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Kratos vs Sonic (again)

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Robo432343

Robo432343

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Kratos

Kratos (Greek: Κράτος) is the titular playable protagonist of Sony Santa Monica Studio's acclaimed God of War series. Born and raised among the violent Spartans, Kratos rose through the ranks to become a fearsome general, winning many wars under his command. However, they eventually encountered...
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vs

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Sonic the Hedgehog (Modern)

Sonic the Hedgehog (ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ, Sonikku za Hejjihoggu) is Sega's mascot and the eponymous protagonist of the Sonic the Hedgehog video game series. He is an anthropomorphic hedgehog born with the ability to run faster than at the speed of sound and beyond, hence his name, and possesses...
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Both 5D
SBA
Speed Equal
 
The Sonic fandom and GoW fandom here are like those college roommates who didn't think they'd get along at first and then became best buds.

The last match between these two ended as inconclusive when both were 2-C so Imma delve in again.

Kratos:
  • Info Analysis to know how powerful Hyper Sonic is, giving him an initial advantage.
  • His Soul Manipulation stuff is layered, meaning an attack to Sonic would affect his soul and will absolutely be punishing (or maybe even fatal outright).
  • Much more variety in terms of the hax he's willing and going to use in-character.
  • Potent af Reactive Evolution. Bro might get mad and spawn a resistance lol
= Both have Invulnerability from a Conceptual source of energy.
= Both have layers to their concept stuff.
- Will be unable to counter the potency of Sonic's speed amps until his Accelerated Development allows him to catch up in terms of being able to react to him.

Sonic:
  • In-character speed amps that will at the very least further boost Sonic's mobility.
  • Sonic's Accelerated Development will ensure he's not left behind in terms of AP.
  • 4x greater reaction speed than his combat/travel speed, allowing for more time to react and punish in the initial stages of the fight.
= Both have Invulnerability from a Conceptual source of energy.
= Both have layers to their concept stuff.
  • Sonic leading with H2H combat is his most dangerous move in this entire battle.
  • While he wields abilities Kratos doesn't resist (Info Type 2, Law Manip), Sonic wouldn't think to utilize it unless his back's against the wall.

I'm sure both had a few additions in terms of hax, but I'm thinking that the outcome here has remained largely the same (maybe a bit more in Kratos' favor than last time). Not voting just yet tho, I'll hear from some of the GoWchads
 
ShakeResounding said:
= Both have Invulnerability from a Conceptual source of energy.
Click to expand...
Sonic negates invulnerability

ShakeResounding said:
= Both have layers to their concept stuff.
- Will be unable to counter the potency of Sonic's speed amps until his Accelerated Development allows him to catch up in terms of being able to react to him.
Click to expand...
Well, Sonic also has his own AD to still keep up even still

ShakeResounding said:
  • While he wields abilities Kratos doesn't resist (Info Type 2, Law Manip), Sonic wouldn't think to utilize it unless his back's against the wall.
Click to expand...
Sonic's Info manip is passive tho

ShakeResounding said:
I'm sure both had a few additions in terms of hax, but I'm thinking that the outcome here has remained largely the same (maybe a bit more in Kratos' favor than last time). Not voting just yet tho, I'll hear from some of the GoWchads
Click to expand...
I also am of the same mind as this
Both can still pretty much one tap one another in different means, also jot voting yet, waiting for GoW guys to talk first
 
This seems interesting. Don't know much about Kratos but doesn't Sonic gets faster every second passively alongside his amps? Kratos may have difficulty landing a hit

Also Hyper Sonic has forcefields with his boost if that helps
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
This seems interesting. Don't know much about Kratos but doesn't Sonic gets faster every second passively alongside his amps? Kratos may have difficulty landing a hit

Also Hyper Sonic has forcefields with his boost if that helps
Click to expand...
Kratos also gets faster, and due to SBA they both start at 4 kilometers apart, so Kratos should be able to possibly foresee Sonic, altho if Sonic comes at close range it would become a problem




also due to SBA the versions of the chars used would be Ragnarok Kratos and Super Sonic Hidden Power due to them all being in the same tier, but those being the most recent versions of them

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Standard Battle Assumptions

The following are the assumptions to be made for battles in versus threads, if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator. Assumptions alternative to these ones can be freely used, are equally legitimate, and threads using different assumptions can be added to profiles just...
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omegabronic said:
Kratos also gets faster, and due to SBA they both start at 4 kilometers apart, so Kratos should be able to possibly foresee Sonic, altho if Sonic comes at close range it would become a problem




also due to SBA the versions of the chars used would be Ragnarok Kratos and Super Sonic Hidden Power due to them all being in the same tier, but those being the most recent versions of them

vsbattles.fandom.com

Standard Battle Assumptions

The following are the assumptions to be made for battles in versus threads, if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator. Assumptions alternative to these ones can be freely used, are equally legitimate, and threads using different assumptions can be added to profiles just...
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Click to expand...
No? SBA is the strongest canon version of the character, which would be Hope Kratos and whatever key of Sonic is the strongest.
 
Anyway, both of them have almost all of each other's abilities so I assume it'd come down to either layers or the few abilities they don't share.

Does Sonic have recently accepted layers in this key? Something that I'd need to be sure off before saying anything.
 
Planck69 said:
No? SBA is the strongest canon version of the character, which would be Hope Kratos and whatever key of Sonic is the strongest.
Click to expand...
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.


from what i can read, it is the most recent version since they all have the same tiers (Low 1-C), altho you could have more insight in this than me, maybe i am misinterpreting something


Planck69 said:
Anyway, both of them have almost all of each other's abilities so I assume it'd come down to either layers or the few abilities they don't share.
Click to expand...
the main one would be his Information manipulation type 2 alongside the causality and law hax that come with it, afaik kratos doesn't resist them

Planck69 said:
Does Sonic have recently accepted layers in this key? Something that I'd need to be sure off before saying anything.
Click to expand...
in his resistances he does have 1 layer of resistance to Conceptual Manip, altho Kratos has more layers of this one iirc
 
omegabronic said:
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.


from what i can read, it is the most recent version since they all have the same tiers (Low 1-C), altho you could have more insight in this than me, maybe i am misinterpreting something



the main one would be his Information manipulation type 2 alongside the causality and law hax that come with it, afaik kratos doesn't resist them


in his resistances he does have 1 layer of resistance to Conceptual Manip, altho Kratos has more layers of this one iirc
Click to expand...
It's generally meant to be the strongest in most cases, Kratos is just weird in that his latest key isn't his strongest one. Robo can clarify otherwise.

Anyway, what does he do with his Information Manipulation? I'll remind everyone generally that having an ability in itself isn't an automatic win condition.

Kratos himself has 6 layers of mind/soul/ Type 1 concept/probability manipulation via his attacks and magics, as well as invulnerability that works on such a scale.
 
omegabronic said:
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.


from what i can read, it is the most recent version since they all have the same tiers (Low 1-C), altho you could have more insight in this than me, maybe i am misinterpreting something
Click to expand...
Robo again doesn't include the characters' verses and leaves everyone confused.
ShakeResounding said:
= Both have layers to their concept stuff.
Click to expand...
I can't find the additional layer in the Super Sonic/others key.

Furthermore, were these layers passed in the layer evaluation thread? Because they have to pass.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I didn't see this in the profile but... Can Sonic do this on a conceptual level? Because Kratos' invulnerability works even against layered type 1 concepts
Click to expand...
The Chaos Emeralds allow for the existence for Conceptual beings (Illumina/Void) by way of allowing their existence to begin with, so yes
Planck69 said:
Anyway, what does he do with his Information Manipulation? I'll remind everyone generally that having an ability in itself isn't an automatic win condition.
Click to expand...
So basically it has a few effects in one:
TL;DR - Cyber Corruption applies forceful Absorption, Sense Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Interdimensional BFR, and Power Nullification at a level of Info Type 2.
Kratos himself has 6 layers of mind/soul/ Type 1 concept/probability manipulation via his attacks and magics, as well as invulnerability that works on such a scale.
Click to expand...
SHEESH, no point in debating those layers then, Kratos has a clear advantage.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I didn't see this in the profile but... Can Sonic do this on a conceptual level? Because Kratos' invulnerability works even against layered type 1 concepts
Click to expand...
1 try to find this text in the profile, it is in there
and 2 yep, Chaos Energy is conceptual by nature, type 1 as well, one of the reasons i should finish the Chaos Energy page is to comunicate this better it is the Emerald's page

Planck69 said:
It's generally meant to be the strongest in most cases, Kratos is just weird in that his latest key isn't his strongest one. Robo can clarify otherwise.
Click to expand...
huh, the wording on the page is weird then, by nevermind i guess, Kratos' wincons don't change much anyway regardless from what i can see

Planck69 said:
Anyway, what does he do with his Information Manipulation? I'll remind everyone generally that having an ability in itself isn't an automatic win condition.
Click to expand...
you know how kratos destroys mind/soul/ Type 1 concept and such? same thing, Sonic destroys Information with his attacks

Planck69 said:
Kratos himself has 6 layers of mind/soul/ Type 1 concept/probability manipulation via his attacks and magics
Click to expand...
that would destroy Sonic, altho he does have restoration by running, but that would depend on how quick the destruction of those are, how quick is Kratos'?

Planck69 said:
as well as invulnerability that works on such a scale.
Click to expand...
is it layered as well by any means?
 
omegabronic said:
1 try to find this text in the profile, it is in there
and 2 yep, Chaos Energy is conceptual by nature, type 1 as well, one of the reasons i should finish the Chaos Energy page is to comunicate this better it is the Emerald's page


huh, the wording on the page is weird then, by nevermind i guess, Kratos' wincons don't change much anyway regardless from what i can see


you know how kratos destroys mind/soul/ Type 1 concept and such? same thing, Sonic destroys Information with his attacks


that would destroy Sonic, altho he does have restoration by running, but that would depend on how quick the destruction of those are, how quick is Kratos'?


is it layered as well by any means?
Click to expand...
Kratos' attacks can instantly destroy souls, which are Type 1 concepts in GoW. He's also Invulnerable in all facets of his existence, so you'd need to be able to negate Invulnerability on a conceptual level to deal with him. That or have higher layered conceptual destruction.

He can also absorb those he kills and gain their powers, evolve against hax used against him, time travel on a Low 1-C scale (though Sonic can likely also do this), has layered power nullification and absorption etc.

The information attacks would be a major issue so it'd come down to whose moves are quicker on the draw. Both get faster and stronger over time as well. Frankly, if each can nuke each other with their attacks if they land, its inconclusive.
 
Planck69 said:
Kratos' attacks can instantly destroy souls, which are Type 1 concepts in GoW. He's also Invulnerable in all facets of his existence, so you'd need to be able to negate Invulnerability on a conceptual level to deal with him. That or have higher layered conceptual destruction.

He can also absorb those he kills and gain their powers, evolve against hax used against him, time travel on a Low 1-C scale (though Sonic can likely also do this), has layered power nullification and absorption etc.

The information attacks would be a major issue so it'd come down to whose moves are quicker on the draw. Both get faster and stronger over time as well. Frankly, if each can nuke each other with their attacks if they land, its inconclusive.
Click to expand...
Isn't it basically the layers that determine the difference between very close haxes like Info type 2 and CM type 1?
 
JJSliderman said:
Any chance Sonic can use CC Smurf BFR, seeing as it banished Blaze beyond the reach of 6-D Solaris.
Click to expand...
I'm ngl I doubt it mainly because the match doesn't seem like it will last long enough for that.

Kratos because of his Info Analysis and 6 layers of Conceptual Manipulation, Sonic because of his speed amps and passives at a Type 2 Info level.
Planck69 said:
The information attacks would be a major issue so it'd come down to whose moves are quicker on the draw. Both get faster and stronger over time as well.
Click to expand...
Basically this. Kratos has layers up the ass to conceptually nuke Sonic's ass to oblivion and also Info Analysis him, but Sonic's passives of Type 2 Info will essentially provide Sonic his own wincon without having to try.

It's f*cking unbelievable that this has happened twice before, but I'm voting inconclusive AGAIN.
 
Georredannea15 said:
Isn't it basically the layers that determine the difference between very close haxes like Info type 2 and CM type 1?
Click to expand...
They're similar in function but different in application, so it can't really be equalized by layers or having a resistance to one from the other.

This makes this match-up incredibly thematic tho since it's basically Conceptual Manip vs Info Manip
 
Planck69 said:
Kratos' attacks can instantly destroy souls, which are Type 1 concepts in GoW. He's also Invulnerable in all facets of his existence, so you'd need to be able to negate Invulnerability on a conceptual level to deal with him. That or have higher layered conceptual destruction.

He can also absorb those he kills and gain their powers, evolve against hax used against him, time travel on a Low 1-C scale (though Sonic can likely also do this), has layered power nullification and absorption etc.

The information attacks would be a major issue so it'd come down to whose moves are quicker on the draw. Both get faster and stronger over time as well. Frankly, if each can nuke each other with their attacks if they land, its inconclusive.
Click to expand...
couldn't agree more with you, i vote inconclusive.......for the what? 5th time?


really the Sonic GoW unexpected friendly rivalry where no one ever actually beats the other is somehow the most fun i ever had on this site until now, lol
 
ShakeResounding said:
They're similar in function but different in application, so it can't really be equalized by layers or having a resistance to one from the other.

This makes this match-up incredibly thematic tho since it's basically Conceptual Manip vs Info Manip
Click to expand...
I say that because they are very similar in function because we do this for haxes like law manip and causality manip which have the same way of working. Maybe it can be done for these two
Planck69 said:
No. Else a lot of Kratos matches would be "nah, I'd adapt". It sucks a bit but it is what it is.

Voting inconclusive in case that wasn't clear.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that this is a fundamentally unhealthy way.

Isn't invulnerability can be used here? Because it basically protects aspects of existence(mind, concepts... etc) that are affected by Info type 2.
 
Georredannea15 said:
I say that because they are very similar in function because we do this for haxes like law manip and causality manip which have the same way of working. Maybe it can be done for these two

So you're saying that this is a fundamentally unhealthy way.

Isn't invulnerability can be used here? Because it basically protects aspects of existence(mind, concepts... etc) that are affected by Info type 2.
Click to expand...
Dude, you can argue it out with the site itself. I'm personally eh towards it but again, that's how it goes.
 
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