Kingdom Hearts Discussion Thread

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

"May your Heart Be Your Guiding Key"

So... It's about time. It's been a while since we've had a Discussion Thread for Kingdom Hearts.

Because of the recent Kingdom Hearts 4 Announcement at the Nintendo Direct, I figured it is about time to have a fully updated Kingdom Hearts 4 Discussion Trailer. Any spoilers are allowed, but use appropriate spoiler tags when warranted. This is also to engage with fans, talk about the series, have fun, learn about upcoming revisions/projects on the site, and just make sure all of the fans planning revisions and such are all on one accord so if we make revisions to Kingdom Hearts, no one is blindsided with sudden revision.

So. Let us connect our hearts and talk about this beloved franchise.

 

[Bobsican]

I may as well note some stuff that's already considered just from the trailers and other stuff (as food for thought as this can be used for little until KHIV actually releases):

https://www.khinsider.com/news/Famitsu-interviews-Nomura-on-Kingdom-Hearts-4-and-Missing-Link-19005

-- In the trailer's narration, Quadratum was described as "a world full of life- but for you and I, it's similar to an "afterworld," I suppose." What does this mean?

Nomura: It means that perception changes depending on your viewpoint. The Master of Masters says something along those lines in UX.From Sora's point of view, Quadratum is a world on the other side of his own world and reality: a fictional world. However, from the point of view of the inhabitants of Quadratum, their world is the real one, and the place Sora and his friends hail from is the other side, the fictional world.This time, I think the theme will be something akin to the "contrast between people from different positions."

Could be potentially used to argue 1-A and/or Nonduality for true KH depending on how the series expands on this



Quoting the narration (thus skipping everything else):

If this isn't the ending you desired-
if it brings you despair-
then leave this world for another.
Your options are endless.

(then near the end of the KHIV trailer)

However-
if you do leave this world behind,
don't expect to return to the one from which you came-

This has multiple implications, for starters, it seems the narration wasn't finished as it was cut off given the "-" at the last word, chances are this is content that'd directly appear in KHIV.

More importantly, this confirms at worst that there's infinite "worlds" (2-A), or otherwise that there's infinite Ocean Betweens or similar equivalents, it's also possible that this confirms an infinite R>F hierarchy between Quadratum and The Final World (at least 1-A) in contrast of the gap between the baseline reality and The Final World, with more details in the future, of course.



This fan-translation from the JP version of the first trailer also confirms that Quadratum is indeed the afterlife.

JP 生者の世界ではあるけれどー

EN It’s a world full of life—

TR (It’s) a world of living people/the living but—

Notes: Seija is translated as “full of life” in the official English version, but it more literally means “living people” or “the living.” So Strelitzia is pointing out that all around them are living people and yet, for her and Sora, it’s still a world of death because she and Sora should be dead.

JP 私たちにとっては“死の世界”ってことになるみたい

EN but for you and I, it’s similar to an “afterworld,” I suppose.

TR —for us, (it) seems like it’s “a world of death.”

Notes: This is where I wish the English version was closer to the Japanese version. “World of death” or “world of the dead” would’ve been a closer translation, and I’m not sure why it wasn’t used (perhaps to avoid mentioning the dreaded “d” word). I do like the pun-like quality of “afterworld,” combining “afterlife” and the oft-used-in-the-KH-universe “world,” and since the translators have access to information I don’t about the game’s lore, I can’t say whether crucial lore has been lost in translation, but I wanted to point out the difference here.

Also, the grammar pattern Strelitzia uses here, koto ni naru, indicates something that’s outside of her and Sora’s control. This being an afterlife of sorts for the two of them was decided by factors beyond their control, in other words. She also uses mitai to indicate her speculation/observation.

The bit about the soul also seems interesting:

JP 心は魂に宿り　魂は運命によって在るべき場所へ導かれる

EN The heart resides within the soul which in turn is guided by fate to its rightful place

TR (The) heart dwells in (the) soul, (and the) soul is guided by fate to its rightful place (lit. the place it should be).

Notes: There’s not really any difference between the official English version and my translation. It’s just interesting to break it down. For whatever reason the “rightful place” of the soul has the verb of existence for inanimate objects (aru) instead of the one for animate objects (iru). Not sure if that’s a set phrase or if the soul in this context would be considered an inanimate object (time to go down a rabbithole about animacy in Japanese).

This bit also kinda reminded me of how Xehanort talked in KH3 when he was recounting the cycle of light and darkness. The language has a very “mythological”/storytelling feel to me, which makes sense given whoever is saying these lines is talking about fate, destiny, the nature of the universe, etc. And then the floating text in the darkness also reminds me of the Dive into the Heart sequences with the disembodied voice as well, so it could also be a reference to that.

One could argue that this'd mean that there's more of a relation between the soul and heart than previously thought.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

So.

How about that leak for Missing Link?

 

[Bobsican]

Seems like this is legit as Square Enix bothered to explicitly reach out the r/KingdomHearts staff to tell them to shut down Missing Link leaks after this got uploaded in 4Chan then got spread across the internet.

That said, the series sure seems to be doing the opposite of power creep as newer characters are struggling with stuff that was early-game junk stuff, like Maleficent bodying the Dark Road cast and Lauriam (and then barely doing much in other entries in the series), and now a regular Darkside erasing in one hit adult Keyblade wielders, but then again Ephemer and Sora are regarded as special in legends in-verse and all, this sure contrasts in a wacky way with the series still managing to raise the stakes, as much some may recall the metafictional plot in the last games building up to stuff that could be as high as High 1-A with the right context.

Edit: Apparently this is a new subspecies of Darkside, aka, Giga Darkside. TBH it sure is a funny middle-ground between a regular Darkside and a Neo Darkside (the one in Coded).

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Darksides vary a lot though, so I don't think a single trailer of a game that we don't have any context of because of the game being canceled should implicate where the Keyblade wielder of that Era scale to or not.

 

[Bobsican]

It seems rather implicit to be meant to be an introduction, so this'd have to fall as a low-end.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Honestly, Darksides don't actually seem to have THAT much variety. Some may be a bit stronger than others, sure, but KH1 Sora is able to decimate a Darkside during the endgame, as opposed to the one he struggled with Early Game, and it takes several of them to pose a legitimate threat to Aqua iirc. One also lost to Roxas and Xion in early days- I think Darksides are consistently portrayed as small threats even by KH1's endgame

 

[Bobsican]

Sora also fights a Darkside at the start of KH3, then once again nearly the end of Re Mind, which is an interesting contrast to have as in Re Mind... it didn't gain any new moves or anything, so it gives a rather direct picture of character growth.