Kirby 'Verse Upgrades

[Angry_Dummy]

I'm not interested in using pictures right now, but I will find them and post them if it proves necessary. I've provided many video links.

So, after recently beating Robobot (also, spoilers for that game), I've found some hints that make it seem like the writers at HAL Laboratories have seen sites like this and want to hype up their mascot. Firstly, I'll begin with the new character Star Dream. Star Dream is a super computer which, as of the climax, became intelligent after eating President Haltmann's soul and decided to fulfill the stated goal of intergalactic peace by eradicating all of the squishy meat-puppets.

Kirby battled him shortly afterwards (using a Robobot version of the Halberd), and Star Dream attacked primarily using holes in space-time (video: for reference). He also opened massive portals which rained smoking meteors on the player, each about the size of a moon. His second phase had him join with the planet-sized Access Ark for some extra firepower (also seen in the same video at 23:13), at which point he does more of the same ("Teleport spam. Teleport spam everywhere").

Combine his motivation with his shown powers, and the plausibility of him destroying all organic life in every dimension he can reach is quite high.

But that's less important than phase 3 (25:58 and this video), where the Access Ark is revealed to have been constructed out of a Galactic NOVA (Kirby), just like the one seen in Kirby Super Star. With this NOVA as the power source for all of the odd shenanigans we've seen before now, as well as the dimension-changing powers he then whips out, we get a much better idea as to what NOVA is capable of, and that's a solid deal more than Star Dream alone.

His altering of the dimensions and frequent abuse of the space-time continuum is highly reminiscent of the Boss Who Must Not Be Brought Up In Kirby-Scaling, Magolor. When Magolor bent time and space to perform attacks, it placed him at multi-galaxy level. Here, we have a little more of the same. Star Dream is constantly opening holes in reality to chuck lasers, and NOVA is doing something weird with reality. If I knew more about the exact specifics, I would list them.

I would push, then, for a 3-B Star Dream and 3-B NOVA, listed as being noticeably higher than Star Dream on account of his... dimension... changing... whatever that is. I'd also list NOVA as possibly 3-A for reasons I'll mention later.

Then we have Galacta Knight, whose immediate reaction to being summoned by Star Dream ("Sure, he might destroy a planet or two in the battle, but such is life," the machine said) is to calmly turn around and hack him in two with his lance!

With one blow, Star Dream is sent reeling, spending the remainder of the final confrontation heavily damaged and activating its most powerful form... after it finishes scraping it's teeth off the curb GK stomped them into. Galacta Knight's new feat can't be an outlier either, seeing as he then tears a hole in space to fire a massive laser out of it later in the fight (Was beaten too fast in previous video: here it is in actio), very similarly to Star Dream.

Galacta scales to Star Dream, then, and is aso 3-B.

Then we have the boss fight between Galacta Knight and Meta Knight, where he is much like his usual self. However, instead of scaling from Kirby and Meta Knight, Kirby and Meta Knight now scale from him as they are able to fight him without much issue (outside of the obvious fact that he's a serious pain in the booty to fight because he's SO GOSH DANG HARD).

Kirby and Meta Knight are now 3-B. They can now officially claim to beat Mario in Super Mario Galaxy. I always knew they had it in them!

In addition, King Dedede is described in the bio for his clone to be "One of the most powerful lifeforms on Popstar." Seeing as he's been considered a serious challenge for Kirby and friends to fight as an enemy and a powerful ally when helping out consistently each game, he should be within the same realm of power and scale accordingly. 3-B Dedede.

But wait, there's more!

Before you fight Galacta Knight, you fight clones of Dark Matter and Queen Sectonia. I'd like to focus first on Dark Matter. (Here he is in action.)

It is mentioned in his bio that, try as it might, Star Dream was struggling hard to clone this thing. Cloning was already hard enough as it is (the second DDD clone bio mentioned the absolute failures the first several attempts were to clone even Dedede), but Dark Matter was so alien that it could only capture the essence of its weakest form: swordsman, though some elements of its true form bled over. This is like if you tried to clone Goku, but could only get base form with the option of Kaioken.

However, even this weakened Dark Matter clone is still able to put up a fight against Meta Knight and Kirby right before they fought Galacta Knight. Therefore, this clone scales to 3-B for being able to legitimately threaten the two. The implication remains that the original was this strong in its weakest form and stronger in its true form. How is this a big deal?

Because its first appearance was in Kirby's Dreamland 2, the game's third installment after Kirby's Adventure.

Therefore, Kirby's Dreamland 2 Kirby scales to 3-B, and, thus, everything that Kirby fought during and after that time does as well!

SO, with that said, basically everyone in the franchise save for possibly Nightmare (I'm pretty sure his remake doesn't count in the chronological order of events) is now multi-galaxy level.

Finally, twice in the game there is a rather outlandish mention of Kirby's power. Namely, it mentions that Kirby possesses (nearly) infinite power twice.

The first time it does so, it's on the pause screen when Kirby lacks an ability. It reads, "Kirby is the round, pink life-form from Planet Popstar who possesses infinite power and can inhale enemies to copy their abilities."

The second time, it's Star Dream during the last phase of the story mode final boss fight, where he says the following on the pause screen: "Its energy signature far exceeds that of the Invader Armor, our combat mech. The nearly infinite power within this life-form is astounding. Calculating probability of survival... it doesn't look good."

Thus, it seems that Kirby is in a Hulk or Superma situation where the amount of power he can potentially whip out is mentioned to be limitless, but we have yet to see much of it. It is a plausible, if outlandish explanation that, during the final moments of the battles with NOVA (whether drilling into Star Dream in the Robobot Armor or battling the heart of the machine on foot) that Kirby's power was on-par with Magolor Soul and we're looking at possibly 3-A combatants, or perhaps this is nothing but foreshadowing for even greater threats.

I won't push for anything higher than 3-B for anyone, as of Today, but that's what I have.

Thoughts?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Can't see the links on my end but I'm assuming that there's actual evidence of the dimension being the size of multiple galaxies?

Infinite power is similar to the term omnipotence. Most of the individuals described as such have no such feats to support it.

Scaling everyone to Multi-Galaxy level seems very, forgive me, outlandish. Should be discarded as an outlier as it wreaks havoc on the ratings and is very inconsistent with the franchise's usual feats of power.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

And yet...

1. This already happened once before with Magolor, who we discarded because he was a "One of a kind" deal and nothing else supported this. It was not a matter of arguing about the size of the dimension, as that was already dealt with, last I checked, but rather a matter of him being bigger than everything else.

Here is another instance of 3-B power happening in the series. This time, we have the new characters scaling to old favorites whose true might was ill defined (NOVA, Galacta Knight, and Dark Matter were all decided by scaling to the heroes, which isn't the greatest way of powerscaling, really), and then scaled to the heroes, so it's more connected and harder to dissociate than Magolor was.

To summarize, once is a mistake. Twice is deliberate, and Kirby seems to be getting puched up by those at HAL Laboratories.

2. The statements are for Kirby only (and only vaguely reflect back on NOVA and Star Dream) and are more statements of potential, rather than stating that Kirby is omnipotent or some other higher-dimensional creature. Kirby's power is an adaptive ability that has given him the power to combat reality warpers, demigods, planet-devouring demons, and cosmic, wish-granting entities multiple times before. Kirby is likely not high 3-A today, but I wouldn't put it past HAL Laboratories to try and push him higher and higher, like a Dragon Ball character, especially considering this is the second time they've directly advertised Kirby's powers as utterly massive after Hypernova was described as "Literally a black hole" and had him eat light.

3. A mysterious character who is known as the strongest warrior in the galaxy and has dueled the protagonists three times before is finally given a reveal as a massive powerhouse bad guy who blew up planets for kicks.

What's a better assessment of the situation: "Wow! I had no idea he was that strong! I guess that explains his title." or, "He can't be this strong! He's supposed to have no other detail than some vague statement that he's the best warrior in the galaxy even though he's done nothing but lose! This makes no sense!"


The Kirby franchise is bipolar when it comes to feats. Either the characters are planet smashing like it's no biggie and an apple or large bug can harm or even kill them (Complete with a sudden shock before going limp, as seen in Super Star Ultra), or you get NOTHING and LIKE IT.

If we can say that Kirby defeating Claycia and Dark Nebula is good enough for 4-A, despite nothing else being even remotely close, then why not Star Dream, NOVA, and Magolor for 3-B?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Btw an outlier can happen twice.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

Btw an outlier can happen twice.

Yes, but I feel like this feat is getting a lot more in-universe and out-of-universe support than the random spike with Magolor that came right the heck outta nowhere and affected precisely four characters.

This one ties it all together and is practically advertising Kirby as an unstoppable killing machine from four different angles.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

I'm liking it so far. I don't know if you can scale backwards in time like that since it could be argued that the msyterious guy kirby fought before only recently got that strong, but I'm liking it for the current best showing of power kirby has had.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

...It could be argued that the msyterious guy kirby fought before only recently got that strong, but I'm liking it for the current best showing of power kirby has had.

Thank you for your appreciation.

I'd like to mention that between every fight with the main cast, Galacta Knight spends his time frozen in a massive gemstone, waiting to be let out and go on a planet-smashing joyride. He has absolutely zero time to spend training or preparing.

The other characters are a little better, but when you've reached back as far as the third installment after a fifteen year anniversary, that's a pretty large jump.

In addition, I've seen stranger things happen on this site when it comes to scaling.

With this article in particular, I remembered Beerus mentioning Cell's proposed "I'll blow up the entire solar system!" hyperbole as fact (Which, as I will simplify it, was defining the ill-defined), and the subsequent upgrades given to Cell and everyone who interacted with him at that time.

I will cite that as my greenlight to go through with this article and propose that this power runs deep in Kirby's lineage, if just because we had nothing to go on back then.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If and only if this goes through, it should apply only to Star Dream, the main three (probably not Bandana Waddle Dee), NOVA, Marx Soul (since he absorbed NOVA), and Galacta Knight. I like the upgrade (not sure if I agree on it yet. It's well written though), but the backwards scaling shouldn't apply. Wayy too many inconsistencies for all to be that level.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

...The backwards scaling shouldn't apply. Wayy too many inconsistencies for all to be that level.

Please explain these inconsistencies in a way that doesn't boil down to "Exactly what the franchise does every single game without fail."

Kirby had his brain eaten by a worm in the blooper reel in Super Star Ultra, and falling apples are considered a life-threatening foe in nearly every installment. This franchise is terribly inconsistent at best and is an exercise in masochism to try and piece together to the point where its usable in a proper VS debate.

As much as I hate strictly arguing from the perspective of tiers and speeds, ala Dragon Ball, Kirby's most straight-forward feat, cracking his own planet in half, suffers from a nasty case of Writers Cannot Do Math, (201 megatons < 50 quadrillion megatons) which has done nothing but give everyone involved a headache.


...Sorry for the rant. I love Kirby, and I love VS debates, but I think like a writer, and I'm surrounded by physicists.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I feel you. Fully understand your point

 

[Angry_Dummy]

Awesome, this all appears to be going great!

I'd love it if Fastsword88 saw this. He might soil his trousers.

 

[Antvasima]

None of what was mentioned in the first post is anywhere near concrete enough to upgrade the Kirby characters to Multi-Galaxy level. Opening up portals is unquantifiable, and "infinite power" is most likely matter-of-speech hyperbole.

It is common within fiction to use such terms, but if it strongly contradicts what has been shown, we cannot blindly accept it.

All of this comes across as more than a bit silly.

 

[Ryukama]

Agreed with Ant. Once again these statements of "infinite power" do not matter at all if they are not substantiated and heavily contradicted. Kirby has struggled with 3 Multi Solar System beings and if you want to claim those other characters are MG to Universe (despite these feats not being quantifiable really) then Kirby still struggled with finite beings.

Saitama has been called limitless twice as well (by Boros and Asura Rhino) We are not going to upgrade him just upon these statements. Nor will we for Kirby. Especially when Kirby has shown clearly definable limits in every single appearance he has ever had, including the ones where those statements were made.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. I will close this thread. I would appreciate if the OP does not bring up this topic again.