Kirby's top-tiers are actually 2-C, but they shouldn't be upgraded

[Eficiente]

This is going to be my last thread about the verse for a long time, and for good reasons, but more on that in the last paragraph. First, 4 paragraphs to explain the 2-C feat.

Another Dimension is a multiverse, first of all. This should be left rather clear in the Heroes in Another dimension storyline, where Kirby & co. travel through 5 dimensions with different names yet all considered to be the one place that is Another Dimension. It having many universes wasn't inserted out of nowhere there, this was the case from the first game in which that appeared, Return to Dreamland, as suggested here & here. And what's the point on presenting Another Dimension as a multiverse in a game where only one of its universes is explored? Well, that's the thing, many of them were actually explored by Kirby & co. all through the game.

Many times in Return to Dreamland Kirby & co. repeat this process: 1) They go inside a space-time rift that sends them to Another Dimension, which was thought to be just a universe before. 2) From there they are in a gray version of the universe in which they were before, with a wall of space consuming everything, which they need to outrun. 3) Then they fight 1 or 2 Sphere Doomers, who have 1 or 2 energy sources that come from this thing and, upon the last Sphere Doomer exploding, the visible part of that universe (the background with many stars) stops being gray, then they come back to the planet they were bofore via another rift (the planet could be in Kirby's universe or in Another Dimension as well).

By the end of the game the defeat of the final boss, Magolor Soul, shatters what we at least see are interstellar parts of Another Dimension, making the wall of space mentioned before appear. After that Kirby & co. and other characters from Another Dimension escape that into Kirby's universe and then the characters from Another Dimension just go back to it. How do they do that after the mess in their dimension that happened just moments before? Well, it is assumed that the space-time rifts Kirby & co. traveled into sent them to the future, after Magolor Soul was defeated and parts of Another Dimension were destroyed. Beating the Sphere Doomers and having the background going from gray to normal was what fixed Another Dimension. After that the characters mentioned before could come back.

And finally, each of those places Kirby & co. went into when going inside a rift is not the same universe. Every time they do that it's another different universe. Meaning that the destruction Magolor Soul's defeat generated reached other universes wihin Another Dimension, that's the feat. How are those places not the same universe, you may ask? If they were:

• When they are in Another Dimension, the places in which Kirby & co. end up should be the same as the place in which they were before going inside the rift, not just having some similarities. The portray the universes in Another Dimension had in Heroes in Another dimension shows them as alternative possibilities of stuff that happened in Kirby's universe, so things being different but having similarities makes perfect sense if it's other universe but it doesn't if it's the same.
• Kirby & co. go to this places more than 10 times across only 2 planets, yet when everything gets fixed from gray to normal across the background with dozens of stars, other parts of those 2 planets are still gray and have their own background with dozens of stars still being gray. Surprisingly, it makes more sense to say that the whole universe is being fixed and that each place is another one.
  • This feat in turn doesn't come from Kirby & co., nor the Sphere Doomers they beat to make this happen, but the energy sources the latter beings had that came from this thing, futuristic technology made by the beings who also made the power source Magolor had.

If you are wondering if this is an outlier then trust me, it's not (As of that game and some afterwards, yes, it would have been an outlier, later games indicate that to not be the case). But I'm not going over that as I do not want any profile to be updated with this. You see, the Kirby-verse has this massive problem where there is a lot of information missing coming from exclusive guides from Japan (there are also more than one from each game), I am very, very certain that the last one from Return to Dreamland ("µÿƒÒü«Òé½Òâ╝ÒâôÒéú Wii ÒüïÒéôÒü║ÒüìÒéÁÒâØÒâ╝ÒâêÒé¼ÒéñÒâë") gives many explanations about all of this in its more than 200 pages. Similar cases with lesser feats happen in other games, lore wise there may not be a lot missing but vs debates wise, they can give a lot of extremely useful context. I will later make a blog listing all of this guides in order of relevance (for our standards) and pointing out what useful context they are likely to have. If we update the profiles without the Return to Dreamland guide no one is going to have any real motivation to share it in a way that everyone on internet could see it, in turn making even more difficult for other guides to get shared as well, as this is the most important one and the one with the most information I can accurately predict it has. Also it would be ugly for many profiles to be 2-C via a feat that takes deductions in a lot of context over a whole game to understand when we could just link something saying "This collapsed Another Dimension" and something saying "Another Dimension has many universes within it", or something like that.

That's why I'm not planning in making any other Kirby thread until having the information from at least Return to Dreamland's guide, it's a way to make a statement. I know my name is more or less known among people who would be interested in knowing more vs debates-related stuff about the verse and can do research about it, they don't deserve having huge amounts of information not being available to them, and them not even knowing about it. I don't really care if everyone gets to see the guides in the near future or not, I want to inform everyone about their existence and relevance (vs debates wise, again). That is all.

 

[Kirby71]

Hmm, yes, I understand, we can't upgrade them solely on this, it's right that we need more info about the guide and the game, I'll wait for more, by the way, I should add one thing, the portal we see in Aeon Hero's fight seems to be absorbing stars, what do you think about it? Real feat?

 

[Eficiente]

I calc'd it as a black hole at Large Star level, the calc was apparently wrong but I don't think the result would be much different if correct. If it is 4-A then somebody else should point that out.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

Also, Efi. Whatever happened to that Magolor upgrade idea you had in mind a while back? Did you not continue with it and decided to abandon it?

 

[Eficiente]

I don't remember that? Unless it's this.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

The one where you proposed Magolor to return to his original tiers, which would result in a downgrade of those who originally didn't scale. I think there was another thread about this too.

Anyways, this is a very interesting observation. I'll follow and see where this goes.

 

[Eficiente]

Oooh. Yeah no that's pretty old; Initially Azzy downgraded Magolor because there was no evidence of Another Dimension being a universe, then I pointed out that it was a universe (that thread you have there) and then Azzy told me that there wasn't any evidence of all of Another Dimension being destroyed with Magolor's defeat as opposed to what we see (interstellar parts of it).

Sorry but that may be needlessly confusing for casual users, you may want to not show it.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

Acknowledged.

 

[Cumberjung]

Following to see the discussion for now.

I'll add my own comment later on.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

owo what's this?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Since Magolor just collapsed one Dimension, wouldn't this be 3-A

 

[Eficiente]

Magolor just collapsed one Dimension

Prove it.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Magolor just collapsed one Dimension

Prove it.

Uh

Because you didn't show anything of Magolor's collapse reaching into other universes? No scans or anything? You just said it did with nothing backing it up, which is a huge assumption.

 

[Eficiente]

Man if you want to claim that for something to be legit there needs to be "scans or anything" and it otherwise it's an assumption then this wiki is not for you. What even is "anything"? I used logic based on the facts we know, and that does nothing for you and is automatically wrong because reasons.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Man if you want to claim that for something to be legit there needs to be "scans or anything" and it otherwise it's an assumption then this wiki is not for you. What even is "anything"? I used logic based on the facts we know, and that does nothing for you and is automatically wrong because reasons.

Dude, you don't need to be so hostile. I know how the wiki works and I want Kirby to be 2-C just as much as you do. But I literally don't see from your post that implies 2-C rather than 3-A/Low 2-C.

 

[Eficiente]

I don't think any of that is hostile, but let me analyze your comments for a second.

• You ask what's the thread. I have no idea what type of response you were aiming for there but there was nothing bad so far.
• You affirm a wrong notion that doesn't come from any part in the thread and ask if said notion means something it of course would if it were true. I asked you to prove that because I have no idea where does it came from, which puts me in a hard position to disagree with it, also constructing the logic behind that would have helped you notice the mistake that is to say something that comes out of nowhere and expect others to be ok with it.
• You didn't answer that, instead you instantly dismissed the main thing of the thread without saying why it's wrong yet saying that it needs to have evidence to be correct.

You can obviously disagree with anything, you can even not give your reasons for it, but you can't disregard the work of someone by claiming that it needs something so fundamental as evidence without criticizing the evidence it already has. It comes of as disrespectful when you don't even show to be aware of what are even the points made first, proven by stuff like you saying that Magolor collapsed a dimension and saying that as a fact. When someone says something on the lines of "then this wiki is not for you" it's not about being hostile or even about the main topic of the thread in which that's done, never once I have seen that being the case, it's about pointing out something everyone should not imitate that we as a wiki strictly don't do (or really shouldn't).

Image someone making a comment in a Death Battle never criticizing the research done there but saying that it needs to have more research and that everything there is a huge assumption, there would be literally no way of deconstructing that comment without sounding like some type of ridiculisation of it.

 

[Kirby71]

Wait, how do you know the space-time rifts sent Kirby and Co to the future? Does anything support that?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I"m not trying to be condescending or whatever. I just literally do not see what makes Magolor's feat anything beyond universal. I don't at all doubt that it's accurate and I generally do trust you on Kirby stuff, but I can't figure out what in the OP indicates the feat being 2-C.

 

[Eficiente]

That's good, if you indicate what parts of it you disagree with, we can discuss that.

@Kirby Nothing directly states that, nor anything talks about the process being done in those areas. That said, the time travel stuff was assumed since a while, Magolor's feat doesn't need to be 2-C or at any level for it to be true. It just makes no sense for Kirby & co. to be in Halcandra/Another Dimension and then being transported to the same place but it's also now gray and it needs to be reversed back to normal, with losing sending them to the place they were before that.

This also comes from pieces of the Lor Starcutter, which can time travel, and it's all on Another Dimension, which "transcends space-time", which can mean anything in fiction (and was used as a "who knows where this takes place in the timeline?").

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Oh nice!

 

[Eficiente]

Btw, as a favor, is anyone able to upload this on youtube? It helps a lot to point out context for most users.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Man if you want to claim that for something to be legit there needs to be "scans or anything" and it otherwise it's an assumption then this wiki is not for you. What even is "anything"? I used logic based on the facts we know, and that does nothing for you and is automatically wrong because reasons.

Dude, you don't need to be so hostile. I know how the wiki works and I want Kirby to be 2-C just as much as you do. But I literally don't see from your post that implies 2-C rather than 3-A/Low 2-C.

ZephyrosOmega, our neighbor Eficiente is right about claims not being wrong just because there's no evidence in favor. However, there is evidence against Magolor's defeat causing a universe's collapse:

1) "Stars and nebulae are in the backgrounds, so they're part of the realm and it's at least multi-solar system-sized."

- Mountains and even clouds are in the background, so they're part of the ranch and it's asteroid-sized ?

2) The supposed galaxies reflected in the floor during the final battle don't even look like ones.

3) In fact, the shattering crystal-like walls in the ending are clearly boundaries of what collapses, and universes don't have boundaries.

The only possibility is that what collapses is actually the place with enemies and obstacles Magolor created with his magic to stop the heroes from following him.