Knuckles vs Donkey Kong Death Battle

[HomestuckLover1]

What says Sonic is even trying during most of their fights? Sonic has been shown that he can hold back to a large degree.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Even at 1%, he'd be Sub-Relativistic.

 

[Davy0]

I already know all this crap because I either worked hard finding the statements or the feats to find how fast Sonic was. You're saying that he holds back against Knuckles, yet Knuckles is perfectly capable of fighting characters who have gained a very similar movement ability to Sonic, such as Emerl who copied Sonic's techniques and speed in combat before fighting him. Sonic was Lightspeed even before that.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

also they was this one thing about knuckles punching the ground and lava coming out but i don't if it was fire manipulation or not

here are two places it is said

here and here

That's fire, and the reason for that is Knuckles causing friction with hydrogen.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Even at 1%, he'd be Sub-Relativistic.

Sonic can walk without flying into the sun. This is a moot point.

 

[Davy0]

That's not how friction works. Punching the ground to cause a volcanic eruption can't be done with friction.

In the instance of Knuckles punching so hard that he literally smashes the Hydrogen to create friction, he literally creates an explosion with a lot of power. But that power doesn't mean he creates something akin to the Volcanic Dunk, it means he causes an earth quake with enough force to bring the magma to the surface from the planet, or manipulates it as fire.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

I already know all this crap because I either worked hard finding the statements or the feats to find how fast Sonic was. You're saying that he holds back against Knuckles, yet Knuckles is perfectly capable of fighting characters who have gained a very similar movement ability to Sonic, such as Emerl who copied Sonic's techniques and speed in combat before fighting him. Sonic was Lightspeed even before that.

Okay then. I believe you now. I just have one question though. What exactly makes Game Sonic lightspeed?

 

[HomestuckLover1]

That's not how friction works. Punching the ground to cause a volcanic eruption can't be done with friction.

In the instance of Knuckles punching so hard that he literally smashes the Hydrogen to create friction, he literally creates an explosion with a lot of power. But that power doesn't mean he creates something akin to the Volcanic Dunk, it means he causes an earth quake with enough force to bring the magma to the surface from the planet, or manipulates it as fire.

Nothing even says in game that he's causing a volcanic eruption though, unless of course you can show me something in game that proves this.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It is stated in the Guiness Book of World Records, The History of Sonic and Sonic considers the Cyan Laser Wisp slow in Sonic Colors.

For what's likely better clarification, just look on Sonic's profile.

 

[Darkness552]

go to sonic's page you'll find some things about why he is lightspeed

as for knuckles actually i do think its just straight fire manipulation mainly because of the fact he could do it on air ships

 

[HomestuckLover1]

It is stated in the Guiness Book of World Records, The History of Sonic and Sonic considers the Cyan Laser Wisp slow in Sonic Colors.

For what's likely better clarification, just look on Sonic's profile.

I see an unproven statement and another unproven statement. How do we know the Laser Wisp is an actual laser?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Again, look on Sonic's profile. The History of Sonic is an official thing. How do we know this version of Jupiter is as far away from Earth as ours? The Cyan Laser Wisp is considered a real laser because Sonic is considered Lightspeed by other sources.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Again, look on Sonic's profile. The History of Sonic is an official thing. How do we know this version of Jupiter is as far away from Earth as ours?

It's all just word of God though. It means nothing without actual feats.

 

[The_Everlasting]

We do not disregard Word of God unless it's contradictory.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

Again, look on Sonic's profile. The History of Sonic is an official thing. How do we know this version of Jupiter is as far away from Earth as ours? The Cyan Laser Wisp is considered a real laser because Sonic is considered Lightspeed by other sources.

So the Cyan Laser is considered an actual laser because Sonic said it's almost faster than him, and Sonic is called FTL by word of God with no feats to back it up? That sounds like a continuous loop of unproven statements.

 

[Davy0]

It is stated in the Guiness Book of World Records, The History of Sonic and Sonic considers the Cyan Laser Wisp slow in Sonic Colors.

For what's likely better clarification, just look on Sonic's profile.

I see an unproven statement and another unproven statement. How do we know the Laser Wisp is an actual laser?

Unproven statements... Ah so multiple pieces of word of God are unproven statements. The fact that he reflects off prisms, and is redirected as a continuous stream isn't enough to prove it as a laser either.

Also, Hyper-go-on Energy is only taken at a portion of a Wisps power. Wisps without "helping" Sonic can use their powers whenever they wish to. Cyan Laser was running past Sonic in its laser form, and Sonic had actually seen and ran after it, capturing it.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

I see an unproven statement and another unproven statement. How do we know the Laser Wisp is an actual laser?
Unproven statements... Ah so multiple pieces of word of God are unproven statements. The fact that he reflects off prisms, and is redirected as a continuous stream isn't enough to prove it as a laser either.

Well there. Thank you. An actual reason for me to believe it's a laser. That's all I wanted.

 

[Davy0]

It doesn't really matter because multiple sources from WoG tell us that Sonic is the Speed of Light without the Laser wisp. The fact that he catches a Cyan Laser wisp casually also proves that.

Edit: The feat itself.

 

[HomestuckLover1]

It doesn't really matter because multiple sources from WoG tell us that Sonic is the Speed of Light without the Laser wisp. The fact that he catches a Cyan Laser wisp casually also proves that.

I never said Sonic needed it to be FTL. I know he caught one.

I'm still not entirely seeing how Knuckles should get scaling from Sonic though. He's been shown to have hugely varying degrees of speed at certain points.

 

[Davy0]

It doesn't matter. The mere fact that he could keep up with Sonic in Sonic Heroes means that he can run at a level that is capable of Sonic's speed. An example of gameplay mechanics. Sonic is moving at lightspeed while in laser form. Why are we capable of percieving it.

 

[Davy0]

About to show in all the instances of Sonic Heroes where Knuckles keeps up with Tails and Sonic with no issues.

Here, here and here .

 

[Unclechairman]

We're still arguing over whether or not Knuckles can be called an equal to Sonic?

If he's not an equal and can't be scaled to Sonic, how do we rate him? Do like I did with Tails and assume he's not too far behind Sonic and tier him as such?

At this rate, I fear people may start arguing that Blaze isn't an equal or can't be scaled to Sonic, either.

Though, honestly, probably the main reason we're arguing over this is because Knuckles hasn't been portrayed seriously in ages.

 

[Darkness552]

knuckles should be scaled as others including blaze, shadow, etc

HomestuckLover1 believes he shouldn't because sonic holds back all the time which is not a great way to say why he shouldn't be scaled or we would be having this same convo with Shadow, Silver and Blaze

 

[Davy0]

Then should we say that Sonic is far stronger than City Busting. I mean he did beat U. Emerl and P. Chaos who both had planet busting powers. Huehue. Do we really wish to go said routes on this. Because all it sounds to me, is that we're not giving the Sonic Verse a fair shake.

 

[Darkness552]

idk about that but if you want to convince someone for an upgrade you should make a thread because i think i might close this one since the result was already said

 

[Davy0]

It wouldn't go through anyway. But if Sonic or anyone else beats one more planet buster without super forms, I'm gonna start getting very skeptical at these "flukes and outliers" going around.

 

[Darkness552]

nvm

Edit: just saw what Sheoth said in another thread

so the discussion will live on

 

[Darkness552]

Well the dB came out today

So they took out super knuckles because they thought strong kong (I think that is what it is called) could counter it which I disagree with

Also they counted sonic boom..... need I say more

And they got knuckles speed all wrong

So basically because of this dk won

 

[Davy0]

Counter HYPER Knuckles?

Holy s**t I'm never taking these serious again.

Guessing they don't understand this guy can fight on par with Sonic either...

(sighs)

 

[Quincy_King]

^You should never take death Battle seriously

 

[The_Everlasting]

The amount of truth in that is unreal, I stopped taking them seriously with Link vs. Cloud.

 

[Davy0]

I can only shake my head. Although for the Link thing, after looking at a lot of his feats, and if they wer eusing Composite feats and such, I can agree. Composite Link matched against Demise after all, and Ganondorf was a heavy hitter. Cloud only had speed when it came to Link's utility in how he used his weaponry, so that makes some sense.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well, the Death Battle was released a few months before Skyward Sword and over a year before Hyrule Historia was translated into english (Note that I don't believe Demise is Planet Level but that's another story). Other than that, Cloud's limit breaks should be enough to defeat any incarnation of Link (And he's faster). The other thing is that they completely lied about Cloud's fightning style, saying it was "slow and predictable" (Only Sephiroth ever said that and he only did because they fought before) and consisted of "overpowering his foes" (The bosses in VII require just as much, if not more strategy than bosses in Zelda).

 

[Davy0]

They don't take care to create quality as we desire it, they make their own assumptions and don't really care what they use. I'm just gonna watch and treat it like that 60 second battle. At least it's entertaining.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You mean One Minute Melee? Yeah, and they have an excuse for the results there, since they don't do research (Which makes me wonder what happens when they use a character they already used in a Death Battle).

 

[Davy0]

Just... stupid... I'll their (Death Battle Team) excuse be that they work on other projects and don't have time to really look thoroughly like they should. So always take it with a grain of salt, or the whole bowl. Did like the Brando versus Clock Maid though, that was pretty awesome, so was the Terry versus Burai one.

 

[Numbersguy]

Looks like Knuckles... just chuckled. Or Knuckles... couldn't take out the dong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

Somehow, I agree. Base Knuckles will lose, despite being WAY faster DK could just oen shot him with a punch.

Just compare their stats...

Knuckles the Echidna (Canon)

Donkey Kong

Destructive Capacity goes to Kong.

Speed goes to Knuckles.

Strength goes to Kong.

Durability goes to Kong.

See?, Kong was going to win at the end,

 

[Darkness552]

yea Dk would beat Base canon Knuckles but there reasons for not adding Knuckles Super form are terrible and they still messed up Knuckles speed

 

[Numbersguy]

Yeah I know, but it doesn't matter, they still got it right in the conditions that they wanted:

Base Knuckles vs DK: DK wins if he lands a single clear hit.

 

[Davy0]

That more depends. Destructive Capacity by feats, yes, destructive capacity by scaling? It goes to Knuckles. Knuckles is superior to the strength that Sonic has. Sonic has defeated both Perfect Chaos and U. Emerl in his base. Perfect Chaos is a being that has the power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, Planet Destroyers (at least). Both WoG and Eggman wishing to use Emerl by creating a weapon that could destroy stars (he built the Final Egg Blaster to make a link with Emerl) also lends to the credibility that Emerl was a legitimate threat at least on the scale as a Planet Buster, the Egg Blaster could destroy numerous Solar Systems in a single blast.

Speed? Knuckles is capable of reacting and stalemating Sonic in battle. Sonic however comments on Knuckles lack of quickness multiple times which lends to his reactions only being that of Relativitistic + to Light Speed compared to Sonic who is Lightspeed+. He takes the cake on that one because they don't check the feats of characters more closely, they even used Sonic Boom Knuckles to scale him, and although it gave him feats, it was already said by WoG that this Knuckles was an Alternate Version that had no standing with the original one.

Strength? Physical Lifting feats go to Kong.

Durability? His Durability is comparable if not greater than Sonics, he's known for his Endurance and Physical Power, compared to Sonic's Speed and Agility. Basically, two opposites of the same coin.

And if anyone wishes to question the rivalry between Sonic and Knuckles, you know what I'll do. I'll give you more than you ever wanted or needed to know about such a thing. So let's stop that train from even getting started.