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Konoha's Past Flash Vs A Flashy Flash

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Lightning_XXI

Lightning_XXI

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Tobirama gets BFR'd and ends up in the OPM world. Seeking information and curious about the futuristic cities, he gets in contact with the Hero Association describing himself as a Ninja, which made them send Flashy Flash to talk with him. However, upon seeing each other face to face, Flash heard from Tobirama that he is the "leader" of a Village of Ninjas, and instantly believed he was from the infamous ninja village, and that Tobiaram's mission is to kill him as many others have tried, using the Association to send him by saying he was a ninja. Meanwhile, when Tobirama heard that Flash "killed the Ninja Village", he thought it was about Konoha, his own village where he once ruled as Hokage, the leader, and vowed to kill Flash to make him pay for such crime

- Both at High 7-A, Alive Tobirama is 2.65 Gigatons (Upscales from Naruto's 2.4 Gigatons Calc) while Flashy Flash is 2.4 Gigatons

- Speed isn't equalized, Tobirama is 0.32 C while Flashy Flash is 0.55 C

- They are in character

- They start 150 meters apart

When one of them win the fight, they will know the truth about each others and will become allies, don't worry

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Tobirama Senju

My brother believed that the village was something that demolish the boundaries between clans. Well, in the end, it wasn't that simple... My brother was too soft... and Madara too dangerous... My role as Second Hokage was to mediate between them while protecting and reinforcing the...
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vsbattles.fandom.com

Flashy Flash

Flashy Flash (閃せん光こうのフラッシュ, Senkō no Furasshu?) is an S-Class, rank 13, a superhero for the Heroes Association. As his nickname would imply, he's well known for his extraordinary speed. He was the classmate of Sonic in the 44th period of the Ninja Village. For some reason, he destroyed the Ninja...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Tobirama: 11 (UchihaSlayer, Popted, Pain, Apies, King, Cisco, Shadow, Mario, Lord, M3X and Hasty)

Flash: 9 (Tural, Phoenks, Kachon, Franako, Magmag, Cryo, Harith, Tauan and Arceus)

Inconclusive:
 
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In character FF wastes no time to Slice Tobirama's head off with superior speed, FF ftw.
Also sharp objects in Naruto are like Water to DF users in OP.
 
I will give this one to Flashy Flash. I don't watch Naruto so I might be missing something but from the looks of his page, only paralysis inducement is truly a threat. That's it. Fighting ability wise they should be relative. 0.55c feat was performed when Flashy Flash wasn't going all out. And he has lifting strength advantage. He scales to 2.4 Gigatons without his sword. With his sword heavily damaging Tobirama shouldn't be a problem.
 
Popted2 said:
what would happen if the fight was speed equalized?
Click to expand...
I'm unsure, but I only made this fight because it was possible without the need to equalize anything

Without it feels an actual fight, respecting every stat

Anyway, their gap is under 2x, they are capable of fighting each other just fine, with Tobirama having an AP and Hax advantage
 
Idk. But Flash would still have a speed advantage with his techniques if the webcomic and Sonic's words are anything to go by. Unfortunately, the former shouldn't be taken into account.
 
Magmag said:
didn't a relativistic-rel+ obito statue a faster version of Tobirama? (not super familiar with everything in naruto)
Click to expand...
Tobirama used that to place his paper bombs on him, and it was a slower version actually (Tobirama was an Edo Tensei), Alive Tobirama is faster. The same Edo Tobirama reacted to Sage Madara, who’s far faster than Base Madara who made the 0.32 C feat

Flash is also higher than his own calc, and it's arbitrary to guess who scales higher than the other in relation to their calcs, so instead of assuming numbers or something, we should just use the values.

Flash is > 0.55 C and Tobirama is > 0.32 C
 
Lightning_XXI said:
Tobirama gets BFR'd and ends up in the OPM world. Seeking information and curious about the futuristic cities, he gets in contact with the Hero Association describing himself as a Ninja, which made them send Flashy Flash to talk with him. However, upon seeing each other face to face, Flash heard from Tobirama that he is the "leader" of a Village of Ninjas, and instantly believed he was from the infamous ninja village, and that Tobiaram's mission is to kill him as many others have tried, using the Association to send him by saying he was a ninja. Meanwhile, when Tobirama heard that Flash "killed the Ninja Village", he thought it was about Konoha, his own village where he once ruled as Hokage, the leader, and vowed to kill Flash to make him pay for such crime
Click to expand...
Nice plot, that's for sure

hmm...

Flashy is a bit stronger and faster, but Tobirama have more fighting experience perhaps? his abilities also have more versatility than Flash ones
 
Lightning_XXI said:
Tobirama used that to place his paper bombs on him, and it was a slower version actually (Tobirama was an Edo Tensei), Alive Tobirama is faster. The same Edo Tobirama reacted to Sage Madara, who’s far faster than Base Madara who made the 0.32 C feat

Flash is also higher than his own calc, and it's arbitrary to guess who scales higher than the other in relation to their calcs, so instead of assuming numbers or something, we should just use the values.

Flash is > 0.55 C and Tobirama is > 0.32 C
Click to expand...
I guess but if we're going by this standard flashy still swiftly finishes from my pov.
 
Honestly, I think I'll go with Tobirama here.

I'll start with the stats.
Tobirama has an AP advantage as is, but there's actually a bit of a scaling chain going on. EMS Sasuke scales to Post-Kurama Link KCM Naruto, who upscales his regular KCM self, making them both 2.65 Gigatons.
Edo Tobirama scales above EMS Sasuke via flexing his finger and aura.
He didn't use any moves, Ninjutsu, or anything. He just flexed his aura lol. Obviously with actual offensive moves he'd be significantly superior. And obviously Alive Tobirama is much stronger than Edo Tobirama.
So the chain is as follows:
Alive Tobirama > Edo Tobirama (casually) > EMS Sasuke ~ Kurama Link KCM Naruto = 2.65 Gigatons

Now let's move onto speed, shall we? Flash is > 0.55c from what I gathered, which is around a 1.71x advantage on paper. It's a decent speed advantage, but nothing really fight ending or blitz worthy. Additionally, Tobirama once again has a bit of a scaling chain going on.
His movement speed isn't a whole lot higher than 0.28c, scaling to other top tiers like Madara and Hashirama. But it's in reaction and combat speed where Tobirama shines a bit.
His reactions and combat speed scale to people like Juubito and Sage Mode Rinnegan Madara, both of whom significantly upscale a 0.32c value.
Let's start with Juubito. He's faster than BSM Naruto, who's much faster than Kurama Mode Naruto, who can blitz Edo Madara from a significant distance away at top speed. He's also much faster than Hashirama and Tobirama's pure movement speed, and both are comparable to Edo Madara.

As for Rinnegan SM Madara, he could blitz all the Bijū, including Bijū Mode Naruto. And he's got a scaling chain above his Edo self that goes as follows:
SM Rinnegan >~ SM > Blind Madara > Edo Madara
Now Tobirama did lose to this version of Madara, but he did successfully react to and dodge his attacks nonetheless.

So as we can see, Tobirama's reactions and combat speed consistently allow him to keep up with characters who are significantly faster than his movement speed, and are capable of blitzing people comparable to or even superior to himself. I think that's more than enough to cover a less than 2x gap. Flash will still have an edge in movement speed, but I think Tobirama can still keep up via his combat speed and reactions.

Now let's move on to why I actually see Tobirama winning this thing.
First off, Tobirama is extremely intelligent. He's an actual genius inside and outside of combat, with decades of experience on the battlefield. He's very pragmatic, ruthless, quick witted, and stealthy.
His fighting style revolves around analyzing his opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them as best he can.
For instance, when he had trouble with the Sharingan's prediction abilities, he devised a plan to obscure its field of vision and invented a teleportation slash move to sneak attack one of the best Sharingan users of his generation.
Likewise, against Obito, he was constantly thinking on his feet and coming up with strategies to exploit his weaknesses, as rare as they were.

Here, I can see him using clones as diversions and then sneak attacking Flash using his Hiraishin Slash, which is a teleportation slash technique. This would all but guarantee a one-shot.

Likewise, he can also use one of the clones as a weapon by using his Tandem Explosive Tags on the clone, which is a technique that allows him to summon a chain of explosive tags and trap his opponent in a near endless wave of explosions that are far stronger than his usual attack capabilities.

He also has many Water Style techniques, including Water Dragons, Water waves, water walls, and extremely high speed sharp water needles that he uses to to try and catch his opponent off-guard and hit their vitals.

He also has excellent Sensory abilities, which will help him keep track of his opponent, and minimize the risk of getting caught off-guard.

And as I mentioned, he can create shadow clones for a variety of purposes ranging from diversions to actual aides in combat.

Finally, his crown jewel is the FTG, the same teleportation Jutsu that Minato later perfected. This will allow him to teleport out of pretty much any bad situation, and if he manages to place a teleportation seal on Flash, then he can actually freely teleport to him whenever he chooses.
He also has an offensive application called the Hiraishin Slash, which is a teleportation slash technique like I mentioned before, making it pretty damn difficult to avoid.

So yeah, Tobirama has the AP, versatility, intelligence, and experience advantage, and he can keep up speed wise. I think he takes it.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Honestly, I think I'll go with Tobirama here.

I'll start with the stats.
Tobirama has an AP advantage as is, but there's actually a bit of a scaling chain going on. EMS Sasuke scales to Post-Kurama Link KCM Naruto, who upscales his regular KCM self, making them both 2.65 Gigatons.
Edo Tobirama scales above EMS Sasuke via flexing his finger and aura.
He didn't use any moves, Ninjutsu, or anything. He just flexed his aura lol. Obviously with actual offensive moves he'd be significantly superior. And obviously Alive Tobirama is much stronger than Edo Tobirama.
So the chain is as follows:
Alive Tobirama > Edo Tobirama (casually) > EMS Sasuke ~ Kurama Link KCM Naruto = 2.65 Gigatons

Now let's move onto speed, shall we? Flash is > 0.55c from what I gathered, which is around a 1.71x advantage on paper. It's a decent speed advantage, but nothing really fight ending or blitz worthy. Additionally, Tobirama once again has a bit of a scaling chain going on.
His movement speed isn't a whole lot higher than 0.28c, scaling to other top tiers like Madara and Hashirama. But it's in reaction and combat speed where Tobirama shines a bit.
His reactions and combat speed scale to people like Juubito and Sage Mode Rinnegan Madara, both of whom significantly upscale a 0.32c value.
Let's start with Juubito. He's faster than BSM Naruto, who's much faster than Kurama Mode Naruto, who can blitz Edo Madara from a significant distance away at top speed. He's also much faster than Hashirama and Tobirama's pure movement speed, and both are comparable to Edo Madara.

As for Rinnegan SM Madara, he could blitz all the Bijū, including Bijū Mode Naruto. And he's got a scaling chain above his Edo self that goes as follows:
SM Rinnegan >~ SM > Blind Madara > Edo Madara
Now Tobirama did lose to this version of Madara, but he did successfully react to and dodge his attacks nonetheless.

So as we can see, Tobirama's reactions and combat speed consistently allow him to keep up with characters who are significantly faster than his movement speed, and are capable of blitzing people comparable to or even superior to himself. I think that's more than enough to cover a less than 2x gap. Flash will still have an edge in movement speed, but I think Tobirama can still keep up via his combat speed and reactions.

Now let's move on to why I actually see Tobirama winning this thing.
First off, Tobirama is extremely intelligent. He's an actual genius inside and outside of combat, with decades of experience on the battlefield. He's very pragmatic, ruthless, quick witted, and stealthy.
His fighting style revolves around analyzing his opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them as best he can.
For instance, when he had trouble with the Sharingan's prediction abilities, he devised a plan to obscure its field of vision and invented a teleportation slash move to sneak attack one of the best Sharingan users of his generation.
Likewise, against Obito, he was constantly thinking on his feet and coming up with strategies to exploit his weaknesses, as rare as they were.

Here, I can see him using clones as diversions and then sneak attacking Flash using his Hiraishin Slash, which is a teleportation slash technique. This would all but guarantee a one-shot.

Likewise, he can also use one of the clones as a weapon by using his Tandem Explosive Tags on the clone, which is a technique that allows him to summon a chain of explosive tags and trap his opponent in a near endless wave of explosions that are far stronger than his usual attack capabilities.

He also has many Water Style techniques, including Water Dragons, Water waves, water walls, and extremely high speed sharp water needles that he uses to to try and catch his opponent off-guard and hit their vitals.

He also has excellent Sensory abilities, which will help him keep track of his opponent, and minimize the risk of getting caught off-guard.

And as I mentioned, he can create shadow clones for a variety of purposes ranging from diversions to actual aides in combat.

Finally, his crown jewel is the FTG, the same teleportation Jutsu that Minato later perfected. This will allow him to teleport out of pretty much any bad situation, and if he manages to place a teleportation seal on Flash, then he can actually freely teleport to him whenever he chooses.
He also has an offensive application called the Hiraishin Slash, which is a teleportation slash technique like I mentioned before, making it pretty damn difficult to avoid.

So yeah, Tobirama has the AP, versatility, intelligence, and experience advantage, and he can keep up speed wise. I think he takes it.
Click to expand...
On thing ur discounting in ur speed scaling with covering a 2x gap is that FF scales well above his .55c calc. Which the gap in speed once again gets bigger for FF.
 
Magmag said:
On thing ur discounting in ur speed scaling with covering a 2x gap is that FF scales well above his .55c calc. Which the gap in speed once again gets bigger for FF.
Click to expand...
Vaguely scaling above a value isn't the same as genuine blitz worthy differences, which Tobirama's chain is full of. I wouldn't say Tobirama's combat speed is faster than Flash, but he can definitely keep up here.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Vaguely scaling above a value isn't the same as genuine blitz worthy differences, which Tobirama's chain is full of. I wouldn't say Tobirama's combat speed is faster than Flash, but he can definitely keep up here.
Click to expand...
Vaguely…his calced feat was setting up and statuing 2 rel opponents and proceeding to walk off from it and pose.
 
Magmag said:
Vaguely…his calced feat was setting up and statuing 2 rel opponents and proceeding to walk off from it and pose.
Click to expand...
Yes, and the value of said feat is 0.55c, regardless of how glamorously or casually it was done.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Vaguely scaling above a value isn't the same as genuine blitz worthy differences, which Tobirama's chain is full of. I wouldn't say Tobirama's combat speed is faster than Flash, but he can definitely keep up here.
Click to expand...
It isn't just that, Flash's profile also uses Saitama's impressions on him for his speed, since he said Flash was "Kinda Fast" while Geryuganshoop's "Sub-Light" attacks were a "bad joke" for him

UchihaSlayer96 said:
Yes, and the value of said feat is 0.55c, regardless of how glamorously or casually it was done.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was done by a "Flashy Kick" attack, however he has the Maximum Speed Flashy Kicks, used on Blast, and the Flowing Shadow Feet, used on Garou, both attacks show 0.55 C isn't his max speed as one literally mentions it and the other is showcased as a faster movement, used on harder situations

Like I said previosuly, both him and Tobirama are well higher than their speed calc value, and I don't think we can say who scales higher than the other without being arbitrary at some point, we should just follow their 1.71 gap

Alive Tobirama > Edo Tobirama (casually) > EMS Sasuke ~ Kurama Link KCM Naruto = 2.65 Gigatons
Click to expand...

While I don't disagree with Tobirama having an advantage, Flashy's 2.4 Gigatons value is physically, his sword, Instakill, can cut people comparable to his own physicals in a single slash, as he did to Gale and Hellfire, and Platinum said Flash was weakened by not having it

Flash's durability was high enough to tank dozens of attacks (And more off screen) of Platinum Sperm, who scales way higher than his Golden Form, who scales to 2.4 Gigatons (I don't know if he scales higher or equally), I don't agree with a Hiraishin Giri being enough to one shot giving their gap in AP is really small

Edit: Going the profiles, he scales higher

So it's Flashy Flash = Platinum > Golden = Sun Blade > 2.4 Gigatons

You mentioned how smart Tobirama, allow me to showcase Flash's feats on that

He is a very observant fighter, capable of telling two previous ninjas were monsters all along, and after that, lure them into a position were he could one shot both at the same time, he could tell Saitama's presence didn't matched with anyone if the monster association. He is stated to be the most skilled hero, and could keep up with the likes of Garou, who defeated Silver Fang, a 81 years old martial arts master, while sleeping
 
Lightning_XXI said:
It isn't just that, Flash's profile also uses Saitama's impressions on him for his speed, since he said Flash was "Kinda Fast" while Geryuganshoop's "Sub-Light" attacks were a "bad joke" for him


Yes, it was done by a "Flashy Kick" attack, however he has the Maximum Speed Flashy Kicks, used on Blast, and the Flowing Shadow Feet, used on Garou, both attacks show 0.55 C isn't his max speed as one literally mentions it and the other is showcased as a faster movement, used on harder situations

Like I said previosuly, both him and Tobirama are well higher than their speed calc value, and I don't think we can say who scales higher than the other without being arbitrary at some point, we should just follow their 1.71 gap
Click to expand...
I didn't claim Tobirama was faster. I said him being able to keep up with characters who are several blitz layers above the 0.32c value in the scaling chain should allow him to be able to keep up with Flash in combat, and I stand by that for now.
Lightning_XXI said:
While I don't disagree with Tobirama having an advantage, Flashy's 2.4 Gigatons value is physically, his sword, Instakill, can cut people comparable to his own physicals in a single slash, as he did to Gale and Hellfire, and Platinum said Flash was weakened by not having it

Flash's durability was high enough to tank dozens of attacks (And more off screen) of Platinum Sperm, who scales way higher than his Golden Form, who scales to 2.4 Gigatons (I don't know if he scales higher or equally), I don't agree with a Hiraishin Giri being enough to one shot giving their gap in AP is really small

Edit: Going the profiles, he scales higher

So it's Flashy Flash = Platinum > Golden = Sun Blade > 2.4 Gigatons
Click to expand...
It's not a one-shot worthy AP advantage or anything, but it's definitely there.
Tobirama upscales a higher value to a higher degree (going off the chain you showcased at least)

I don't agree with a Hiraishin Giri being enough to one shot giving their gap in AP is really small
Click to expand...
Perhaps I should've worded it differently. I didn't mean he'd one-shot him from an AP sense. I meant that with it he'd be able to deliver a lethal blow, which is exactly what he did to Izuna, someone comparable to him in strength, if not somewhat superior.
Lightning_XXI said:
You mentioned how smart Tobirama, allow me to showcase Flash's feats on that

He is a very observant fighter, capable of telling two previous ninjas were monsters all along, and after that, lure them into a position were he could one shot both at the same time, he could tell Saitama's presence didn't matched with anyone if the monster association. He is stated to be the most skilled hero, and could keep up with the likes of Garou, who defeated Silver Fang, a 81 years old martial arts master, while sleeping
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I didn't say Flash was dumb, I was just pointing out Tobirama's strong suits.
 
Magmag said:
Yeah and Tobirama is still .32c feat wise by ur logic. So FF still blitzes off feats.
Click to expand...
Dude, what? It's like you're not reading any of what I said.
A 2x difference isn't even a blitz worthy difference regardless.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Dude, what? It's like you're not reading any of what I said.
A 2x difference isn't even a blitz worthy difference regardless.
Click to expand...
Lotta One piece characters contradict that statement.
Also gale and wind are half of tobiramas speed. A combo of them got statued so seems pretty blitz worthy to me.
 
The "blitz gap" varies from series to series actually, indeed in some of them, small gaps are enough to blitz while other series don't follow that logic

ZoroNotZolo said:
Yo, why are you bringing up One Piece?
Click to expand...
Hey bro, after the other posts, you keep ur vote ? I wanted to explain Flash after Uchiha's post but u voted before, what do you think of the fight now ?
 
Yeah, you guys are just arguing physicals and stats in that regard as of now. I don't think very many of the hax of Tobirama were accounted for, either. The only one I saw really be mentioned was his FTG.
 
Flash blitzed two people moving at 0.18c so I'm inclined to think his speed and strength would be too much for Tobi despite his versaility.
 
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