Lancer (Karna) vs Berserker (Cu Alter)

[-BANLK-]

Win by death or ko.

 

[Karna333]

Karna easily wins. He has better parameters, skills and noble phantasms. It seems to me that karna only needs his skillfully fight style. Karna is known to have the level of the gods, in terms of skill. When he fought Siegfried, in apocrypha, he was able to hit him 78 times, all in vital points. It is possible karna use Brahmastra, to asegurate the win because he is not so arrogant as Gilgamesh. I am not saying that Cu is weak, but he has not the level of karna. In grand order, Cu was able to attack Karna, because he was fighting against Arjuna. In addition, although Cu hit hin with the Gae Bolg, he did not instantly die, karna could endure and use a very weak version of Vasavi Shakti. For these reasons, I think Karna is too strong, in a face to face C├║ Chulainn has not any chances.

 

[Aresduelist]

Cu alter takes this obiviously

- he defeated both Scathach and Rama without too much problem. Scathach herself was stated to be stronger than Arjuna, someone who Karna himself had extremely hard time to defeat. And Rama was also on same level with them

- Cu alter did injured by a weakened VS, so what? His incredible rune and grail support healed the external wound instantly. its not like he lost any limb or dying though thanks to EX rank ME and A rank Battle Continuation he have

- a full powered VS will kill him? I higly doubt that. Cu alter at that time still not yet evolved/drawing power from Holy Grail and didnt use curruid armor to block the attack. In other words, he was far from his peak of power. I'm sure a full powered VS will not resulting different outcome if cu himself took it at his strongest form.

- It didnt matter who karna was fighting with. Cu alter gae bolg missile have homing properties. If you said Cu was able to attack karna because he was fighting Arjuna, then Karna did the same too. He attacked Cu while he was confronting Mashu and Merlin

- if karna's skill rivals even gods, then Cu alter's skill surpasses Scathach who kills gods

edit

Rama was confirmed to be the strongest indian bros in fate. His 2nd NP allows him to use powerful astras without being restricted by Saber class. some of them are the famous trishula, pinaka and chakram. FYI those astras are comparable or even surpasses VS and pashupata in terms of power.

yet with all those overpowered weapons he still need Mashu and Nightingale to barely won against Cu Alter. Hence he even collapsed at near end of battle while Cu Alter in his 3rd form still standing like a mutated cockroach

 

[ZeroOmar]

cu was this strong in america because he was powered up by the grail and i think the version we're using in this thread isn't powered up by the grail but i am not sure

karna didn't have an extremely hard time to defeat arjuna at all he is capable of beating him just fine and while it was stated that scath can beat arjuna she never actually fought him so you can't assume that she can easily beat him and a grail powered up cu alter backstabbing karna with a super version of gae bulg isn't like a weakened karna using VS while he is dying

karna said that a full powered VS can kill the white titan in fate extella who is obviously stronger than cu alter so overall i'll give it to karna

 

[Aresduelist]

Grail was part of his power. Pretty much like ozy with amon ra or arthuria with rhongomyniad goddess possesed her so that's not an excuse

Scathach being stronger than arjuna was a statement came from cu alter's mouth himself. He simply said "her power was beyond yours". No one in fate world knows about her more than him.

Nah read chapter 19, Rama outright stated that Arjuna did very well and gave Karna an even fight. Karna may be stronger, but he won mostly because bowman wasnt mean for direct combat. I wont call that "just fine" If Karna>Arjuna and Scathach>Arjuna, Karna and Scathach should be around same level. Remember how Cu alter curbstomped her? And dont forget about how he curbstomped Rama + hundreds of unknown servant in first chapter as well.

Backstabbing or not wont make any difference. Super gae bolg has insta kill effect or guaranteed to deal great damage after all. Karna's armor nullified the insta-kill effect but cant handle the spear's damage. Remember cu alter still have one more superior NP that is a countermeasure of kavacha and kundala. Karna? Throw away VS and he have nothing to harm Cu alter

Servants in fate extra world were different than normal. I wont scale to them. Gil in ccc could simply defeat three goddess alliance and obliterate tiamat single handedly you know

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Vasavi Shakti still one shots, Karna can probably cancel out super Gae Bolg with Brahmastra Kundala. Noticing that the battle is a stalemate he will use Vasavi Shakti and one shot Cu, seeing as Karna is not weakened Vasavi Shakti will be at 100% power meaning that he can kill Divine Spirits with it and Divine Spirits >>>>Cu.

 

[Aresduelist]

Vasavi Shakti still one shots, Karna can probably cancel out super Gae Bolg with Brahmastra Kundala. Noticing that the battle is a stalemate he will use Vasavi Shakti and one shot Cu, seeing as Karna is not weakened Vasavi Shakti will be at 100% power meaning that he can kill Divine Spirits with it and Divine Spirits >>>>Cu.

Cu can spam gae bolg as much as he wants. Karna can't

Brahmastra kundala can be blocked by Mashu's shield. Gae Bolg can't. Needed Merlin to stop him from killing Mashu with Gae Bolg. and Merlin>>>>>>>>>Karna

Cu can one-shot Karna with Curruid Coinchenn too. Karna's armor cannot protect him from inside. Remember how Vlad hurt him with B-rank wodden stakes? replace that stakes with multiple A-rank cursed spears and he'll screwed just like Scathach.

how he pierce the armor? simple. EX rank strength + gae bolg-like claws should be enough to do that

both can pretty much oneshots each other but you should remember that Cu alter is super hard to kill due rune magic, battle continuation and grail power which grants him ability to evolve at least twice (excluding halphas) each time being killed or defeated.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah, Karna reasons above. VS one-shots when he finally decides to use it, and his skill and K&K keep him in the fight long enough to decide to.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Karna will still hit him first with Brahmastra kundala because it is destined to hit, and then he will instantly have the advantage because Cu will have to heal, and Cu doesn't start fights in Curruid so he will be at disadvantage if not dead because Base Cu won't be able to tank a Brahmastra kundala unless you are telling me that Base Cu is tougher than Luminosité Eternelle. Let's assume that base Cu somehow survives, since he is so damaged he won't be using Super Gae bolg. Super Gae Bolg got cancelled by Scathachs gae bolg, and Super Gae Bolg only needed Merlin to stop it because it has a bs aoe insta kill, and because it is still stronger than Brahmastra kundala but not nearly as strong as you make it out to be. When Cu transforms Karna will Vasavi Shakti and kill him, unless you are going to tell me that Cus EX endurance is superior to Akhilleus Kosmos.

EDIT: Also Mashu only stated that she was unsure if she could block Super Gáe Bolg, not that it's impossible......

 

[Aresduelist]

Karna will still hit him first with Brahmastra kundala because it is destined to hit, and then he will instantly have the advantage because Cu will have to heal, and Cu doesn't start fights in Curruid so he will be at disadvantage if not dead because Base Cu won't be able to tank a Brahmastra kundala unless you are telling me that Base Cu is tougher than Luminosité Eternelle. Let's assume that base Cu somehow survives, since he is so damaged he won't be using Super Gae bolg. Super Gae Bolg got cancelled by Scathachs gae bolg, and Super Gae Bolg only needed Merlin to stop it because it has a bs aoe insta kill, and because it is still stronger than Brahmastra kundala but not nearly as strong as you make it out to be. When Cu transforms Karna will Vasavi Shakti and kill him, unless you are going to tell me that Cus EX endurance is superior to Akhilleus Kosmos.
EDIT: Also Mashu only stated that she was unsure if she could block Super Gáe Bolg, not that it's impossible......

saying someone who curbstomped god slayer, tanked a weakened EXrank Anti-god NP without even going all out and overhelmed one of the best indian heroes weaker than defensive NP from a mid-tier servant is utterly ridiculous downplay

it seems that you karna supporters knows nothing about Cu, keep ignoring his feats and wont stop wanking about VS. I understand. and let me make it simple for you guys.

Cu has higher physical stats, got boosted by ME at the highest rank, A rank BC, unlimited mana from grail, rune for instant Regenerationn, spammable insta-kill spear and demonic armor with claws that inflict internal damage (countermeasure for K&K). He also have 3 forms (excluding halphas) that can only be accessed after being killed/defeated in previous forms (this is different from Herc's god hand that can be killed >1time with single attack).

Now tell me how Karna defeat him three times while the only way he have to kill Cu is VS?

On other hand, Cu can just easilly spam gae bolg. or move fast enough to stab him with curruid coinchenn. Brahmastra kundala can counter gae bolg but karna can't spam that. and since Scathach who on same level with him lost 90% of her organs by curruid, Karna will face the same end

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

We go by what's on C├║s profile and he doesn't have his demon forms so that's irrelevant so Karna only needs to kill him once. Cu has infinite mana so what? Karna also has infinite mana from getting hooked up to he greater grail, Karna won't need Vasavi Shakti because he blows up Cu with Brahmastra Kundala. Also that downplay on Jeannes np, it tanked multiple ex ranked magic spells that can destroy servants with A rank magic resistance, tanked Spartacus self destruct without any problems and deflected Atalantas super charged arrows that can damage Karna. And Brahmastra kundala would have destroyed it and killed Jeanne. Base Cu has tanked a weakened Vasavi Shakti yet still almost died and had to retreat to heal. IIRC Karna did indeed spam Brahmastra kundala vs Sieg who countered with spamming super charged Balmung, so Karna can stalemate Cu rather easily if Cu tries to Gae bolg Karna will Brahmastra Kundala. If Cu uses his armour he won't get his super gae bolg so Karna will have the range advantage and use Vasavi Shakti.


Let's look at Cu alters feats shall we. Fought Rama who was in the wrong class and didn't use his Vishnu Bhuja weapons and stabbed him with gae bolg and still didn't kill him. Caught Scathach by surprise with his Currid and destroyed 90% of her organs still didn't kill her. Back stabbed Karna yet he didn't kill him and Karna used Vasavi Shakti to return fire and kills himself but he does blow up Cu but Cu survives due to his regen, which is a PIS moment because Vasavi Shakti is literally stated to be able to kill anything ranging from random beasts to divine spirits, and it destroyed Akhilleus Kosmos which bears the concept of the world and killed the white titan, don't think we are wanking Vasavi at all when compared to you wanking Cu alter lol.


EDIT: Anyway I'm done arguing with you since your bias for Cu alter and you wanking Rama, while downplaying Karna in the other thread is pissing me off.

 

[Aresduelist]

- Cu's profile in VSbattles is not complete and outdated. Just like other characters profile. - karna doesnt have unlimited mana. What the heck are you talking aboit? He also didnt spam brahmastra kundala. Siegfried did use balmung continously thanks to fran's galvanism but Karna didnt. Re read the novel - again and again, cu didnt nearly killed by weakened VS. Read my previous post. Stop exarregating things - again and again. Weakened VS was still>>>>>>>>>brahmastra kundala VS is planet level. Even if the one cu tank was only 10% of its fullpower, weakened VS should be still much stronger than brahmastra kundala no matter how you slice it Also Cu and Karna's tier are far above atalanta and spartacus. They just cannot be compared each other - those feats of yours are mostly innacurate. How did you know that rama didnt use vishnu bhuja when the fight was 90% offscreen? Seriously dude, just think about it. Rama was facing someone who nearly killed him in past and responsible for deaths of 30+++ servants, including Karna. There was no reason for him to not using his full power. And he must be super idiot if he didnt. Not using Vishnu Bhuja also will lead him and protagonist group to death since Brahmastra alone not enough to hurt him, much less kill him 3 times

Scathach didnt killed because he jumped to gate of skye and dispatched her physical body. She was incapacitated fot the rest of chapter and that's not so different than death

Cu didnt regenerate. He's retreat because his regen didnt work. Think about it again. If he regenerated he shouldnt need to retreat and can just massacre protagonist group immediately. That's the real PIS. Yeah VS is super effective OHKO weapon for all kind of target but that refers to full powered one. The one cu tanked was a weakened version of dying karna. Saying a weakened version bears same effect as fullpower is stupid

I'm not downplaying. You are the one who downplay them with innacurate feats and statement. And you seems keep ignoring other's argument so i have to explain the same thing again and again

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

This is still just Berserker Cu not demon god cu if you are unhappy with his profile or think it's outdated make a content revision thread. Even then Cu won't be reviving anytime soon since Vasavi Shakti is a spear of morality it would prevent his ressurection, like you saw how a weakened Vasavi Shakti maybe at 5% still dealt great damage to Cu and forcing him to retreat amd heal instead of healing at the battle field, and even then it took a long ass time to heal.

Ok fine you make good points about Cu and Karna>>>>> other servants but still Atalanta was stated to be able to harm Karna with his armour on and Semiramis EX rank magic spells was also incredibly powerful. The spells are on the level of Magic and Jeanne no sold multiple of them, while Karna would be able to destroy Jeanne even with her NP with Brahmastra Kundala. What happened to Vishnu Bhuja containing multiple VS level weapons? I doubt even Cu would survive them unless of course they are just regular weapons on par with noble phantasms in which case yeah Rama probably did use them.

Anyway I'm almost 100% certain Karna gets hooked to the greater grail In apocrypha which is why he went all out vs Sieg without worrying about prana consumption and if that is wrong then Karna still has infinite mana because Hakuno Kishinami (whose body, soul, and mind act as the masters for Nero's, Tamamo's, and Altera's squads) is hooked up to the Moon Cell and thus given a limitless supply of mana. Cu doesn't spam Super Gae Bolg at all, while Karna did 2 back to back Brahmastra kundala attacks vs Sieg EDJT: NWM Karna didn't do 2 Brahmastra Kundala but he did block one Balmung blast that deflected Brahmastra Kundala with his armour and prana burst so there's that. In character Karna would use Brahmastra Kundala first which will deal damage to him and force him to heal. If Cu goes super Gae Bolg I'm pretty sure it would with moderate difficulty overpower Brahmastra Kundala but it would be much weaker and not deal as great damage to Karna and the instant kill effect would be negated by the armour. Noticing that he can't take another super gae bolg Karna would use VS and since he isn't in a near death state he would insta kill him and prevent his ressurection.

Assuming they duke it out in CQC first Karna wrecks Cu if he doesn't use his armour because of Karnas bs golden armour,wanked spearmanship and prana burst. If Cu uses his armour Karna one shots him at range with VS. Or if he doesn't use his armour and goes for gae bolg Karna will weaken it with Brahmastra and VS and end him.

However if Cu goes super gae bolg and Karna doesn't Brahmastra Kundala to somewhat offset and weaken the attack it becomes a repeat of North America. Overall I give it to Karna with very high difficulty.

Yeah sure I admit it I did downplay Cu but only because I got salty that you downplayed Vasavi Shakti and ignored Extella feats and statements. But yeah it was a douche move that I'm not proud of.

 

[-BANLK-]

Ummmmm Karna got upgraded soooooo.