form can send out more avatars

 

[Vietthai96]

Lavos true form is, well, passive conceptual absorption

 

[theultimate5105]

Lavos has Conceptual Dream hax tho

Arceus has conceptual everything hax with a whole lot of layers
and His True form is completely untouchable to Lavos in like 5 seperate ways

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus has conceptual everything hax

From where?

and His True form is completely untouchable to Lavos in like 5 seperate ways

Incap works

 

[theultimate5105]

From where?

all of his hax from the plate are Conceptual and he has almost every ability on the wiki

Incap works

Not really when Lavos has zero methods of Incap that Arceus’s Avatar cannot escape

 

[Sniper670]

all of his hax from the plate are Conceptual and

How?

he has almost every ability on the wiki

Bruh. I haven't even finished the CRT yet

Not really when Lavos has zero methods of Incap that Arceus’s Avatar cannot escape

Concept Dream Hax GG
Passive Concept Absorption hax

 

[theultimate5105]

How?

Plates obv

Bruh. I haven't even finished the CRT yet

Concept Dream Hax GG
Passive Concept Absorption hax

It doesn’t need to be finished

Passive null nulls both of those

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Lavos is no more non-existent than what Arceus can touch?

It doesn’t need to be finished

It needs to be finished and accepted

 

[Sniper670]

Plates obv

I've not made that crt. I'll add it to the plates page. But I'll recommend you don't use it until it's accepted

It doesn’t need to be finished

Well you're free to look into all hax on Pokémon profile and use it here. Which is why I'm gathering them all into that page. Much easier

Passive null nulls both of those

Valid. It's a layered powernull btw.

Arceus' Metal Barrier>>>>>Eternatus powernull>>>>Teravolt>>>>Mold Breaker.

Each nulls the other

 

[theultimate5105]

Lavos is no more non-existent than what Arceus can touch?


It needs to be finished and accepted

All of those powers are already accepted
that is just for organizing them

I've not made that crt. I'll add it to the plates page. But I'll recommend you don't use it until it's accepted

I mean it is accepted just the Plates page will make it a lot better off in terms of finding those hax

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Lavos is no more non-existent than what Arceus can touch?

 

[deonment]

Arceus can't do shit to Lavos permanently as High Godly Regen + NEP on aspects that would possibly let him incon and Lavos being able to snipe from beyond Arceus' range in the DBT, same with Lavos as that type 9 is a thing and he doesnt have a way around it so this is a fat incon.

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus can't do shit to Lavos permanently as High Godly Regen + NEP on aspects that would possibly let him incon and Lavos being able to snipe from beyond Arceus' range in the DBT, same with Lavos as that type 9 is a thing and he doesnt have a way around it so this is a fat incon.

What is he going to snipe Arceus that he doesn't eat for breakfast?

 

[theultimate5105]

Arceus can't do shit to Lavos permanently as High Godly Regen + NEP on aspects that would possibly let him incon and Lavos being able to snipe from beyond Arceus' range in the DBT, same with Lavos as that type 9 is a thing and he doesnt have a way around it so this is a fat incon.

NEP on those aspects does nothing to stop Arceus from simply sealing, also btw even lacking those aspect does not stop Arceus from having him
Also no DBT is not beyond Arceus’s range

 

[deonment]

What is he going to snipe Arceus that he doesn't eat for breakfast?

Absorption as that is his first move, but his whole kit currently would get nulled which is why I am saying incon

Also, OP, add the tags to the thread

NEP on those aspects does nothing to stop Arceus from simply sealing, also btw even lacking those aspect does not stop Arceus from having him
Also no DBT is not beyond Arceus’s range

The sealing that he has 50+ ways of not caring about, yes.
Yes, it is, it being above baseline has been accepted even after the 2-A range revisions.

 

[theultimate5105]

Absorption as that is his first move, but his whole kit currently would get nulled which is why I am saying incon

Also, OP, add the tags to the thread

The sealing that he has 50+ ways of not caring about, yes.
Yes, it is, it being above baseline has been accepted even after the 2-A range revisions.

Sealing negs everything he can do. Arceus specifically can neg Giratina with a single type of it and Giratina has practically everything Lavos has

And no he has not been accepted as above baseline

 

[deonment]

Sealing specifically negs everything he can do.

And no he has not been accepted as above baseline

Do you mean the same sealing that comes from Giratina, the same sealing in which it was literally accepted in the Lavos vs Giratina thread to do nothing because it has no showings of working on things with nonexistent minds, Lavos gives 0 ***** about that, and either just erases itself to go outside of Arceus' range or just spawns the dragon god to fight Arceus

Read the profiles range

Universal+ offensively. Interdimensional with other abilities (Can create dimensional vortexes leading into the Darkness Beyond Time, the nothingness beyond all dimensions of the multiverse) | Same as before, although notably enhanced (Capable of consuming dreams and generally influencing the physical world from within the depths of the Darkness Beyond Time)

It literally is accepted and on the profile itself, if you think it isn't make a crt because as it stands it very much is.

 

[theultimate5105]

Do you mean the same sealing that comes from Giratina, the same sealing in which it was literally accepted in the Lavos vs Giratina thread to do nothing because it has no showings of working on things with nonexistent minds, Lavos gives 0 ***** about that, and either just erases itself to go outside of Arceus' range or just spawns the dragon god to fight Arceus

Read the profiles range

It literally is accepted and on the profile itself, if you think it isn't make a crt because as it stands it very much is.

No Arceus literally sealing Giratina
Except no as he is sealed and that would not leave the distortion world regardless of him erasing himself, again this traps Giratina effortlessly who has all of that and is already nonexistent.
Also his Sealing has Powernull, and he can do the simple thing of sealing Lavos in a time stopped dimension beyond his resistence or a thousand other things to go along with it

That range literally says nothing about it being beyond baseline

Again people showing their complete lack of knowledge on being above baseline range in 2-A, it requires a ton of context.

 

[deonment]

No Arceus literally sealing Giratina
Except no as he is sealed and that would not leave the distortion world regardless of him erasing himself, again this traps Giratina effortlessly who has all of that and is already nonexistent

Anything that gets erased goes to the DBT, that is how the verse works, Lavos can erase NEP shit, Lavos erases itself and goes back to the DBT.

That range literally says nothing about it being beyond baseline

Again people showing their complete lack of knowledge on being above baseline range in 2-A, it requires a ton of context.

Read again

Universal+ offensively. Interdimensional with other abilities (Can create dimensional vortexes leading into the Darkness Beyond Time, the nothingness beyond all dimensions of the multiverse) | Same as before, although notably enhanced (Capable of consuming dreams and generally influencing the physical world from within the depths of the Darkness Beyond Time)

If you want to make it not so, downgrade it, simple as, otherwise this entire point is moot, so make a CRT.
Also questioning my knowledge on a subject is not an argument against the DBT being above 2-A range, please instead use your energy on debating the point rather than sayings things of this sort.

 

[theultimate5105]

Anything that gets erased goes to the DBT, that is how the verse works, Lavos can erase NEP shit, Lavos erases itself and goes back to the DBT.

and proceeds to fail as he is sealed in that dimension, while also being unable to do anything as his powers are sealed, while also being able to do nothing as he is stopped in time, you get the point

Read again

If you want to make it not so, downgrade it, simple as, otherwise this entire point is moot, so make a CRT.
Also questioning my knowledge on a subject is not an argument against the DBT being above 2-A range, please instead use your energy on debating the point rather than sayings things of this sort.

I have read it. You create a CRT to accept it, nothing on the profile even implies it is above baseline.

 

[Jinsye]

Fairly sure it was included in with the original batch of Chrono revisions so. The whole "beyond the dimensions" implies some sort of difference in range.

Also DBH has the same thing too so.

 

[deonment]

and proceeds to fail as he is sealed in that dimension

No, it doesn't stop him, when something ceases to be, it goes to the DBT, simple as, it's like ghosts going to the afterlife in media, it's not dimensional travel, it's just what happens

while also being unable to do anything as his powers are sealed

Cap, and if this is referring to the whole, you can't think in the distortion realm, not only is that contradicted god knows how many times, but even if it was true has no showings of working on things with no mind

while also being able to do nothing as he is stopped in time, you get the point

Neat, Lavos doesn't care, its BDE alone deals with this

I have read it. You create a CRT to accept it, nothing on the profile even implies it is above baseline.

Not only is it stated on the profile, but not only is it said to be beyond the entire multiverse space and time, in multiple ways, being beyond its temporal axis as it is beyond the End of Time which is infinitely far into the future at Temporal Coordinates while also requiring the use of a Mcguffin that sends people beyond space and time to reach and it is stated that when the Dead Sea was being erased back to the DBT, that it was "about to disappear into the darkness beyond the dimensions again".

 

[Sniper670]

No, it doesn't stop him, when something ceases to be, it goes to the DBT, simple as, it's like ghosts going to the afterlife in media, it's not dimensional travel, it's just what happens

Cap, and if this is referring to the whole, you can't think in the distortion realm, not only is that contradicted god knows how many times, but even if it was true has no showings of working on things with no mind

Neat, Lavos doesn't care, its BDE alone deals with this

Not only is it stated on the profile, but not only is it said to be beyond the entire multiverse space and time, in multiple ways, being beyond its temporal axis as it is beyond the End of Time which is infinitely far into the future at Temporal Coordinates while also requiring the use of a Mcguffin that sends people beyond space and time to reach and it is stated that when the Dead Sea was being erased back to the DBT, that it was "about to disappear into the darkness beyond the dimensions again".

Can you give me a good reason why Arceus cannot remake his own version of Lavos with all his abilities???

 

[theultimate5105]

No, it doesn't stop him, when something ceases to be, it goes to the DBT, simple as, it's like ghosts going to the afterlife in media, it's not dimensional travel, it's just what happens

No it does, Sealing stops said ghosts from going to the afterlife in media a lot of time as well, so this doesn’t help at all

Cap, and if this is referring to the whole, you can't think in the distortion realm, not only is that contradicted god knows how many times, but even if it was true has no showings of working on things with no mind

So somehow Lavos now resists Arceus’s Powernull

Neat, Lavos doesn't care, its BDE alone deals with this

Needs higher level BDE, Type 1 doesn’t mean anything to Arceus, and Arceus can bypass BDE regardless

Not only is it stated on the profile, but not only is it said to be beyond the entire multiverse space and time, in multiple ways, being beyond its temporal axis as it is beyond the End of Time which is infinitely far into the future at Temporal Coordinates while also requiring the use of a Mcguffin that sends people beyond space and time to reach and it is stated that when the Dead Sea was being erased back to the DBT, that it was "about to disappear into the darkness beyond the dimensions again".

Literally none of that makes it beyond baseline.
Being beyond baseline needs specific context and feats, being stated to be beyond the multiverse is meaningless on its own.

 

[Moritzva]

Arceus' Metal Barrier>>>>>Eternatus powernull>>>>Teravolt>>>>Mold Breaker.

Hold the ******* phone here mate.

First off, gameplay mechanics, Teravolt and Mold Breaker strongly revolve around them.

Second off, Teravolt and it’s sister ability do not null Mold Breaker, what? The two are exactly the same ability and have no precedence over each other.

Third off, they aren’t even good power null, as they explicitly only affect the limited abilities of enemy pokemon and their allies that would affect or avoid their attacks. Even if we took the gameplay mechanics of the ability 100% literally, Excadrill doesn’t ******’ power null things by looking at them, he can simply hit levitating pokemon with Earthquake.

I am very upset that this was spouted on a thread, this is blatant misinformation in every sense of the word. There better be some scene from the manga to prove me wrong, but Teravolt and Turboblaze appeared what, a single time?

 

[Sniper670]

Hold the ******* phone here mate.

First off, gameplay mechanics, Teravolt and Mold Breaker strongly revolve around them.

Okay

Second off, Teravolt and it’s sister ability do not null Mold Breaker, what? The two are exactly the same ability and have no precedence over each other.

They null anything that will hinder their ability yes.

Third off, they aren’t even good power null, as they explicitly only affect the limited abilities of enemy pokemon and their allies that would affect or avoid their attacks.

This I agree is game mechanics. In anime and manga, there has never been selective moves. It does what it says. No ifs and buts

Even if we took the gameplay mechanics of the ability 100% literally, Excadrill doesn’t ******’ power null things by looking at them, he can simply hit levitating pokemon with Earthquake.

That's not how it works in anime and manga

I am very upset that this was spouted on a thread, this is blatant misinformation in every sense of the word.

Misinformation from where

There better be some scene from the manga to prove me wrong, but Teravolt and Turboblaze appeared what, a single time?

There's is. Mold Breaker is in anime and manga

 

[Moritzva]

The anime uses Mold Breaker only a few times, with the only noticeable discrepancy being Rampardos ignoring Static. While this isn't how it would work in the games, it is very adjacent to how the effect is described in the post. You're making shit up, also your link doesn't work.

Also, they don't nullify anything that affects their abilities, only Abilities. As in, the Pokemon version of Abilities, not Powers & Abilities.

And, again, there's no evidence that Teravolt is ">>>" Mold Breaker, they do the same thing with zero differences and don't even nullify each other.

Everything you've said is misrepresentation and misinformation about the abilities at play, and I find that horribly dishonest. In the manga, Haxorus is used to nullify the Solid Rock ability, which is perfectly in-line with what the games list it as. In the anime, Rampardos nullifies Static, which isn't strictly how it works in the games but is an effect that happens upon hitting with a move, so it's in-line with the effect from a general standpoint. In other words, that is how it works in the anime, manga, and games. Claiming that there's a power null chain is blatantly dishonest when these abilities are so limited and narrow in their 'power null' and definitely do not trump each other.

I will repeat this again, not only is there no evidence that Teravolt is naturally superior to Mold Breaker, but they're the same goddamn abilities with different names and don't even work on each other.

 

[Sniper670]

The anime uses Mold Breaker only a few times, with the only noticeable discrepancy being Rampardos ignoring Static. While this isn't how it would work in the games, it is very adjacent to how the effect is described in the post. You're making shit up, also your link doesn't work.

Mold Breaker

Moves can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities.

Also, they don't nullify anything that affects their abilities, only Abilities. As in, the Pokemon version of Abilities, not Powers & Abilities.

And, again, there's no evidence that Teravolt is ">>>" Mold Breaker, they do the same thing with zero differences and don't even nullify each other.

Everything you've said is misrepresentation and misinformation about the abilities at play, and I find that horribly dishonest. In the manga, Haxorus is used to nullify the Solid Rock ability, which is perfectly in-line with what the games list it as. In the anime, Rampardos nullifies Static, which isn't strictly how it works in the games but is an effect that happens upon hitting with a move, so it's in-line with the effect from a general standpoint. In other words, that is how it works in the anime, manga, and games. Claiming that there's a power null chain is blatantly dishonest when these abilities are so limited and narrow in their 'power null' and definitely do not trump each other.

But there is a Powernull chain

Arceus Plates>>>>Eternatus Power null>>>>all other nulls in the series

 

[Moritzva]

Mold Breaker


But there is a Powernull chain

Arceus Plates>>>>Eternatus Power null>>>>all other nulls in the series

First off, I've actually played the damn games and I know what the abilities actually do. It doesn't null all abilities, it allows the user to hit Pokemon fully and without consequence even if their Ability would say otherwise. You are taking a single line of description that is then extrapolated on and has plenty, plenty, plenty of examples, and ignoring all those examples in favor of "Well, I guess it nulls everything!" when it blatantly, absolutely, objectively does not.

If you want to say Arceus plates and their null are greater than Eternatus' passive prevention of Pokemon using their moves, sure. That's a very short and basic chain, and isn't even outright power null as Eternatus only nullifies the usage of moves as a passive effect. Mold Breaker and Teravolt have literally nothing to do with that, and saying that they do is incredibly untrue.

Speaking of which, a source on Eternatus' power null would be appreciated, to further examine the validity of these claims.

 

[Sniper670]

First off, I've actually played the damn games and I know what the abilities actually do. It doesn't null all abilities, it allows the user to hit Pokemon fully and without consequence even if their Ability would say otherwise. You are taking a single line of description that is then extrapolated on and has plenty, plenty, plenty of examples, and ignoring all those examples in favor of "Well, I guess it nulls everything!" when it blatantly, absolutely, objectively does not.

That is game mechanics. Which has been proven by the fact there is not limitations used on it in anime/manga

So it's not "select moves"

Or you think Psychic Pokémon are as limited as they are in the games because what they can do is locked within movesets.

If you want to say Arceus plates and their null are greater than Eternatus' passive prevention of Pokemon using their moves, sure. That's a very short and basic chain. Mold Breaker and Teravolt have literally nothing to do with that, and saying that they do is incredibly untrue.

Teravolt/Mold breaker gets nulled by Dynamax users, especially Eternatus, which gets nulled by Arceus plates

Check the Dynamax page

 

[Moritzva]

That is game mechanics. Which has been proven by the fact there is not limitations used on it in anime/manga

So it's not "select moves"

Or you think Psychic Pokémon are as limited as they are in the games because what they can do is locked within movesets.



Teravolt/Mold breaker gets nulled by Dynamax users, especially Eternatus, which gets nulled by Arceus plates

Check the Dynamax page

It's not 'game mechanics' to obey the way something has been used in the manga, games, and anime altogether. I have no idea what your point about psychic pokemon is, that makes zero sense and has no relevance to the discussion.

As for Dynamax... also no, what? Dynamax doesn't stop Teravolt or Mold Breaker, the hell are you even talking about? In fact, where is your source for Dynamax nullifying abilities at all? It can nullify a few, such as Cursed Body, but I see no actual support or evidence for any of that.

Speaking of which, a source on Eternatus' power null would be appreciated, to further examine the validity of these claims.

 

[Sniper670]

It's not 'game mechanics' to obey the way something has been used in the manga, games, and anime altogether. I have no idea what your point about psychic pokemon is, that makes zero sense and has no relevance to the discussion.

It does. The point is that what is nulled is not limited by what the game says.

It's game mechanics for a fact that it will break competitive, so they arbitrarily limit it

Not the case in anime, manga

As for Dynamax... also no, what? Dynamax doesn't stop Teravolt or Mold Breaker, the hell are you even talking about? In fact, where is your source for Dynamax nullifying abilities at all? It can nullify a few, such as Cursed Body, but I see no actual support or evidence for any of that.

Eternatus nullifies their powers.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about bro?

 

[Moritzva]

It does. The point is that what is nulled is not limited by what the game says.

It's game mechanics for a fact that it will break competitive, so they arbitrarily limit it

Not the case in anime, manga

Eternatus nullifies their powers.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about bro?

Literally none of what you say is true or has a source. Mold Breaker explicitly shows, is described as, and only nullifies things for a specific purpose. I am not tolerating this, you are actually lying if you are claiming that Mold Breaker genuinely nullifies everything, including itself. It doesn't. It hasn't done that, ever, in any medium. You are objectively wrong, and have shown zero proof besides claiming that... the manga and anime are also using game mechanics?

Name a source for "limiting it for balance". Objectively false, as Neutralizing Gas does the exact same thing as what you are describing. Again, making things up.

In the anime and manga, it does exactly what I described, which I have proven. Use actual evidence to say otherwise.

Give me a source for all Dynamaxed pokemon nulling abilities, and if not that, give me a source for Eternatus doing it.

Don't sass me when you've given literally zero evidence.

 

[Sniper670]

Literally none of what you say is true or has a source. Mold Breaker explicitly shows, is described as, and only nullifies things for a specific purpose.

Game mechanics. Not the same in the anime and manga which nulls abilities in general, not specific.

I am not tolerating this, you are actually lying if you are claiming that Mold Breaker genuinely nullifies everything,

It nullifies abilities that will prevent the attack from being used. No?
And yes, specifics are game mechanics

including itself. It doesn't. It hasn't done that, ever, in any medium. You are objectively wrong, and have shown zero proof besides claiming that... the manga and anime are also using game mechanics?

The manga follows the games and yes, mold breaker nullifies ability and not specific ones

Name a source for "limiting it for balance". Objectively false, as Neutralizing Gas does the exact same thing as what you are describing. Again, making things up.

In the anime and manga, it does exactly what I described, which I have proven. Use actual evidence to say otherwise.

Yes. Mold Breaker does exactly what it's described
Null abilities that will prevent its use

Give me a source for all Dynamaxed pokemon nulling abilities, and if not that, give me a source for Eternatus doing it.

Eternatus does that

Don't sass me when you've given literally zero evidence.

It's evidence you disregard anyway

 

[Sniper670]

Can we actually go back to the debate now?
You're derailing with irrelevant comments