Rikimarox2
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'''''Speed Equalized.'''''
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Kumagawa Vs Giorno Giovana
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
- Status
SchroKatze
They/Them- 3,868
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Just give up, Fire will wank MB and reject any argument against it.
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goddamn it, can we just get rid of it? otherwise it might be inconclusiveRikimarox2 said:
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First of all FINALLY SOME FEKING ARGUMENTS for this fight.
1. It directly does affects cause and effect actually. Where Cause is the state of "0" and effect is the end. His zero reset goes back from the effect to the cause (we'r talking about death loops here btw). While for Kumagawa, you can't do that, because "there is no cause or effect", he was never hurt by you in the past, he never died, you never did something he wants you not to do. That is the idea. The state of 0 was erased from the timeline.
2.Yes Kumagawa does "screw" the shit out of causality. Here is a link to how All Fiction works and what it can do: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firephoenixearl/All_Fictio And to revert All Fiction GER would have to turn "reality" into the state of 0, which is gonna be hard cus All Fiction IS pretty strong and also has GER shown the ability to turn to zero something like reality itself? I mean something that has never existed, has he shown or stated in someway to be able to do that?
3. Not only his willpower reset a much weaker version of Kumagawa's bookmaker, but it will really not acomplish anything, it will just stop the battle, but no one will win. It will be like this: GER resets will to 0, now Kumagawa doesn't want to fight and just goes to drink tea somewhere. Should GER try something else like Death Loop or anything, Kumagawa will just come back with normal will. (All Fiction activates passively on death or similar stuff). Will power doesn't make GER the winner it just stops the battle for a little bit.
4. Speed Equalized, and GER is not infinite, i mean he is only via hax doe and Kumagawa is infinite via Hax aswell. I may unequalize speed though. RN....they both start as soon as GER tries to do anything he gets a Bookmaker screw through his solar plexus, making Kumagawa the winner. Let's see: Who votes that i unequalize speed?
1. It directly does affects cause and effect actually. Where Cause is the state of "0" and effect is the end. His zero reset goes back from the effect to the cause (we'r talking about death loops here btw). While for Kumagawa, you can't do that, because "there is no cause or effect", he was never hurt by you in the past, he never died, you never did something he wants you not to do. That is the idea. The state of 0 was erased from the timeline.
2.Yes Kumagawa does "screw" the shit out of causality. Here is a link to how All Fiction works and what it can do: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firephoenixearl/All_Fictio And to revert All Fiction GER would have to turn "reality" into the state of 0, which is gonna be hard cus All Fiction IS pretty strong and also has GER shown the ability to turn to zero something like reality itself? I mean something that has never existed, has he shown or stated in someway to be able to do that?
3. Not only his willpower reset a much weaker version of Kumagawa's bookmaker, but it will really not acomplish anything, it will just stop the battle, but no one will win. It will be like this: GER resets will to 0, now Kumagawa doesn't want to fight and just goes to drink tea somewhere. Should GER try something else like Death Loop or anything, Kumagawa will just come back with normal will. (All Fiction activates passively on death or similar stuff). Will power doesn't make GER the winner it just stops the battle for a little bit.
4. Speed Equalized, and GER is not infinite, i mean he is only via hax doe and Kumagawa is infinite via Hax aswell. I may unequalize speed though. RN....they both start as soon as GER tries to do anything he gets a Bookmaker screw through his solar plexus, making Kumagawa the winner. Let's see: Who votes that i unequalize speed?
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> I mean something that has never existed, has he shown or stated in someway to be able to do that?
Ya do realize ger AP comes from negating erased time. Time that does outright obviousky not exist.
>3. It will be like this: GER resets will to 0, now Kumagawa doesn't want to fight and just goes to drink tea somewhere. Should GER try something else like Death Loop or anything,
Thats called an incapacitation.
>4. Speed Equalized, and GER is not infinite.
Unequal if ya want but ger moved while time was outright gone and deleted from the universe for a moment and crimson pointed that ger moving should be outright bullshit and cant occur.
Ya do realize ger AP comes from negating erased time. Time that does outright obviousky not exist.
>3. It will be like this: GER resets will to 0, now Kumagawa doesn't want to fight and just goes to drink tea somewhere. Should GER try something else like Death Loop or anything,
Thats called an incapacitation.
>4. Speed Equalized, and GER is not infinite.
Unequal if ya want but ger moved while time was outright gone and deleted from the universe for a moment and crimson pointed that ger moving should be outright bullshit and cant occur.
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- #48
> Negate Erased time
Does he actually negate the erasure of time and brings that time back? He just moves in erased time.
>Incap
No not rly, it won't be that "kumagawa is incapable of fighting", he will just choose not to fight while still being invurnerable. I really doubt it counts as GER's victory if the will power manipulation just outright stops the vs from happening.
> GER moving.
Again via hax, and tell me when "infinite speed" doesn't get fuked by time stop. Do u think equal or unequal is better? Equal is a shit stomp imo doe, due to the bullshit that is instant "bookmaker".
Does he actually negate the erasure of time and brings that time back? He just moves in erased time.
>Incap
No not rly, it won't be that "kumagawa is incapable of fighting", he will just choose not to fight while still being invurnerable. I really doubt it counts as GER's victory if the will power manipulation just outright stops the vs from happening.
> GER moving.
Again via hax, and tell me when "infinite speed" doesn't get fuked by time stop. Do u think equal or unequal is better? Equal is a shit stomp imo doe, due to the bullshit that is instant "bookmaker".
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- #50
Inconclusive for what reasons?
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Mate. The universal rating comes from negating the time erasure after crimson deleted time.
Yeah? Self bfr. A lack of will to fight. Why do ya think empathy and mind hax can be potent and haxed at times? That is a reason. Plenty of matches are won from the opponent not fighting at all and self bfr from hax effecting the mindset.
No? He litterally just moves while time had been deleted . And ger assumedly endures time stop. Make a thread if ya dont think ger had infinite speed because the profile makes mention of him explicitly having the speed of infinity.
Yeah? Self bfr. A lack of will to fight. Why do ya think empathy and mind hax can be potent and haxed at times? That is a reason. Plenty of matches are won from the opponent not fighting at all and self bfr from hax effecting the mindset.
No? He litterally just moves while time had been deleted . And ger assumedly endures time stop. Make a thread if ya dont think ger had infinite speed because the profile makes mention of him explicitly having the speed of infinity.
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1. He moves in a time stop, not negate it (unless im mistaken), to negate would mean that literally everyone else will be able to move in that erased time, making the ability useless....also called "negating the use of the ability", not resisting it. Resisting universal time stop doesn't = universal AP btw, cus holy god that would mean casual multi universal+ Iihiko.
2. From what i know mind hax is only useful if either has a way to put the other down. Kumagawa himself end his life, and neither can Giorno, i doubt that counts as a win. Though im gonna ask a bit on this, i may be wrong.
3. Yeah...via hax or resistance, you can move in deleted time via hax or resistance. He is MFTL though, that's fast enough.
2. From what i know mind hax is only useful if either has a way to put the other down. Kumagawa himself end his life, and neither can Giorno, i doubt that counts as a win. Though im gonna ask a bit on this, i may be wrong.
3. Yeah...via hax or resistance, you can move in deleted time via hax or resistance. He is MFTL though, that's fast enough.
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Ya dont realize how this works do ya? And the time stop was a time deletion. Also he did. After he set the deletion to zero time flown back normal.
That would count as a form of incapacitatiom from the opponent.
Mate stop acting like ya are aware exactky how ger works when ya clearly dont. Gers fast. He moved within deleted time . Thats a feat. Look at dark area digimon. Void feats a thing and ger had a quantifiable not contradicted feat of moving within a pseudo void. The profile litterally states he had infinite speed man.
That would count as a form of incapacitatiom from the opponent.
Mate stop acting like ya are aware exactky how ger works when ya clearly dont. Gers fast. He moved within deleted time . Thats a feat. Look at dark area digimon. Void feats a thing and ger had a quantifiable not contradicted feat of moving within a pseudo void. The profile litterally states he had infinite speed man.
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I predict this will end like those other JJBA Vs MB threads but I might as well vote incon
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- #56
Oh so he nullified the deletion? Ok i wasn't aware of that, all i've heard is "he moved in a time stop". Ok then.
Again not infinite speed. Infinite speed =/= you can only move in some time stops but not in others. Infinite speed = it doesn't matter the hax, if you keep the time at point 0 and im able to move indefinitely in that point 0 then you can't stop me.
Again not infinite speed. Infinite speed =/= you can only move in some time stops but not in others. Infinite speed = it doesn't matter the hax, if you keep the time at point 0 and im able to move indefinitely in that point 0 then you can't stop me.
SchroKatze
They/Them- 3,868
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@Everyone. Again, just give up. Fire is a wanker that ignores anything logical to put MB characters at the top.
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- #58
Anyway current case:
Fight starts, Giorno gets screwed, becomes fodder, kumagawa wins.
or
Fight starts, Giorno gets fictioned, kumagawa wins.
Fight starts, Giorno gets screwed, becomes fodder, kumagawa wins.
or
Fight starts, Giorno gets fictioned, kumagawa wins.
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GER's loop is the perfect counter to All Fiction, this is directly stated and admitted by Kumagawa himself. Kumagawa can't even act due to the will power manipulation. (I have the sneeking suspicion this thread may have been made with me in mind)
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1. If it were an endless death loop done via other means then yes, it could work. This kind of death loop won't work as it only repeats cause and effect (which will both be erased by All Fiction). So you 0 reset the fact that Kuma died, bringing him back to life, but that "about to die point" and the "dying point" never existed, so it can't be looped.
2. Yeah will power manip, but this is speed equalized so Bookmaker will be much faster, All Fiction aswell.
2. Yeah will power manip, but this is speed equalized so Bookmaker will be much faster, All Fiction aswell.
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Yeah will power manipulation kind of makes this a GG for Giorno. All Fiction is not some passive defensive force acting on his behalf, he must willingly use it himself.
GER, however, acts on Giorno's behalf. He outright stated he doesn't even know how GER is doing it, implying there is control beyond his own, similar to Star Platinum. So if an ability would ultimately end up removing Giorno from existance, I think GER would either be unaffected, be removed and come back, or demonstrate some foresight and negate it before the ability takes affect.
I vote for Giorno. Please start counting votes.
GER, however, acts on Giorno's behalf. He outright stated he doesn't even know how GER is doing it, implying there is control beyond his own, similar to Star Platinum. So if an ability would ultimately end up removing Giorno from existance, I think GER would either be unaffected, be removed and come back, or demonstrate some foresight and negate it before the ability takes affect.
I vote for Giorno. Please start counting votes.
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Firephoenixearl said:
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It makes sense though. Will Manip requires touch (unless im mistaken, doesn't make a difference either way), bookmaker and all fiction only require thought, and even if that were the case (if both required only thought) in speed equalized matches power null and stuff similar to it > Actions. So if let's say we have 1 user of Bookmaker and 1 user of All Fiction. Both are activated at the same time, Bookmaker would take precedence as it is a null (it would be the same if it were power erasure.if we have an activation and a power erasure activated at the same time, power erasure would take precedence). And as i said before, Bookmaker would stop GER, it would literally null everything that makes Giorno > Kumagawa (speed, talent, skills, personal abilities, intelligence, experience and every thing else), that's the idea behind Bookmaker, Kumagawa is a loser so since he can't be good, he will just make everyone else bad. So if bookmaker is used, GER would be sealed along with it's ability to 0 reset and will therefore be unable to 0 reset the use of bookmaker.
1. That is both right and wrong. If Kuma is alive, All Fiction in his complete control, he dies, it becomes a passive.
2. GER is, a stand that has a mind of his own. It is still "giorno's" skill doe. If bookmaker gets in, it will be sealed, and GER would have no way of bringing Giorno back from All Fiction. Not only is all fiction conceptual and it's effects wouldn't be reversed by something like 0 reset (it's not powerful enough), but GER would be erased along with Giorno (Kuma could also just erase GER itself or the concept of stand, that would also work). I know what you're gonna say "well but GER lives and revives Giorno even if he were to be hurt. All Fiction is different though, if it erases Giorno, GER never existed, cus it is Giorno's spirit basically, it exists because Giorno exists (even if GER were a sentient that is completely separate from Giorno's existence currently but still came to existence because of giorno it would still work). All Fiction makes it so that Giorno was never born, never had a life, never had a fighting spirit and therefore never had a stand, that's why GER would by default never exist.
1. That is both right and wrong. If Kuma is alive, All Fiction in his complete control, he dies, it becomes a passive.
2. GER is, a stand that has a mind of his own. It is still "giorno's" skill doe. If bookmaker gets in, it will be sealed, and GER would have no way of bringing Giorno back from All Fiction. Not only is all fiction conceptual and it's effects wouldn't be reversed by something like 0 reset (it's not powerful enough), but GER would be erased along with Giorno (Kuma could also just erase GER itself or the concept of stand, that would also work). I know what you're gonna say "well but GER lives and revives Giorno even if he were to be hurt. All Fiction is different though, if it erases Giorno, GER never existed, cus it is Giorno's spirit basically, it exists because Giorno exists (even if GER were a sentient that is completely separate from Giorno's existence currently but still came to existence because of giorno it would still work). All Fiction makes it so that Giorno was never born, never had a life, never had a fighting spirit and therefore never had a stand, that's why GER would by default never exist.
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Firephoenixearl said:
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LOL. That's like what, the 8th time that u've just thrown shade at my argument without anything to back it up?
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If ^this isn't indicating that he created a spite thread, then I don't know what else it is.Firephoenixearl said:
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Giorno stomps the entire Medaka Verse handily. People need to stop wanking M.Box so ******* much.
Next to a guy with actual High 3-A feats, the whole Medakaverse is fodder.
Next to a guy with actual High 3-A feats, the whole Medakaverse is fodder.
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That's why i was asking whether i should unequalize speed, in case it is a stomp.Homu Sweet Homu said:
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Matthew Schroeder said:
- cough* conceptual erasure of colors on a universal+ scale from every timeline....
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Fire, nobody believes in your irrational Medaka bias. All your arguments are headcanons based on random attack lists.
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You missed this part doe:ALRF said:
Unknow with All Fiction (It was stated that his lack of full control over his powers could wind up with him erasing all of existence.
All of existence. There are at least multiple universes in Medaka Box, erasing all of existence would mean at least universal+ range. That + the fact that once he erased colors he said "i erased colors from the world" (world as we know is planetary or all of existence, not only did we see that it was far beyond planetary, but "world" is the same term he uses when saying he can erase all of existence, which as you can see it's accepted that it means "all of existence").
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Can we just, close this and be done with it before it's getting worse?
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Pls let's not get into this, you are the same person who said "Medaka Box is a verse with tier 8's". When stuff like Medaka and Ajimu is in there. Don't get into the bias and wank "arguments".Matthew Schroeder said:
Also we'r derailing quite a freaking bit from the actual battle, can we stop this and think of the battle?
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It already is "in a way" when it says "it can erase all of existence", though it is fairly useless fact for this battle, it doesn't matter whether it is universal or universal+. Not in this fight.ALRF said:
Rikimarox2
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This will turn into a shitstorm In No time.
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Dude. He never erased colors in the canon manga and even in the anime it is debatable. More like he just modified the electromagnetic spectrum to not show a color rather than delete its concept from existence.
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