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KnowledgeÔëáIntelligence (Possible Intelligence revision?)

What's more important for intelligence sections is the reasoning behind placing people at x level anyways. Two people can be ranked at the same thing and yet be vastly different from one another in all kinds of ways.
 
DontTalk and Wokistan are probably correct.
 
A l s o w h a t c h a r a c t e r s a r e y o u t a l k i n g a b o u t w i t h i n f i n i t e i n t e l l i g e n c e
 
@DontTalk For the Intelligence section, the level of Intelligence would be backed up either by a given IQ of the character, the amount of relevant knowledge to support it or both.

  • Intelligence: Level of Intelligence (Given IQ (if available); Knowledge)
Any other form of knowledge that isn't a major factor to justify the character's intelligence should be mentioned as a type of skill that goes in the abilities section.

@Tago Some of those types of characters were probably stated to have Nigh-Omniscience & may even have infinite intelligence too but you should know, some people here don't take the time to fully elaborate on people's intelligence which makes it hard for me to give an actual list of characters rather than describe how they get this level of intelligence.

Usually people who have infinite intelligence are basically anyone who has been consistently shown to be considered as the smartest beings in their entire universe and also capable of gathering infinite knowledge.
 
Yeah, I already brought that up above. It's possible for an Animalistic character to be combat smarter than a super genius.
 
Ugarik is probably correct.
 
The reason we don't use IQ is because it isn't consistent with feats apparently, as said on the intelligence page (Lex Luthor and Batman would just be genius level), plus IQ is supposed to be based on population averages so unless the verse happens to have a lot more people nobody is getting past 200 or so on a SD15 scale (also a quick google search seemingly tells you that IQ tests aren't really an amazing measure in the first place). The thing is that having "infinite intelligence" would lend itself to nigh omniscience logically, and in the verses you mentioned references to "infinite intelligence" are the same as verses stating something is higher-D without proof of geometrical or existential superiority. Plus when it says a character could gain "an infinite amount of knowledge" that could just mean, you know, that character could invent a means to acquire infinite answers, like an machine or a McGuffin that gives them omniscience.
 
@Tago IQ can be consistent until the number reaches any finite number past 300, which would then be placed around the Enhanced Human level of Intelligence (basically the smartest being on the Earth).


This is a basic way on rating Intelligence by IQ (starting from Below Average):

  • Below Average: 70-89 IQ
  • Average: 90-109 IQ
  • Above Average: 110-129 IQ
  • Genius: 130-300 IQ
At that point, the character would have to be required to have reliable scans to back up any higher level of Intelligence beyond that, such as being a Supergenius. The requirement wouldn't matter too much for some characters if they would have a confirmed & consistent IQ of infinity, which is Infinite Intelligence by default.

They do need Infinite Intelligence to be able to store an infinite amount of knowledge at such a rate in the first place, so Infinite Intelligence always goes before Nigh-Omniscience & Omniscience regardless.
 
We really should just go by feats instead of IQ ratings because obviously different authors have different ideas of what IQ actually is. Also, higher IQ has a formula that basically just means someone is intelligent for their age. IQ = Mental Age / Physical Age * 100 is the formula. But "Mental age" is often something very debatable in the first place.
 
Magi Hussie said:
They do need Infinite Intelligence to be able to store an infinite amount of knowledge at such a rate in the first place, so Infinite Intelligence always goes before Nigh-Omniscience & Omniscience regardless.
Click to expand...
Having omniscience only requires storage capacity.
 
I agree that we cannot use IQ ratings as something meaningful, given how much the meaning differs from fiction to fiction.
 
Ugarik said:
A bigger problem that we somehow equalize fighting skills with intelligence.
Click to expand...
Not equalize, but being a skilled fighter is also a specific aspect of intelligence. Of course it must be clarified what one refers to.

Magi Hussie said:
@DontTalk For the Intelligence section, the level of Intelligence would be backed up either by a given IQ of the character
Click to expand...
IQ measure the rarity of a test result. It isn't even that great of a measure in real life.

  • Intelligence: Level of Intelligence (Given IQ (if available); Knowledge)
Counter suggestion: Level of Intelligence (explanation)

IQ is meaningless, the level can be voluntary and the explanation is all that really matters.

Any other form of knowledge that isn't a major factor to justify the character's intelligence should be mentioned as a type of skill that goes in the abilities section.

No. We definitely don't need a "baking" ability or anything in the P&A section. Our intelligence stat is (and should continue to be) for the characters mental capabilities in all forms. Whether that's intelligence in a strict sense or not is really not important. It's simply the best place to put all explanations of this type.
 
As I said, Lex only has like an IQ of 220, plus different verses have different average intelligences. It makes sense, for instance, for characters like Kryte to be implied to have an IQ below 190 because the average in his universe is simply far higher (also isn't putting genius at 130 quite a bit too lentient?)

Also I agree with DonTalkDT, even if baking ability isn't the most important thing in the world there are plenty of mental abilities that don't come under conventional intelligence or martial arts, weapon mastery and identic memory and our current layout is perfectly practical and acceptable. Getting into semantics about a fairly difficult and controversial issue seems meaningless when we just want to index combat applicable characters' abilities.
 
Genius at 130ish is the irl benchmark for it. IQ kinda falls apart when you get to the really high and low ends of things because of sample size problems, and that's without taking into account its inherent flaws in a system.
 
@The God of Procrastination You can't have that without having Infinite Intelligence. Your logic implies that you can have infinite knowledge without having the right type of mind to store said knowledge.

@Antonio That would be an Enhanced form of intelligence that surpasses a Genius-level (Peak Human) of intelligence but below Supergenius (which would also require feats to back that up), which basically makes you smarter than any human of the planet.

@Antvasima And I assume that not using given IQ (especially if they're under 300) for the Intelligence section improved lately?

From what I seen from various profiles, it really didn't and was even more inconsistent without that.

@DonTalk Any given IQ under 300 is still possible to used to qualify the character's Intelligence and the majority of the profiles didn't even use the given levels of Intelligence (ex: Average, Above Average and etc.)

Pretty sure it still can be to an extent, any finite number past 300 is still Enhanced Human until there's enough provided & sufficient feats that will make that Supergenius.

IQ always becomes necessary when its given.

So you're implying that we need the knowledge of how to literally bake in the intelligence section (which barely makes a difference in your level of intelligence) instead of the P&A section, where we usually place all of the character's list of skills at? That's sounds kind of contradictory don't you think?

Wouldn't that make the Intelligence section redundant to add any other forms of intelligence since it should focus mainly on only your IQ and relevant Knowledge to what you learn from education in school/educational-related things or fighting experience?

@Tago

Lex Luthor and Kryten would be at Genius-Level with those IQs.

The genius-level of intelligence also includes "gifted" children and the baseline of genius level is supposed to be like that anyway.

Any form of Intuition (which are treated any skills) goes in the P&A section like they always do.
 
@DonTalk Any given IQ under 300 is still possible to used to qualify the character's Intelligence

Real Life IQ stops making any sense at 195 (196 is less than 1 in all of humanity). Even before that it becomes highly questionable in RL.

and the majority of the profiles didn't even use the given levels of Intelligence (ex: Average, Above Average and etc.)

Because they don't need to. The rankings are merely suggestions, the only thing that really matters is the explanation.

IQ always becomes necessary when its given.

IQ can be used as minor evidence when it's given. Doesn't tell you an awful lot in fiction.

So you're implying that we need the knowledge of how to literally bake in the intelligence section (which barely makes a difference in your level of intelligence) instead of the P&A section, where we usually place all of the character's list of skills at? That's sounds kind of contradictory don't you think?

No, I don't think there is a contradiction. Baking was a random example, but in principle people are allowed to list any capability a character is known to have. So this could be included (not that it needs to). Detailed explanations on mental capabilities belong into the intelligence section. Intelligence stuff that goes into the P&A is actually the exception.

Wouldn't that make the Intelligence section redundant to add any other forms of intelligence since it should focus mainly on only your IQ and relevant Knowledge to what you learn from education in school/educational-related things or fighting experience?

I think many people in this thread already made clear that IQ is by no means the focus of intelligence. It's more of a minor indicator than a major part of the classification. The intelligence section focuses in general on all aspects of intelligence and knowledge. Not restricted to school subjects, fighting or anything like that.
 
Also, isn't the highest verified IQ 220 now? Something about William James Sidis' reported 254-300 scores not being verifiable came up, pretty sure.
 
There are different standard deviations, usually its a SD 15 scale (another reason why its a bad system to use). 130 is meant to to be baseline gifted apparently (its only the 97.5th percentile) , but either way IQ is decidedly not good for measuring fictional characters' intelligence, not even mentioning discrepancies between how different authors will treat IQs (saying two characters who have tier 2-1 technology are normal human level is weird, especially since both have a reason for it given that they reside in worlds with supergeniuses which would limit the percentile they could be in), IQ tests are actually completely invalid past 160 and anything above is speculation or lies spread by a non clinically proven or reviewed "super test". The only real way it could work is by using it to scale characters relative to their own verse. Lex is smarter than Batman because Batman has an IQ of 190, whereas Lex has one of 220. However even then this stuff really only works as a word of god that in extreme cases will require more evidence than just scaling (Moon Girl is supposedly more intelligent than Bruce Banner and Reed Richards despite not having an amazing amount of feats). Currently our intelligence system works fine, sure IQ is a definitve statement but it isn't comparable across fiction.
 
@DontTalk That's only applies if its past the IQ limit that normal human characters could have, which is currently at 201.

The main things people expect in the explanation is the given IQ and the relevant info. of the character's knowledge to support their IQ or combat intelligence, that's basically it.

Usually there are always explanations that goes with the character's given IQ, so if anyone is going to get a random number of their IQ being mentioned out of the blue, then expect an explanation for that.

If its a minor skill, then it goes in the P&A section. We don't want to clutter the Intelligence section with too much basic skills that aren't major factors and barely has any affect of changing your current Intelligence. If anything involves learning faster than those around you, then something like that should be mentioned and not only just because you're capable of doing it.

If it was, then I wouldn't have said "if available" alongside a given IQ and I wouldn't have mentioned "knowledge" right next to it. So no need to point that out.

Edit: I forgot to check the link you just posted, so I'm gonna fix some things in my responses real quick.
 
@Wokistan The highest verified IQ should be 201 now, according to @DontTalk's IQ Percentile link he just posted. Oh, I didn't realize that for the "250-300 IQ" thing, thanks for letting me know.

@Tago I suppose so, the IQ range for Gifted should be 130-139 iirc.

The characters under 201 IQ hasn't shown any complications on their IQ when being compared to other characters IQs so far. Scaling from other people's IQ in the same verse without having yours mentioned is a thing too you know.
 
It seems very unlikely that we will modify our intelligence ratings based on this discussion.

Also, given the ongoing forum migration, we should start to try to pause all ongoing content revision threads now, unless they are very important: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4208849
 
Personally, it might be best to close the thread given the migration.
 
But there obviously is a problem if Bruce Wayne and Kryten are both genius levels. Also have you seen bad CSI shows where some of the characters who seem to be average have IQs of 190? I feel like P and A sections are more important and cluttered in general than the intelligence ones so our current system is the best for formatting.
 
Yes, it might be best to close the thread.
 
@The God of Procrastination Weird how something like that wasn't used earlier

Alright then, let's postpone the thread for now until the migration is over.
 
Yes. Let's wait with this.
 
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