Kusuo Saiki Revisions…

[ShionAH]

Yes it controversial, consider it already talking about some abstraction like possibility and a power that can directly affect reality

Welp now we got 2 agreements on them so it doesnt matter.

 

[Antvasima]

@JustSomeWeirdo @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @EliminatorVenom @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @FinePoint @Propellus

What do you think about this?

Kusuo Saiki Revisions…

I added the accepted stuff. Now we wait for the 2-A/Low1-C and Plot Manipulation

vsbattles.com

 

[Propellus]

I can't really evaluate this as this is a Tier 2/1 thread, which I'm not knowledgeable in those two

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks anyway.

 

[ShionAH]

I can't really evaluate this as this is a Tier 2/1 thread, which I'm not knowledgeable in those two

What about the Plot hax?

 

[FinePoint]

I have never even heard of this verse, so I do not think I'd be much help here.

 

[ShionAH]

DarkGrath already accepted the 2-A iirc, Low 1-C just needs opinions by using the stuff on the OP.

The verse barely has any supporters.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

The verse barely has any supporters.

4 supporters wth 1mod supporter there are verse that have only 1 supporters.

 

[Duedate8898]

Everything looks good hear to me, I think 2-A, possibly Low 1-C is the best bet in this instance. While qualitative superiority is implied, I do believe we'd just need more info on the exact nature of the readers in this case to make the rating more solid. That's just how I see it

 

[ShionAH]

Everything looks good hear to me, I think 2-A, possibly Low 1-C is the best bet in this instance. While qualitative superiority is implied, I do believe we'd just need more info on the exact nature of the readers in this case to make the rating more solid. That's just how I see it

Thank you so much!

 

[ShionAH]

Should I add the 2-A and Plot hax?

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have accepted what here?

 

[Benimōru]

Which staff members have accepted what here?

DarkGrath agrees with everything else and being neutral on 5-D/L1-C thing + She didn't say anything about 2-A yet, the last time she asked Shion for scans and she hasn't gotten back to him yet.
You're agreeing with DarkGrath
Duedate8898 agrees with 2-A, Possibly L1-C and with everything else as well

DontTalkDT disagrees with L1-C and did not comment on other things

 

[ShionAH]

He didn't specify anything about other things as far as I know

Everything looks good hear to me

 

[Benimōru]

I edited the message.

 

[Edutyn]

Bump!

 

[Antvasima]

DarkGrath agrees with everything else and being neutral on 5-D/L1-C thing + She didn't say anything about 2-A yet, the last time she asked Shion for scans and she hasn't gotten back to him yet.
You're agreeing with DarkGrath
Duedate8898 agrees with 2-A, Possibly L1-C and with everything else as well

DontTalkDT disagrees with L1-C and did not comment on other things

Hmm. DontTalk almost always seems to be correct regarding higher tiering. What did he say exactly?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Hmm. DontTalk almost always seems to be correct regarding higher tiering. What did he say exactly?

He said that the novel probably isnt canon, but the OP has since provided new evidence

 

[ShionAH]

Hmm. DontTalk almost always seems to be correct regarding higher tiering. What did he say exactly?

He thinks the novel itself is Tier 11 for some reason

 

[Benimōru]

Hmm. DontTalk almost always seems to be correct regarding higher tiering. What did he say exactly?

As Shion and Neco mentioned, he said that novel should either be considered non-canon or Tier 11, and that he didn't understand why the same R>F thing was brought up again because it was rejected before

 

[ShionAH]

He didnt respond to recent scans though I woukd like to add.

 

[Edutyn]

Bump!

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. DontTalk almost always seems to be correct regarding higher tiering. What did he say exactly?

He said that the novel probably isnt canon, but the OP has since provided new evidence

He thinks the novel itself is Tier 11 for some reason

As Shion and Neco mentioned, he said that novel should either be considered non-canon or Tier 11, and that he didn't understand why the same R>F thing was brought up again because it was rejected before

@DontTalkDT

Can you comment further here please?

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT

Can you comment further here please?

We had a thread where the ratings got downgraded just recently so we shouldn't even have the debate by the 3 month rule.

The new evidence adds nothing beyond what was already rejected by several staff members in that thread at that.

And the novel is not canon, as it was written by another author and only addressed as a novel in canon. (as in, the main character holds the novel in his hands as a book)

Saiki promotes and talks about the Novel (in a 4th wall breaking way)

Doesn't prove what happens is canon, as he talks about it and shows it existing as a book only. If anything it supports not being canon more.

Novel Saiki and Nendo prove it has the same continuity as the manga, straight up.

No, because they are in the novel. The manga being canon to the novel is not the novel being canon to the manga. Otherwise I could prove my fanfiction canon by referencing the original work. That's not how it works. The original work must declare the fanfiction canon.

Just because its not written by the same person does not mean it us not canon btw just like neco said

It does mean it is not canon until proven canon. Just like how anime adaptations are not canon until proven otherwise.

Technically speaking, everything is connected

Not sure what a fan made relationship chart is supposed to prove. It's too low quality for me to read the scans in case any of them say something relevant.

@DarkGrath Since you seem to agree with some stuff here, why do you think the novel is canon?

 

[ShionAH]

The manga being canon to the novel is not the novel being canon to the manga.

Yet we clearly see the novel being referenced in the manga. You showed it yourself

And no saying "its a fictional book" because Saiki broke the fourth wall is simply illogical.

Not sure what a fan made relationship chart is supposed to prove.

Its a collection of events made by a fan to show that they are all canon to eachother. There is absolutely no way you are dealing with that big evidence with a "fanmade stuff, IDC"

 

[ShionAH]

The new evidence adds nothing beyond what was already rejected by several staff members in that thread.

And the novel is not canon, as it was written by another author and only addressed as a novel in canon.

Do not twist the CRT. There are several other scans in this CRT and it has more supporting evidence.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yet we clearly see the novel being referenced in the manga. You showed it yourself

If you want to claim it exists in the manga AS A BOOK I agree. But in no way was it referenced in the manga in a fashion that would indicate that the events happened.

Its a collection of events made by a fan to show that they are all canon to eachother. There is absolutely no way you are dealing with that big evidence with a "fanmade stuff, IDC"

I can not read the scans in the chart, due to too low quality. Post the scans in a way I can read them and we can debate.

 

[ShionAH]

If you want to claim it exists in the manga AS A BOOK I agree. But in no way was it referenced in the manga in a fashion that would indicate that the events happened.

Are you serious right now?

Saiki is known to make references for his media.

Look at this then. Is the Manga itself exists as a book now inside the manga itself? Huh?

I can not read the scans in the chart, due to too low quality. Post the scans in a way I can read them and we can debate.

Try downloading it. It looks very good quality to me.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I can not read the scans in the chart, due to too low quality. Post the scans in a way I can read them and we can debate.

you have to zoom in, fyi

 

[ShionAH]

Putting these for context.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Are you serious right now?

Saiki is known to make references for his media.

Look at this then. Is the Manga itself exists as a book now inside the manga itself? Huh?

Which doesn't prove that it is the case here. You are speculating that it might be the case, but you have no evidence for it. It not necessarily meaning that the events didn't happen, doesn't prove that they did actually happen.

Like, you're basically trying to say that every book that appears in the verse has its content actually happen, because Saiki did a fourth wall break once. That's not acceptable evidence.

Try downloading it. It looks very good quality to me.

Still can't read the scans on it even then. In the first place, to debate the scans knowing which chapters they come from would be helpful.

 

[DontTalkDT]

you have to zoom in, fyi

Duh, but zoomed in the scans still look like this.

 

[ShionAH]

Which doesn't prove that it is the case here. You are speculating that it might be the case, but you have no evidence for it. It not necessarily meaning that the events didn't happen, doesn't prove that they did actually happen.

My evidence for it is that Saiki does this “seeing it as an actual piece of fiction to reference the media” often. As seen by him seeing his manga as fiction

With your logic Saiki would have an infinite cycle of Immersion/R>F

Its way more accurate to say that Saiki is just breaking the fourth wall to promote and add the novel to the continuity. So many verses get their stuff be considered canon because they are referenced in the original media, whats so different here? The 4th wall break? Come on. This is Saiki. The man literally exits his show to beat his own author…he is obviously simply breaking the fourth wall.

Also even if we say its a novel that doesnt make sense, Saiki hides his powers so why tf would he have an entire novel about it? See my point?

In the manga scans we clearly see Saiki talk about the things we learn in the Novel and even shows it to the viewers. Saying its one way canon is simply illogical and…wrong.

Duh, but zoomed in the scans still look like this.

No idea. The scan looks good for me. Maybe try downloading it or smth?

 

[DontTalkDT]

My evidence for it is that Saiki does this “seeing it as an actual piece of fiction to reference the media” often. As seen by him seeing his manga as fiction

"often" being once.

With your logic Saiki would have an infinite cycle of Immersion/R>F

No, with my logic, Saiki did a fourth wall break once.

Its way more accurate to say that Saiki is just breaking the fourth wall to promote and add the novel to the continuity.

He does break the fourth wall to promote the novel, but there is no indication at all that it's intended to add the novel to continuity if he never says the stuff in it happened. Just like an author putting "hey the anime is out" at the end of some chapter doesn't mean it's canon.

So many verses get their stuff be considered canon because they are referenced in the original media, whats so different here? The 4th wall break? Come on. This is Saiki. The man literally exits his show to beat his own author…he is obviously simply breaking the fourth wall rather

What is different is that other verses say the things in the other media actually happened, while Saiki says it is just a book in the canon verse.

Also even if we say its a novel that doesnt make sense, Saiki hides his powers so why tf would he have an entire novel about it? See my point?

If we go your way it is still presented as a novel, meaning the problem you lay out still exists. You can't post a scan of it being shown as a novel and use that as evidence that it is not a novel but only happened.
The answer to Saiki keeping secrets is this: It's a fourth wall break and people just miraculously don't make the connection. Just like when other people in the manga break the fourth wall regarding other stuff. Like, Saiki expects other people to have actually read the novel. He says so to Kusuke.

In the manga scans we clearly see Saiki talk about the things we learn in the Novel and even shows it to the viewers. Saying its one way canon is simply illogical and…wrong.

Yeah... he talks about the novel as a novel. Not as "this actually happened".

No idea. The scan looks good for me. Maybe try downloading it or smth?

I have downloaded it, same issue.
Can you just post the relevant scans in it with the chapters they're from? As said, we need the chapter numbers anyway.

 

[ShionAH]

"often" being once.

I can probably find more if I read it again but I wont.

No, with my logic, Saiki did a fourth wall break once.

Seeing your mangas as fiction who sees the manga as fiction who sees the manga as fiction who sees…

Infinite.

He does break the fourth wall to promote the novel, but there is no indication at all that it's intended to add the novel to continuity if he never says the stuff in it happened. Just like an author putting "hey the anime is out" at the end of some chapter doesn't mean it's canon.

Expect Saiki literally talks about the things we learn in the novel. Like his teleportation

If the novel never happened then neither Kusuo or Kusuke would say this.

What is different is that other verses say the things in the other media actually happened, while Saiki says it is just a book in the canon verse.

Again Saiki is known for breaking the fourth wall all the time, him breaking the fourth wall and seeing his media as fiction is simply a gag while promoting the novel and since the events match making it canon

The answer to Saiki keeping secrets is this: It's a fourth wall break and people just miraculously don't make the connection. Just like when other people in the manga break the fourth wall regarding other stuff

Oh so when it doesnt go your way its fourth wall breaking??

Is it an actual novel or is it fourth wall breaking? Literally pick one so I can debate more accurately.

Yeah... he talks about the novel as a novel. Not as "this actually happened".

Yet he talks about the things he learnt in the novel about teleportation.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk makes sense to me here.

 

[ShionAH]

DontTalk makes sense to me here.

You read all my arguments? You agree with DT every time I see you two-

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Read through it. I agree with everything, for the most part. I'm nowhere near skilled enough with Tier 1 dimensionalities and such to make a call on 5-D, so I'm neutral for that.

 

[Edutyn]

This works?

 

[GrathOfLux]

@DarkGrath Since you seem to agree with some stuff here, why do you think the novel is canon?

I already stated in my post that I have little comment on the canonicity matters.

I won't comment on the canonicity matters. These questions are always tied up in subtleties of authorial intention that, for a verse I have no prior knowledge of, I can't give meaningful comments on.

I can, and have, evaluated the information as it is provided. However, my perspective would obviously change if it can be unambiguously shown that the information isn't applicable to the main continuity.