Krillin 3-A upgrade

[Gohanblanco217]

Idk why this hasn't been done yet but here we go :

Krillin forced Goku to dodge his attacks, block and seemingly look concerned when a destructo disc gets close to his face.

Goku struggled to stop Krillin energy beam and was forced to go super Saiyan :

Even if we assume that Goku was holding back except he clearly wasn't holding back by much or else he wouldn't have needed to go super Saiyan in the first place.

A Destructo disc was able to push Cell max head (where his weakspot is located) :

While Piccolo not only wasn't able to do any kind of damage but also he wasn't even able to make Cell max head flinch unlike Krillin did :

The same Piccolo scales to Gamma 2 who's stated to be on Goku and vegeta level which should at least reffers to their base forms.
Therefore I suggest to at least give to Krillin a possibly 3-A rating

 

[Nullflowerblush]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/x-men-no-more-humans-dragon-ball.146489

 

[Aachintya31]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/x-men-no-more-humans-dragon-ball.146489

L

 

[Aachintya31]

Idk why this hasn't been done yet but here we go :

Krillin forced Goku to dodge his attacks, block and seemingly look concerned when a destructo disc gets close to his face.

This was done and deemed an outlier.

A Destructo disc was able to push Cell max head (where his weakspot is located) :

I mean you can't use this to justify his 3-A reasoning since Cell Max is Beerus Level a.k.a Half 2-C .

 

[Gohanblanco217]

This was done and deemed an outlier.

I mean you can't use this to justify his 3-A reasoning since Cell Max is Beerus Level a.k.a Half 2-C .

His weakspot isn't , Piccolo who is on Goku and vegeta level couldn't even make it flinch unlike Krillin destructo disc + Krillin forcing Goku to go SSJ and forcing him to dodge all of his destructo discs

 

[Gohanblanco217]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/x-men-no-more-humans-dragon-ball.146489

Nothing go against anything I've posted here, my point still stands

 

[Aachintya31]

His weakspot isn't

Still Low 2-C or SSB level if not Half 2-C

 

[Nullflowerblush]

in "The Artisans Who Made the Universe Survival Arc of Dragon Ball Super, Now Reaching Its Climax", an article on the Dragon Ball Official Site, Dragon Ball Super series director Ryōta Nakamura stated "...I intended on putting more effort into the warriors like the Turtle Hermit or Kuririn, the ones who at first made you ask “why’d they bring these guys along?” Because Toriyama-sensei selected them. If he was just looking for battle power, then he would have only brought along people who could go Super Saiyan, like Goten or Trunks. I think Toriyama-sensei went out of his way to select those people as a way of telling us to have fights that would put them to good use, rather than simply having characters win by going Super Saiyan." Goten and Trunks are notorious slackers, even putting aside their training during the three-year period between Broly and Super Hero to such a degree that Goten claimed to have forgotten how to fuse properly. Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks being High 4-C puts a wrench in Krillin, Tien, and Roshi being anywhere near the tier. Hell, Nakamura even exclaimed that the two Saiyans could have overcome any skill gap that the humans needed to create between themselves and their opponents by powering up, suggesting that their Super Saiyan forms are leagues above the likes of the humans.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Do note that Krillin doesn't really train either. If he was below Goten and Trunks then, odds are he still is.

 

[Frey6678]

 

[ShakeResounding]

Do note that Krillin doesn't really train either. If he was below Goten and Trunks then, odds are he still is.

In episode 84 when Goku and Gohan go to his place, there's that moment where Android 18 says the money he spent on his home gym would be wasted if he refused to participate. Not saying I believe in the upgrade, but Krillin does SOME capacity of training (at least through exercise). Even if from a dingy home gym lol

 

[Jinsama]

We should ignor dragonballs power-system for a second ... it makes sense but my gut says this aint right.

Lets just say that all the stuff is a skill feat for Krillin and not universal AP.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I disagree. I'd say this is more based on skill than AP, and Goku's clearly known to hold back against his opponents. And budging Cell Max with a destructo disc isn't really all that impressive, either. It didn't do any real damage, and the destructo disc is known to be especially powerful with its cutting ability. That cutting power just barely gave Krillin the chance to budge a Cell Max while he was distracted.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Destructo Disk has extreme dura negation, and as for the Kamehameha scene, it's an outlier for these reasons-

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not agree with this tbh. Krillin indeed has gotten a lot stronger than he was and to the point where I think the underdogs should be higher than High 4-C and at least 4-B scaling from Basil and Napapa tbh. But I think going all out and giving him a 3-A rating is stretching it. Goku going SSJ or even SSB isn't evidence of him being serious; it was to make Krillin think he was fighting seriously, but that's not the same as actually fighting seriously. Krillin was also easily stomped by Frost later on; and if 18 is getting forbidden from being upgraded to 3-A than Krillin and by extension Tien, Master Roshi, or even Majin Buu would not. Not to mention Goten and Trunks.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Do note that Krillin doesn't really train either. If he was below Goten and Trunks then, odds are he still is.

Not if he gets a good feat LMAO

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Destructo Disk has extreme dura negation, and as for the Kamehameha scene, it's an outlier for these reasons-

it's not durability negation, it's just very sharp. High raw durability means tanking it.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

if 18 is getting forbidden from being upgraded to 3-A

something, something, power of love

While Piccolo not only wasn't able to do any kind of damage but also he wasn't even able to make Cell max head flinch unlike Krillin did :

I'd like to point out that not only does this imply that Krillin can deal more damage than Ultimate Piccolo, but is also completely disingenuous, considering what Piccolo did was nearly a hole through his weak point.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

well, I'm not too cool with that, but I think at least 3-C would work?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

well, I'm not too cool with that, but I think at least 3-C would work?

headcanon numbers right there. Way better to say "at most 3-A with X"

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

headcanon numbers right there. Way better to say "at most 3-A with X"

hmm, I understand

 

[Nullflowerblush]

私は17号回しか担当していませんが、スカウトをして回る悟空は、倒すためではなく、相手を探るために闘っていました。ブルーになったのは相手のやる気を引き出すためではないでしょうか。私はそう解釈しています。誤解を招く表現がありましたらお詫びします。

"I am only responsible for the Android 17 episode, but Goku going around scouting was fighting to explore his opponent, not to defeat him. The reason he turned Blue was to motivate the other party. That is how I interpret it. I apologize for any misleading expressions."

What are the odds that Goku transformed to motivate Android 17, the objectively superior fighter, but transformed to counter Krillin because he was pressured? Like, Krillin was solo'd by Frost, who was solo'd at 100% by Frieza, who is comparable to Goku.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Hell, as a matter of fact, dialogue from Gohan and Android 18 strongly suggests, narratively, that Goku only transformed to present Krillin with a problem (that being a power gap) to solve with skill, testing his wit and his combat ingenuity, as an simulation of the Tournament of Power of sorts, rather than because he needed to transform. Because, evidently, he did not need to transform.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

oh, and the cell max scaling is bogus on all fronts. the claims are disingenuous, the logic is shotty at best, considering not even android 18, who is still stronger than him, could do any meaningful damage to him.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, that's the thing about Goku is that he mastered the ability to hold back with style. He appeared as a SSB but his actual PL was far less than what his base form was capable of. And him shouting and grunting was just an act to promote intimidation and test his wits to overcome power gaps. But at this point in time, his SSB form was equal to Golden Frieza with his base form being equal to his regular final form. Which Frieza one-shotted a 100% Frost who one-shotted Krillin without a buff.

Also, real hot take, but Cell Max is just a weird case in general. The only ones really needed were Piccolo and/or Gohan and the former probably could have beaten Cell Max on his own if he really wanted to. All he had to do was stretch his arm to entangle Cell Max and then use his other hand to perform a fully charged special beam cannon. The only reason he didn't was because he wanted Gohan to grow hence why he faked his death. But a lot of people who fought Cell Max besides Piccolo, Gohan, and the Gammas were cannon fodder.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Frost who one-shotted Krillin without a buff.

Didn't frost attack Krillin off guard?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I do think Krillin should be stronger than some of the weaker people in the ToP, but 3-A because of Goku

18 however should be 3-A, since literally the only anti feat is her being restrained by Brianne while being caught off guard, compared to her matching Ribrianne before and also soloing her with the power of her love for Krillin. 18 and 17 kept up with each other multiple times too, even though 17 is stronger than her

 

[Chianli]

poor krillin, honestly he should have like get something new that its in his style.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I do think Krillin should be stronger than some of the weaker people in the ToP, but 3-A because of Goku

18 however should be 3-A, since literally the only anti feat is her being restrained by Brianne while being caught off guard, compared to her matching Ribrianne before and also soloing her with the power of her love for Krillin. 18 and 17 kept up with each other multiple times too, even though 17 is stronger than her

I agree idk why 18 isn’t considered 3-A

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I agree idk why 18 isn’t considered 3-A

Yeah, but that's for another thread

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Yeah, but that's for another thread

No

 

[Gohanblanco217]

The only counter argument so far is a statement made by the director of DBS I just don't see how that is an excuse to dismiss multiple feats, Krillin performed much better against base Goku than SSJ3 Gotenks ever did against base vegeta :

Krillin was also able to keep up with base Gohan who is comparable to base Goku :


And even in dbz Krillin is above the likes of Yamcha who did this :

Yamcha stomped Olibu who is comparable to Pikkon :

The same Pikkon who one shoted Cell :

This clearly shows that Krillin is above Goten and Trunks and it's pretty consistent and now he got so much stronger to the point where he can put up a good fight with base Gohan and Goku while SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't do anything to a holding back base vegeta

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The only counter argument so far is a statement made by the director of DBS I just don't see how that is an excuse to dismiss multiple feats, Krillin performed much better against base Goku than SSJ3 Gotenks ever did against base vegeta :

Goku was merely testing Krillin before the ToP. He was holding back a lot and even then, Android 18 clearly noted that Krillin can't overcome Goku's power even with him holding back

Let's not forget in DB they can suppress their power level to really low levels, so Krillin "matching" Goku doesn't mean much. Gohan and 17 have later feats showing themselves as around SSB Goku level, unlike Krillin

Toei stuff

Toeiverse stuff aren't canon to DBS so it's irrelevant

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Base Gohan was also holding back exponentially.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Goku was merely testing Krillin before the ToP. He was holding back a lot and even then, Android 18 clearly noted that Krillin can't overcome Goku's power even with him holding back

He still performed far better against base Goku than SSJ3 Gotenks who couldn't do anything to base vegeta who was also massively holding back :

So even if you disagree with Krillin being comparable to base Goku he should still be at least above SSJ3 Gotenks so that should make him at least 4-B

Gohan and 17 have later feats showing themselves as around SSB Goku level, unlike Krillin

And this matters because of? I was talking about Krillin matching base Gohan who was shown to be comparable to base Goku before ToP and not ultimate Gohan who is comparable to SSJB Goku (even that is questionable since Gohan couldn't even damage base toppo who is SSJB level but I'm gonna talk about this in an other thread)

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

He still performed far better against base Goku than SSJ3 Gotenks who couldn't do anything to base vegeta who was also massively holding back :

So even if you disagree with Krillin being comparable to base Goku he should still be at least above SSJ3 Gotenks so that should make him at least 4-B

Krillin performed better because of his unique techniques, not because of his power level. And we don't really know whether Copy Vegeta was holding back. I personally don't think he was because while Copy Vegeta was bothered with fighting Trunks, it clearly wasn't enough to stop him from trying to kill Trunks, and he was just standing there at his base power to show how utterly wide the gap in strength is. It's in-character for Vegeta to do this.

And this matters because of? I was talking about Krillin matching base Gohan who was shown to be comparable to base Goku before ToP and not ultimate Gohan who is comparable to SSJB Goku (even that is questionable since Gohan couldn't even damage base toppo who is SSJB level but I'm gonna talk about this in an other thread)

I believe that Gohan was also holding back significantly against Krillin.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So even if you disagree with Krillin being comparable to base Goku he should still be at least above SSJ3 Gotenks so that should make him at least 4-B

That's not how it works. Also that contradicts Toriyama saying that Goten and Trunks technically have more raw power than Krillin. Also Copy Vegeta was sort of serious against SS3 Gotenks hence why he took 0 damage and repealed him. Why would an evil copy of Vegeta who is kind of intended to be sort of bloodlusted be holding back. Gohan and Goku on the other hand were holding back a lot against Krillin. While I do agree Krillin should be 4-B as well as the Katchin busters scaling from the likes of Basil and Napapa. And Goku seemed more impressed with Krillin's growth than he was Majin Buu's growth. But some people might find those iffy too.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

In regards to Basil-level threats, Krillin is overpowered.

In regards to his training with Gohan, the argument is disingenuous; Gohan, while holding back, no-sold Krillin's attacks and instantly floored him, stunning Goku and 18, after being chastised for holding back, and Krillin was only able to make leeway by disorienting his senses.

In regards to Gotenks and Copy Vegeta, Copy Vegeta is 3-A.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In regards to Basil-level threats, Krillin is overpowered.

Didn't Krillin lose though?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Didn't Krillin lose though?

It's the same thing as being overpowered