Kral Şakir Ability Removal CRT

[Barbar01]

Also, you don't need to be so aggressive just because there are downgrade threads etc. about the verse you are supporting. Grow up a bit

I think ShionAH is right

 

[ShionAH]

No, that's not what she meant. She clearly says that Necati is just her imagination. That's why what she says doesn't apply to "real" one.

Necati is obviously not her imagination as she literally cannot get rid of it. If it was her imaginatiın she would have some kind of control over him.

Also, you don't need to be so aggressive just because there are downgrade threads etc. about the verse you are supporting. Grow up a bit

Pointless and childish

 

[ShionAH]

You keep saying you're leaving but you never do. All you keep doing is demeaning my attempts to argue instead of listening to me. I'm actually having a better discussion with someone else while all you say is "bad argument" and try to paint me as an idiot.

Never was my intention. Sorry if I came out that way though I still disagree

If you really want to leave, then commit to the decision, and I promise, the discussion will continue as normal.

I dont want to get my verse deleted once again while I am offline like last time. Its literally (I did get help) my verse I have to defend it-

 

[ZawierJ]

• Limited Abstract Existence (Type 1), Incorporeality and Intangibility, Subjective Reality

Alright. This is for Necati. In the CRT where this was supposedly accepted, it turns out this was debunked. Supposedly, Necati, in this scene, appears as a thought in Canan's head. And this, according to the page makes him an abstract thought that quote-on-quote "cannot be touched or killed", which seems like a stretch to me. There were some arguments in the CRT thread that this might not even be the real Necati and just a thought that Canan made up as is common in cartoons as said by one of the mods. Like a character saying "what would X do" and that person appearing in a thought bubble to give them advice. Not actually attributing this to the real character, just the imaginary character thought up by the person. There is this scan of him being able to interact with reality, but I think this would be attributed better to the character who thought him up, or rather, the imaginary version. There's not enough information to imply that this is the real Necati, nor does the real person in reality ever acknowledge this instance. Canan says as much that he's not real, just a figment of her imagination. And it's pretty common in cartoons for someone to argue with their imaginary selves like in Ratatouille where Chef Gusteau's ghost argues with Remy, so I don't see this as justification.

Agree: TheGreatJedi13, Rikimarox2, RaveeCPN (3)
Disagree: ShionAH, Barbar01, Rakih_Elyan, Larssx (4)
Neutral:

I did not examine in detail but it looks good

 

[RaveeCPN]

Necati is obviously not her imagination as she literally cannot get rid of it. If it was her imaginatiın she would have some kind of control over him.

Eh? Canan says "I wonder what Necati would do?" and right after that Necati appears in the Dream Bubble. And after that She says "You are not real, just a dream".

*You are also trying to judge such comedic cartoons in the same way as other serious fantasy series on the wiki. This is the biggest mistake you guys are making. If this was AE Type 1 as you say, then some of the other cartoon characters on the wiki should have it too, but they don't and they shouldn't.

 

[Georredannea15]

Seems good, I agree

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Swear this ( in referral to the ability being accepted not this CRT ) was rejected before.. Anyway I agree.

 

[ShionAH]

Şakir clip




In this scene şakir is thinking about the accident with his father and his classmates making fun of him. Then suddenly out of no where Necati pops up and starts to act like he is not just a thought...and that he is self aware

"What am I doing in this thought?"

Showing that he is in fact self aware

Then right after he literally goes over and grabs the baklava EATING it effecting reality when he is just a thought.

Now lets get to the point of şakir having SR now why this is incorrect for me is because Necati has shown to be self aware in the other scenes as well even if he did not effect the reality like in this scene he has still shown capasity to have some kind of reality in him

"Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality."
Şakir wasn't manipulating anything as seen with his shocked expression plus the other clips showing that Şakir is not needed plus that it would make no sense for Şakir to think and bring Necati into reality but still have a shocked face

Canan clip



Now I gotta agree I made a mistake and forgot to remove the first part since that was rejected so you are right about the first thought being an actual thought (The one where she thinks to herself "What would necati do?" on the other hand the second continumm where Necati literally appears and just starts asking and begging Canan to throw her like she threw the ball. Why is this not a thought you ask? Well thought would have to be in control of the person so Canan somehow not being able to get rid of her OWN thought just makes literally zero sense. Now lets get to Canans statement "Necati uncle you are not even real! You are a dream/thought!" Now which one should we pick here? I think the "thought" translation is a better choice as Necati is in a thought bubble (This is how they refer to it in the verse) So yeah Necati is actually real and can exist as a thought as shown in this clip where Canan cannot even get rid of him (If she had SR or if it was her own thought she would be able to get rid of necati with no problems)

Mirket clip




In this clip Şakir thinks about what Mirket would say and mirket answers...its normal until suddenly Necati appears once again this time out of THIN air with no thought bubble and anything which makes me believe this is might not even be a thought but just might be actual abstract stuff but I don't know lol. Necati starts to literally run around Şakirs head with mirket obviously saying stuff that doesnt make sense as Mirket answers with the most cruicial thing here "Necati! Do you HAVE to be in every scene?!" Clearly referring to Necati always appearing everywhere even in thoughts then another crazy think happens and Necati out of no where creates Remzi inside the thought "Look Look who I am gonna bring" showing that he can actually even manipulate the thoughts by adding people to it and this time Remzi "Oo hello mirket! Who are you circling around?" showing that he is self aware aswell now what he meant here I cannot actually fully understand so I will leave it up to the staff.

==Responding stuff==

Eh? Canan says "I wonder what Necati would do?" and right after that Necati appears in the Dream Bubble. And after that She says "You are not real, just a dream".

The first part is right but she is talking about the second one where its actually a real Necati as shown how self aware he is. Also they are refferred to as bubbles in the verse which commonly means thought bubbles and I think they call it thought bubbles too and that those only exist when they are THINKING not dreaming.

*You are also trying to judge such comedic cartoons in the same way as other serious fantasy series on the wiki. This is the biggest mistake you guys are making. If this was AE Type 1 as you say, then some of the other cartoon characters on the wiki should have it too, but they don't and they shouldn't.

If we go this way every toon force profile will be either nuked or be weaker than a snail. Idk what you want us to do-

I don't really think how he looks is a factor in how real he is. I think the "you are not real" statement is pretty cut and dry. It comes after a statement of the thought-based Necati wanting to interact with reality, and this is a denial of that possibility. "You can't be launched because you're not real." This supports the claim that only Sakir's Subjective Reality can allow his thoughts to interact with reality.

Necati can effect reality but reality cannot effect Necati. Him being a thought that can effect reality is not equal to him being able to be launched by Canan who doesn't have NPI.

Swear this ( in referral to the ability being accepted not this CRT ) was rejected before.

Tf? They only rejected the Low-Godly?

 

[ShionAH]

Peace brother, this is Ramadhan. No need to get heated.

I am trying to but their point is that intagible beings for some reason cannot effect reality no matter what its just so wrong-

 

[ShionAH]

I called a staff member so we can end this

 

[Barbar01]

Eh? Canan says "I wonder what Necati would do?" and right after that Necati appears in the Dream Bubble. And after that She says "You are not real, just a dream".

*You are also trying to judge such comedic cartoons in the same way as other serious fantasy series on the wiki. This is the biggest mistake you guys are making. If this was AE Type 1 as you say, then some of the other cartoon characters on the wiki should have it too, but they don't and they shouldn't.

The phrase "you are not real, you are a dream" in this section is a direct reference to Necati's Abstract, not an anti feat.


If the necati is just the disciple's imagination, how can he eat a wrap? This is obviously AE, it's unreasonable to claim otherwise.


remzi's entered his thought and gave an idea

"Necati be missing in a scene too" Necati's AE is very clear


i think ae 2

 

[ShionAH]

i think ae 2

AE 2 is just wrong Its Limited AE 1

• Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars. Assuming that Necati is an abstract being, it sounds absurd for an abstract being to go and have tea with Remzi after a while. In addition,

It literally limited because he is not always abstract. Read the profile before making claims

• as MaidRips said, it is not certain that he is the real Necati, such incidents are seen many times in cartoons.

Mirkets statement proves its real necati plus Canan

• I want to give an example about this. Phoenix Man has similar feats bu he doesn't have AE for this achievement he was given the ability to telepathy.

This has nothing to do with what we are talking

agree with you. It is just Dream Bubble, AE doesn't make sense to me. Telephaty would be better

Wrong. Its a thought bubble since they are not dreaming they are thinking. How can it be telepathy when he effects reality??

 

[ZawierJ]

• Limited Abstract Existence (Type 1), Incorporeality and Intangibility, Subjective Reality

Alright. This is for Necati. In the CRT where this was supposedly accepted, it turns out this was debunked. Supposedly, Necati, in this scene, appears as a thought in Canan's head. And this, according to the page makes him an abstract thought that quote-on-quote "cannot be touched or killed", which seems like a stretch to me. There were some arguments in the CRT thread that this might not even be the real Necati and just a thought that Canan made up as is common in cartoons as said by one of the mods. Like a character saying "what would X do" and that person appearing in a thought bubble to give them advice. Not actually attributing this to the real character, just the imaginary character thought up by the person. There is this scan of him being able to interact with reality, but I think this would be attributed better to the character who thought him up, or rather, the imaginary version. There's not enough information to imply that this is the real Necati, nor does the real person in reality ever acknowledge this instance. Canan says as much that he's not real, just a figment of her imagination. And it's pretty common in cartoons for someone to argue with their imaginary selves like in Ratatouille where Chef Gusteau's ghost argues with Remy, so I don't see this as justification.

Agree: TheGreatJedi13, Rikimarox2, RaveeCPN (3)
Disagree: ShionAH, Barbar01, Rakih_Elyan, Larssx (4)
Neutral:

Disagree

Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars. Assuming that Necati is an abstract being, it sounds absurd for an abstract being to go and have tea with Remzi after a while. So it can be Limited AE

So if there is Limited Abstract Existence it would be fine

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Şakir clip




In this scene şakir is thinking about the accident with his father and his classmates making fun of him. Then suddenly out of no where Necati pops up and starts to act like he is not just a thought...and that he is self aware

"What am I doing in this thought?"

Showing that he is in fact self aware

Then right after he literally goes over and grabs the baklava EATING it effecting reality when he is just a thought.

Now lets get to the point of şakir having SR now why this is incorrect for me is because Necati has shown to be self aware in the other scenes as well even if he did not effect the reality like in this scene he has still shown capasity to have some kind of reality in him

"Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality."
Şakir wasn't manipulating anything as seen with his shocked expression plus the other clips showing that Şakir is not needed plus that it would make no sense for Şakir to think and bring Necati into reality but still have a shocked face

It's fairly common in cartoons and in media in general, or even in life for thoughts to seem like they have minds of their own. In dreams, we can't exactly completely control what our subconscious dreams up except through lucid dreaming. Take this example from Simpsons where Bart dreams up incarnations of video game characters who tempt him to shoplift as if they have minds of their own, separate from his conscious mind. When you have a nightmare or a weird hallucination, you can still appear shocked. And if your thought became real through subconscious means, you would definitely appear shocked.

Canan clip



Now I gotta agree I made a mistake and forgot to remove the first part since that was rejected so you are right about the first thought being an actual thought (The one where she thinks to herself "What would necati do?" on the other hand the second continumm where Necati literally appears and just starts asking and begging Canan to throw her like she threw the ball. Why is this not a thought you ask? Well thought would have to be in control of the person so Canan somehow not being able to get rid of her OWN thought just makes literally zero sense. Now lets get to Canans statement "Necati uncle you are not even real! You are a dream/thought!" Now which one should we pick here? I think the "thought" translation is a better choice as Necati is in a thought bubble (This is how they refer to it in the verse) So yeah Necati is actually real and can exist as a thought as shown in this clip where Canan cannot even get rid of him (If she had SR or if it was her own thought she would be able to get rid of necati with no problems)

No, it wouldn't. Thoughts can't always be 100% consciously controlled by someone, especially in cartoons where more often than not, it's the subconscious mind arguing with the conscious mind. Like in Ratatoullie where Remy imagines in his mind his portrayal of Chef Gusteau who acts exactly like Gusteau with his own personality, or at least the one Remy envisions him having. He's able to argue with him as well as have back and forth conversations. Referring to the last one... Thoughts can't always go away. Say there's a really annoying thought in your brain. It's not just going to go away because you willed it to. Maybe for a little while, which is what Canan does in the episode with her little toon force wave, but subconsciously, it can always just come back, especially if this portrayal of Necati is just as bumbling as the one Canan based it on. And I never said that Canan had SR, even in that circumstance, because if you looked at my argument, I specifically argued against that.

Mirket clip




In this clip Şakir thinks about what Mirket would say and mirket answers...its normal until suddenly Necati appears once again this time out of THIN air with no thought bubble and anything which makes me believe this is might not even be a thought but just might be actual abstract stuff but I don't know lol. Necati starts to literally run around Şakirs head with mirket obviously saying stuff that doesnt make sense as Mirket answers with the most cruicial thing here "Necati! Do you HAVE to be in every scene?!" Clearly referring to Necati always appearing everywhere even in thoughts then another crazy think happens and Necati out of no where creates Remzi inside the thought "Look Look who I am gonna bring" showing that he can actually even manipulate the thoughts by adding people to it and this time Remzi "Oo hello mirket! Who are you circling around?" showing that he is self aware aswell now what he meant here I cannot actually fully understand so I will leave it up to the staff.

There's no reason why this can't happen in a hallucination or a dream.

==Responding stuff==



The first part is right but she is talking about the second one where its actually a real Necati as shown how self aware he is. Also they are refferred to as bubbles in the verse which commonly means thought bubbles and I think they call it thought bubbles too and that those only exist when they are THINKING not dreaming.

Subjective Reality. Sakir was bringing his imaginary Necati into reality.

If we go this way every toon force profile will be either nuked or be weaker than a snail. Idk what you want us to do-

That's not the problem. The problem is trying to overanalyze abilities to where they're more powerful than they actually are, which is something you have a history of doing with this verse.

Necati can effect reality but reality cannot effect Necati. Him being a thought that can effect reality is not equal to him being able to be launched by Canan who doesn't have NPI.

Referring back to my previous argument that never got addressed because I don't feel like typing all that again.

I don't really think how he looks is a factor in how real he is. I think the "you are not real" statement is pretty cut and dry. It comes after a statement of the thought-based Necati wanting to interact with reality, and this is a denial of that possibility. "You can't be launched because you're not real." This supports the claim that only Sakir's Subjective Reality can allow his thoughts to interact with reality.

Tf? They only rejected the Low-Godly?

I am not gonna respond untill staff come and pick whatever they think is right.

In the thread, the mods did reject Low-Godly regen but they also had problems with the feat as a whole.

@/Dereck03:

So here's not regen cos the first one is just a thought of canan

This is pretty common in cartoon series, I remember watching so many similar scenes when I was young so this point is not valid

He specifically disagrees with that first feat as a whole.

@/DarkDragonMedeus

On second thought, Dereck makes sense.

And DDM agrees with him. The only feat of his that has been accepted is the one where his thought interacts with reality, which can simply be explained as SR on Sakir's part. It was an imaginary Necati that he dreamed up that was able to affect reality because he has Subjective Reality toon force.

 

[ShionAH]

It's fairly common in cartoons and in media in general, or even in life for thoughts to seem like they have minds of their own.

I don't think your thought can reach out and eat food or I don't think it can ask why you are thinking him I also dont think he can reappear forceullfy I also dont remember my thought creating other thoughts that are also self aware.

In dreams, we can't exactly completely control what our subconscious dreams up except through lucid dreaming. Take this example from Simpsons where Bart dreams up incarnations of video game characters who tempt him to shoplift as if they have minds of their own, separate from his conscious mind. When you have a nightmare or a weird hallucination, you can still appear shocked. And if your thought became real through subconscious means, you would definitely appear shocked.

If Şakir was the one who caused Necati to be real with his subjective reality theres no reason whatsoever for him to be shocked because HE did it.

No, it wouldn't. Thoughts can't always be 100% consciously controlled by someone, especially in cartoons where more often than not, it's the subconscious mind arguing with the conscious mind. Like in Ratatoullie where Remy imagines in his mind his portrayal of Chef Gusteau who acts exactly like Gusteau with his own personality, or at least the one Remy envisions him having. He's able to argue with him as well as have back and forth conversations. Referring to the last one... Thoughts can't always go away. Say there's a really annoying thought in your brain. It's not just going to go away because you willed it to. Maybe for a little while, which is what Canan does in the episode with her little toon force wave, but subconsciously, it can always just come back, especially if this portrayal of Necati is just as bumbling as the one Canan based it on. And I never said that Canan had SR, even in that circumstance, because if you looked at my argument, I specifically argued against that.

I don't think you can somehow be annoyed and not have any way to get rid of your OWN thought. Necati is just annoying Canan as she tries to get rid of him while you are right about the first part being a normal thought the second one clearly shows Necati is actually there because of his statements

There's no reason why this can't happen in a hallucination or a dream.

Basically everything in fiction can turn out to be a dream. If Marvel writers said **** it they could make the entire verse a dream of a kid and make the verse 10-C. Not enough to prove this scene is wrong.

Subjective Reality. Sakir was bringing his imaginary Necati into reality.

Then why was he surprised about it? If HE did it he wouldnt be surprised.

That's not the problem. The problem is trying to overanalyze abilities to where they're more powerful than they actually are, which is something you have a history of doing with this verse.

Rude.

Referring back to my previous argument that never got addressed because I don't feel like typing all that again.

I think you are getting this really wrong. Him not being able to be thrown doesnt mean any kind of anti feat because he is INTAGIBLE. He can effect reality but he is still INTAGIBLE. Ghosts cannot be thrown but they can throw stuff. Simple

In the thread, the mods did reject Low-Godly regen but they also had problems with the feat as a whole.

@/Dereck03:
He specifically disagrees with that first feat as a whole.

He literally agrees the second thought was necati appearing as a thought. He only disagreed with regenaration and the first thought being Necati which I already agreed to

@/DarkDragonMedeus

And DDM agrees with him.

DDM agreed with him disagreeing with Low-Godly. Stop taking stuff out of context

The only feat of his that has been accepted is the one where his thought interacts with reality

Wrong. They also agreed with everything else in the CRT which includes:

, which can simply be explained as SR on Sakir's part. It was an imaginary Necati that he dreamed up that was able to affect reality because he has Subjective Reality toon force.

Şakir was surprised and confused on how Necati did this. If he was the one manipulating it to make Necati real with no reason whatsoever then why was he surprised? If Şakir is the only reason Necati can do this thought thing then how did he appear in Mirkets scene and Canans scene? Theres so many holes here

 

[ShionAH]

We just gotta wait for some staff members Ig. Call them OP

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I don't think your thought can reach out and eat food or I don't think it can ask why you are thinking him I also dont think he can reappear forceullfy I also dont remember my thought creating other thoughts that are also self aware.

Subjective Reality. And by doing so subconsciously, yes.

If Şakir was the one who caused Necati to be real with his subjective reality theres no reason whatsoever for him to be shocked because HE did it.

You did not read my paragraph explaining how it could be done.

I don't think you can somehow be annoyed and not have any way to get rid of your OWN thought. Necati is just annoying Canan as she tries to get rid of him while you are right about the first part being a normal thought the second one clearly shows Necati is actually there because of his statements

If that's true, why do you keep using the first part being normal as justification?

Basically everything in fiction can turn out to be a dream. If Marvel writers said **** it they could make the entire verse a dream of a kid and make the verse 10-C. Not enough to prove this scene is wrong.

That is not... even remotely how that works. There's a difference between establishing a whole universe and someone thinking up a little Heffalumps and Woozles fantasy about his friends appearing above his head.

Then why was he surprised about it? If HE did it he wouldnt be surprised.

Because he did it subconsciously.

I think you are getting this really wrong. Him not being able to be thrown doesnt mean any kind of anti feat because he is INTAGIBLE. He can effect reality but he is still INTAGIBLE. Ghosts cannot be thrown but they can throw stuff. Simple

You just said that the first example is just a normal thought.

He literally agrees the second thought was necati appearing as a thought. He only disagreed with regenaration and the first thought being Necati which I already agreed to

Which is. What I said. That's why I'm saying the first example has already been disproved and the second example needs to be disproven.

The only feat of his that has been accepted is the one where his thought interacts with reality.

DDM agreed with him disagreeing with Low-Godly. Stop taking stuff out of context

But, I'm not...? He specifically says that the first example is just a normal thought and everything that can be applicable to that feat is invalid.

Wrong. They also agreed with everything else in the CRT which includes:

Which is what I'm trying to disprove because everything now hinges on the second feat which is the only one that has things going for it at the moment.

Şakir was surprised and confused on how Necati did this. If he was the one manipulating it to make Necati real with no reason whatsoever then why was he surprised? If Şakir is the only reason Necati can do this thought thing then how did he appear in Mirkets scene and Canans scene? Theres so many holes here

Because he did it subconsciously. You yourself admit that Canan's scene was just a regular thought. The mods agree that it was a regular thought. Why are you still trying to use it as justification?

 

[ShionAH]

Subjective Reality. And by doing so subconsciously, yes.

You did not read my paragraph explaining how it could be done.

If that's true, why do you keep using the first part being normal as justification?

That is not... even remotely how that works. There's a difference between establishing a whole universe and someone thinking up a little Heffalumps and Woozles fantasy about his friends appearing above his head.

I disagree still there too much assumptions here. Lets just wait for the staff

Because he did it subconsciously.

You just said that the first example is just a normal thought.

Which is. What I said. That's why I'm saying the first example has already been disproved and the second example needs to be disproven.


But, I'm not...? He specifically says that the first example is just a normal thought and everything that can be applicable to that feat is invalid.

Which is what I'm trying to disprove because everything now hinges on the second feat which is the only one that has things going for it at the moment.

Because he did it subconsciously. You yourself admit that Canan's scene was just a regular thought. The mods agree that it was a regular thought. Why are you still trying to use it as justification?

I only said the FIRST thought of Canan was normal. The second one was AGREED by staff to be a real case. We are going in circles so call staff

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

currently neutral

Possibly leaning with disagree

Especially when the op haven't even given a single scan to counter it not being real and it only being an imagination... About the affecting reality and stuff

 

[ShionAH]

currently neutral

Possibly leaning with disagree

Especially when the op haven't even given a single scan to counter it not being real and it only being an imagination... About the affecting reality and stuff

Thank you monkey very cool

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Agree

 

[Flashlight237]

I can see this being Subjective Reality still, but I can agree with the other abilities' removal.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I disagree with the OP after reading the whole thread. Shion's points seem more convincing to me.

 

[ZawierJ]

There's not enough information to imply that this is the real Necati, nor does the real person in reality ever acknowledge this instance.

There is. He could eat from the food on the table when he appeared in a bubble. This means that he is not a dream, he can interact with reality, that means, Necati is real in that scene. (I can't send a scene because I'm don't have much time to write this. I think someone posted it above.)