Kingdom Hearts General Discussion Thread

[Bobsican]

Okay, the new forum is here, in the meantime we can discuss of what we think on the planned CRT and maybe add/fix stuff, oh, and anyone is free to talk about anything they think could be revised on pages and other miscelaneus thoughts on the series.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Bobsican/Sandbox

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That's a nice picture.

 

[Bobsican]

Thanks.

So this isn't a one-liner and we get an actual discussion going... it has been brought up the following in our Discord chat:

- Inorganic Physiology for Space Paranoids/The Grid for Sora, Donald, Goofy and Riku (This should be fine, they are simply data there, and that has been given to Digimon for similar reasons, so it should be fine on paper)

- Clean-up on Riku's Resistances between Pre-Keyblade and KHI (Apparently they intersect, and so they could be cleaned up to avoid redundancy)

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I would do the clean-up myself if I could actually edit the page.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, they may be unlocked in the following weeks.

For now...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

What is your dream cross over for kingdome hearts?

 

[Bobsican]

Club Penguin and Cory in the House

For real, I would like to see Deep Jungle (Aka, Tarzan) once more, even if quite unlikely.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Club Penguin and Cory in the House

First arrival, sora, Donald, and Goofy arrive in a freezing wasteland, shivering and cold, but are rescued from the cold by a fine polar bear, that enthuses with there dispize of the cold, he asks there if there from a warmer place, if there was more to the world then coldness, sora is about to say of course, but Hubert interrupts him, declaring that he went from one end of the world to the other, and all he got for his travels was frozener wasteland. Donald stairs at sora and goofy says 'nope the worlds just cold and there anit other worlds' (he then ducks behind sora and gives a thumbs up to Donald) and Hebert responds "I see.. then i must go through with my plan to warm the world and melt the ice islands and all the Penguins that live there!!"
(Q superpize face on part)

 

[Mantidil]

What is your dream cross over for kingdome hearts?

Most of my dream Disney crossovers have been covered as of KH3. I want to see more weird ones like Bug's Life or something.

I do wonder what are the chances of seeing Oswald the Lucky Rabbit in Kingdom Hearts 4.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Most of my dream Disney crossovers have been covered as of KH3. I want to see more weird ones like Bug's Life or something.

I do wonder what are the chances of seeing Oswald the Lucky Rabbit in Kingdom Hearts 4.

Welp there are more then a few videos covering what he could be on YouTube that I've seen a long time ago

 

[Bobsican]

Oh yeah, there's also Marvel, Star Wars and The Simpsons as legitimate options now.

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

Imagine Homer Simpson as the secret final boss and he's harder than Lingering Will.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Oh yeah, there's also Marvel, Star Wars and The Simpsons as legitimate options now.

Ya.. you know big hero 6 was technically a marvel representative

Imagine Homer Simpson as the secret final boss and he's harder than Lingering Will.

He'd never know the fight was taking places, at the end of the fight he'd ask sora if he got the number of the punk kids in there simi truck that kept running him over, he'd spend the whole fight with a blindfold on or with some more cartoony reason for him not to notice

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Oh yeah, there's also Marvel, Star Wars and The Simpsons as legitimate options now.

Star wars... darn what's there to say about it? The emperor would have power over the heartless, and probably try to learn how to explite them to become immortal. Vader... Vader, luke's quest to save him would be recontextualized in a kingdom hearts lore manner, to prevent him from falling into darkness?.. maybe not? Maybe the empire would discover what xeanort did about becoming a heartless and bid Vader to dive into darkness to become a heartless with him, because Vader's will and rage is too powerful to actually be overwhelmed by the heartless, in kingdom hearts terms his heart would be too strong for him to be under threat of being taken by heartless against his will.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Given the nature of lucas arts there would be some sort of explanation for why the sith weren't all heartless bait, likely the 'strong hearts' notion and use of the dark side to control them would be what they come to

 

[Bobsican]

Well, regardless of the heart, going too much into the darkness alone turns you into Heartless bait, and Heartless sweeping a verse without Sora has happened before... remember San Fransokyo?
I wouldn't be surprised if the remains of Vader after his death just become a Heartless, as this is quite a trend, plus Disney no longer likes it when Sora forces the original setting to derail, so I wouldn't be too surprised either if Sora just gets walled by some Master of Masters guy to prevent it happening while keeping it a "mystery", like how Arendelle went, although I hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well that is true they were present before sora arrived, the heartless attacks hadn't been applied to be a bother longer then Big hero 6 existed, they seemed to be there because the real 13 had taken interest in the world, well Meanwhile a sith lord's 'darkness'ness is supposed to be legendary and would likely by it's own nature have attracted heartless like a superfood

 

[Bobsican]

Well, someone into the darkness generally becomes someone to lead Heartless, however, as Maleficent pointed out, doing so too much will lead into it backfiring and becoming Heartless bait.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

As well both diz and aqua spent ample time in the realm of darkness, with aqua only turning because of xeanort, and I'd wager you don't go further into darkness then that.

For Maleficent's own statement, it only happened to her because of xeanort, (again) for a sith lord it's a bit hard to explain them existing as a concept without being eaten by a heartless by the halfway point if not for the will power realted to being force sensitive

 

[Darkmon_cns]

There's also the whole thing were ven was alive during the events of union cross/key what ever you want to call it.. which is really weird and implys like, the whole darkness light war thing happened 2 decades ago or that there's a older war before that one.. or ven's the oldest living character for no explained reason

 

[Bobsican]

Nah, it didn't happen to her, it happened to others such as Riku, and Xehanort wasn't the actual cause, Aqua falling into the water of darkness corrupted her into that.
A sith lord would have to play across a ton of potential semantics in that case.
As for Ventus, well, we really don't know how, what we do know is that in BbS he's just 16 years old physically, so chances are something happened to him in between.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Nah, it didn't happen to her, it happened to others such as Riku, and Xehanort wasn't the actual cause, Aqua falling into the water of darkness corrupted her into that.
A sith lord would have to play across a ton of potential semantics in that case.
As for Ventus, well, we really don't know how, what we do know is that in BbS he's just 16 years old physically, so chances are something happened to him in between.

Here's what I think.
1 metaphor pool man, it's not even subtle 'diving into darkness'
2 ea I'm sure they could figure it out. Or just jump a shark and say a entire branch of antagonists are humiode heartless, that would be *Fun* For lore
3 ea I feel like the implication was supposed to be these events weren't actually all that long ago, xeanort and his not Square counter part talked about it in there child hood chess game, so, we know there's been more then 1 war between light and darkness already, I at least think Xeanort says that in Birth by sleep in the graveyard, haven't played it sense my PS3 crapped out so not certain.

4 ven I think ven has aged naturely except for when he lost his heart

 

[Bobsican]

1 Actually, that's exactly what happens, although you could argue that Xehanort made the process even faster than normal
2 Interesting
3 Well, the age of fairy tales was so long ago it was a time when Yen Sid was a Keyblade Wielder, so maybe some decades at least
I don't think Ventus aged entirely naturally between Union X to BbS, he would be quite older than Terra, for example.
And Union X does confirm that there were two Keyblade Wars, Union X is just a sort of soft-reboot on that, as KHx ended with that begn reset or so, but in the end reaching similar results, although it hasn't ended yet, so there's still some plot things roaming around.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

1 well yes we see her fall into the dark pool thing, sora fights the evil reflection over the dark pool, and at the end of the fight, um if I remember this right I think the evil aqua falls apart, after he pulls her out? Or right before? I don't completely recall, I was just saying that whole fight is a metaphor the series has used for ages taken literally

3 do we have a timeframe on when he was a keyblade welder? It makes sense for it to be that long ago, but honestly I think the series has been on course correction sense Union cross, so any explanation is up in the air

I think the whole age of fairytales thing is going to face some retcons, or at least we'll get some statments cross was at the 'very end' considering I sincerely doubt zigbry was planned to be realted to the master of master in anyway in the making of Birth by sleep.

 

[Bobsican]

1 Sora purified her by... beating her up
3 Not really, all we know is that he only was one long ago, and it was before Mickey could even use a Keyblade as we can see in Symphony of Sorcery in KH3D
Xigbar? Nah, that happened right in that era, as we can see in Back Cover.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

1 Sora purified her by... beating her up
3 Not really, all we know is that he only was one long ago, and it was before Mickey could even use a Keyblade as we can see in Symphony of Sorcery in KH3D
Xigbar? Nah, that happened right in that era, as we can see in Back Cover.

1 I got the implication what sora was fighting was the equivalent of the aqua phantom from fragmented passage, and the real aqua was under the water during the entire fight

 

[Bobsican]

Uh, not really, it seems she got out of the water.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ha maybe I don't remember that fight as well as I think

Was there ever an explanation for all the Disney characters and that time Donald and goofy fell out of the sky over the player's head? I recall a statment ven was the only person that was 'really' there, was there an answer to that?

 

[Bobsican]

Simple, only Sora went to the RoD, Donald and Goofy just waited above in Destiny Islands.
Ventus just came from Aqua being confused as she woke up, confusing Ventus with Sora, and Terra with Riku.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

No no not in the aqua fight, in cross, unchained key, all that stuff

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, you mean the KHx Protag.

In that case, well, currently there's no details so far, and it doesn't help that we don't actually know the age of Mickey, Donald or Goofy.
It seems there was no time travel involved on their part, so perhaps they are just that old or something.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well considering I recall aldden was in the game, and he didn't know what a heartless was in KH1, and he shouldn't be over 20? By too much? And alice form Alice in wonderland was.. and she's a child.. them being non human adults makes them the least finicky things about it

 

[Bobsican]

Oh no, the Book of Prophecies makes up realities that basically emulate time travel, and then there's how worlds are confirmed to have different time speeds (Say, a day in one world is a month in another), so probably not.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Where does 'timespeeds' come from? In any case, Aladdin fighting heartless here but not knowing what one is later and likewise for other characters is a problem.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, KH3D and Union X confirm it, for example, Joshua clarifies to Sora and Riku that the time speed between the two Traverse Towns was different out of how the timer changed as soon Beat switched between world.
In other words, each "world" holds its own time axis, hence why the variability is a thing.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well, KH3D and Union X confirm it, for example, Joshua clarifies to Sora and Riku that the time speed between the two Traverse Towns was different out of how the timer changed as soon Beat switched between world.

That was because they were in the sleeping worlds, there worlds that should be stagnate by nature (as yensid said they haven't 'woken up' yet after being freed from darkness) and also also, it was confirmed that was sora's dream, that the whole game was sora's dream! And riku was in sora's dream, and that he went 'back' into sora's *dream* at the end of the game for the questionair that's normally at the start of these games.

Anyway, the implication is the only way to enter the sleeping worlds is by dreaming yourself, the fact this is all explicitly a dream, and explicitly sora's dream at that makes the 'timespeed' applieing to other worlds rather inappropriate. As time is oftenly finicky in dreams, I bet it's a reference to that. Dosen't the character with strange angle wings that appear when you leave the world the first time basically say it's because the world's a dream that that happened?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, Riku explicitly states that this is no different from regular worlds, and no, it wasn't "actually" a dream, they just went into the past, and the reason you see Sora sleeping is because he collapsed out of his fight with Xemnas into darkness and so on.
You can even see Dream Eaters being able to exist outside Dream Worlds in Union X and KHIII.

 

[Stupits]

That was a long read. But basically profiles are still locked correct me if im wrong. I just woke up lmfao

 

[Darkmon_cns]

No yensid makes it very very clear that it was indeed a dream at the end of the game, I honestly believe they never went back in time, because of that Spontaneous Ursula from the start of the game. I wasn't ever referring to the portion of the game with Xemnas, but later after the final boss when riku dives back into sora to wake him up after the Norts attempt to hijack his body.

 

[Bobsican]

Yep.
I even lost my editing rights recently, so I had to ask on the new all purpose requests thread for the thing we talked about.