King Sombra saves Equestria (part 1)

[MrKerf]

King Sombra awakens once more and sees that his potential kingdom is at risk of destruction.

He is not pleased...

All have their respective prior knowledge.

Post-Bewitching Bell Cozy Glow and Chrysalis. No Tirek for this battle.

King Sombra is bloodlusted.

Battle takes place in the open field of "The Ending of the End".

King Sombra: 3 (Iisdude1, Phoenks, Lord JJJ)

Team Grogar: 1 (Lollipop The King)

Inconclusive:


Greetings, friends. Can Sombra play too?


And now for your complete destruction! Won't that be fun?

 

[Iisdude1]

Do they have the bell, if so they might just absorb him from the start. Sombra will have to stay back and play it safe, since each of them is al least at even level with him. Cozy is not very experienced in a fight, chrysalis is a moderately good fighter who could keep starlight on her hooves. King Sombra likely has more experience and he arguably did a better job of taking over Equestria than the three did, so defiantly skill and mabye experience for Sombra.

All in all I see Sombra taking the victory and putting them in a perpetual state of fear after distracting them with illusions.

 

[MrKerf]

Vote counted.

Btw, no, the Bell is an optional equipment. They doesn't have it, unless stated otherwise.

And about even level. Well... It took both Celestia and Luna to defeat Sombra. Meanwhile, both Cozy and Chrysi are somewhat comparable to Twilight, who is equal to Celestia. So, technically it's not each of them are at even level with him, but only both of them combined. Although, combined, they should be more or less stronger, but we don't know how much.

 

[Iisdude1]

cozy glow concerned luna and Celestia to the point to where they considered fighting her at the same time. King Sombra was also defeated fairly easily iirc.

 

[MrKerf]

I mean... Yes, but actually... Well, it is somewhat correct, but judjing by the scene as a whole, I think they were just trying to get rid of her faster, that's all.

If you mean by alicorn sisters then, as I recall, it was offscreen.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump. Also, Sombra got some new abilities.

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Sombra via more experience. I guess.

 

[MrKerf]

Vote added.

 

[MrKerf]

Bump.

 

[Phoenks]

What's stopping Sombra from just trapping them, blasting them individually, and being done with it?

He is also able to evade Cozy Glow's energy blast by turning into his smoke form.

 

[MrKerf]

Nothing.

Although their ap is much higher and together they can basicly one-shot him. If they will be able to land a combined hit.

 

[Phoenks]

The walls created by Sombra were able to completely nullify Twlight's energy blast.

If he is bloodlusted he could just seperate them with those spike walls and fight them each 1v1 which im sure is an easy match for him.

And like I said he can just evade energy blast via turning into smoke.

Voting for Sombra

 

[MrKerf]

Vote counted.

Also, I want to be 100% clear, originally I wanted a 3v1 battle between post Bell Legion of Doom and Sombra. But our vs battle rules says that only 2 characters per side max, so 2 parts it is.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Sombra FRA

 

[MrKerf]

Vote counted.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Yeah, there's a lot I disagree with on Sombra's fras, let alone him winning. I'll only say this much since I'm on a mobile atm, but him distracting them with illusions? Yeah, his illusions are fear based, ergo they are the exact same power. Sombra can't distract them with illusions to hit them with a fear spell as that requires hitting them with a fear spell in the first place. And his only options for that are helmets and slow moving, highly dodgeable energy eyes.

Oh, and trapping them in crystals? Yeah, Celestia tier opponents can blast them so hard they get pulverized with no rubble. And Tirek shattered a crystal that could steal magic with a pure concussive blast. Also, name a single time he's ever tried that against equal opponents. He didn't do it against Celestia and Luna. He didn't do it against Celestia in his timeline.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm also seriously questioning if his intang working against the Elements is an outlier since that apparently wasn't even an option the second time around. And he didn't think it would save him from Celestia and Luna either, seeing ehat happened last time he fought them.

Long story short, he's never dodged with intang in any other fight he's been in and the sole time he did is suspect.

 

[Phoenks]

This is a bloodlusted Sombra, and as MrKerf mentioned, they are like Twlight level.

Twlight couldn't even damage his crystal walls.

I don't have a clip but he used this pretty much instantly after the mane 6 lost the elements.

I would like to mention again that this is a bloodlusted Sombra so he is out of character for an MLP character completely.

 

[MrKerf]

Won't say anything rn about the first post, but the intang part is fairly easy to explain.

So, he was defeated 3 times, correct? By alicorn sisters, by crystal heart, and by deus ex machina.

The first time he wasn't a shadow yet, so he couldn't do it in the first place.

Even if we not considering some stuff about crystal heart, this is still a weakened Sombra. After all, he wasn't affected by crystal heart in season 9 at all.

The Deus Ex Machina is.. well, it is what it is. You can't counter the plot. Plus, judging by the scene of his death, it appears, to me at least, that he tried to, but failed.

 

[Lightbuster30]

This is a bloodlusted Sombra, and as MrKerf mentioned, they are like Twlight level.
Twlight couldn't even damage his crystal walls.

I don't have a clip but he used this pretty much instantly after the mane 6 lost the elements.

I would like to mention again that this is a bloodlusted Sombra so he is out of character for an MLP character completely.

Yeah, end of season 9 Twilight who fully scales to Celestia and stronger than herself at the start of season 9.

Massive outlier since Celestia can shatter dark magic crystals and Tirek can shatter magic negging crystals himself. At least strong enough to neg Starlight's magic. Just like it's an massive outlier for Tirek to completely tank Starswirl's energy blasts. Or an outlier for Chrysalis to KO Starlight with the mere air pressure from her explosion. Side note: Twilight was actually blocking the same blasts that created those crystals when she was fully confident. By comparison, the Twilight who couldn't shatter his crystals was the same Twilight who didn't think she stood a snowballs chance in hell at fighting him and was emotionally compromised from seeing the Tree of Harmony; their greatest weapon, shatter.

I said he's never dodged with intang. The clip you're talking about just has him using it in general. His responce to the Main 6 attacking him was to trap them, not turn into darkness. I never said he's never transformed into darkness. I said that of all the times he's been attacked, he only used it to dodge one time.

Why the hell is Sombra bloodlusted while the other two aren't?

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Remove my previous vote.

I vote while they're busy fighting each other, the Mane Six show up and Friendship Nuke them. Then similar show events happen with the addition of Sombra statue.

Or in other words, Tirek and Chrysalis because apparently Sombra can never have anything nice.

 

[MrKerf]

A would advice you to come up with a better reasons, but okay. Vote readded.

Also, for Light.

While I never recall Celestia shattering Sombra's dark crystals, Tirek was shattering only a part of the Chrysi's throne, which, unlike Sombra's, while negates magic, is not immune to magic itself. Apparently... Either way it shouldn't matter, since it is not the same crystals, both in size and in power (apparently). Although I would like to see when Celestia was destroying Sombra's crystals.

For Twi to blocking the blast is irrelevant either, since the blast itself isn't negating magic.

Sombra is bloodlusted because they're much more powerful ap'wise. And there's two of them.

 

[MrKerf]

Also, for the record:

Here Chrysi says that throne can deny the Legion's magic too.

Note: Ohh, now I think I see, you're talking about this moment, when Celestia first shows dark magic, correct?

I'll wait till you get back to your pc.

 

[Lightbuster30]

She shattered Dark Magic crystals she created with her magic. "But they weren't Sombra's." Ok and? Why the sam hell would they gain magic negating properties just because Sombra is the one using them? They're still crystals generated by dark magic. "But Sombra's crystals blocked magic, hers didn't!" Or OR; here me out on this: Maybe, just maybe, dark magic crystals don't work on people with comparable strength. I mean, let's be real, the best it negged was Flurry Heart (Whom we have no clue how she scales to the top tiers, let alone Celestia tiers), an emotionally compromised Twilight, and Shining Armor (Shining Armor actually got negged because the crystals grew on his horn which was physically blocking his magic. And yes, barriers on the horn can canonically disrupt magic.as shown by Sweetie Belle at the Start of Season 4). They have no feats negging magic from Celestia tiers.

No one cares if Tirek shattered "part" of the throne. That "part" was still strong enough to neg Starlight's magic, and utterly failed on Tirek. Also, I'm calling a no limits fallacy on Dark Magic crystals being immune to magic completely. Hell, I'd sooner call the throne immune to magic before I'd call Sombra's crystals immune. At least the throne can neg Discord's magic. Sombra has only ever negged people way weaker than him.

Where exactly do you think the crystals get their magic negating abilities from to begin with?

 

[Lightbuster30]

And Chrysalis was blatantly wrong. Tirek being a prime example.

 

[MrKerf]

I'm having a major doubts about the fact that ALL of the dark crystals are magic negating. After all, not only it was shown to work only when Sombra used it, but also only with two specific attacks. Also since when magic is willpower based? Don't know about season 4, can't find this moment.

Perhaps throne parts (at least this small) cannot keep already casted magic from working, only blocking the magic inside the living beings.

From Sombra, duh.

Chrysi is the only one who knows something about her throne. And even if we assume that Tirek was able to break through a magic nulling crystal, we have to consider the fact that Chrysi and Cozy can't do the same.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm having a major doubts about the fact that ALL of the dark crystals are magic negating. After all, not only it was shown to work only when Sombra used it, but also only with two specific attacks.

Also since when magic is willpower based? Don't know about season 4, can't find this moment.
Perhaps throne parts (at least this small) cannot keep already casted magic from working, only blocking the magic inside the living beings.
From Sombra, duh.
And even if we assume that Tirek was able to break through a magic nulling crystal, we have to consider the fact that Chrysi and Cozy can't do the same.
Give me one good reason to assume that ALL dark magic created crystals DON'T have magic negating properties. Saying "they only worked when Sombra did it" isn't an excuse. Celestia is the only other person to use mark magic crystals so that isn't a good argument. If you're going to argue that only Sombra has that property, then you'd better give a damned good reason why he's the exception, or I'm calling bullshit. Why should I believe they have different properties just because the person casting it is different? That's such a pathetically flimsy reason to say something like that. The magic forming it is the same. The spell creating them is the same.

What? You mean you can use your abilities to their full extent when in a state of complete fear, panic, and despair? Jokes aside, because that's how things typically work in the first place. Also, Starlight explicitly states that your emotional state influences your magic.

That is complete and utter headcanon. It's nothing more than a guess that has nothing backing it.

Or maybe from his Dark Magic? They don't get that property from Sombra, they get it from the magic he wields.

Care to back that up? It's literally a concussive blast of magic and nothing else. Asking me to assume Chrysalis and Cozy can't overpower the crystal is basically asking me to assume a raw concussive blast with the sole purpose of hurting someone, somehow had some secret, special, super, property that makes it immune to magic nullification. And all because the person casting it was Tirek.

 

[MrKerf]

Why would we assume they do? Dark crystals all have different purposes. Some acts as an illusion maker, some as a magic null, and some are the same crystals without purpose, like the ones in the crystal empire, just black. It's a nlf to assume that all dark magic made crystals negate magic. Especially when, again, it was used in this manner only by one character.

Willpower or not, crystal prison negated Twilight's magic two times. In CE and in season 9. I do not believe that any willpower drop would drop you from completely shattering crystals (like Celestia did) to absolutely no effect.

Well, yes, of course. I was meant it. Just wanted to point out that he got a higher degree of Dark magic (which should be obvious, considering the fact that Sombra using only dark magic).

Well again, Chrysi should have knowledge about the throne, so her words should have some weight.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The crystal is blatantly not the same as ones that are naturally formed by Dark Magic. It was clearly enchanted to be that way and isn;t a natural power of the crystal. Funnily enough, the crystal did negate Twilight's magic as her spell failed on it initially. Sorry, but it's not a nlf. This is basic sense. You still given me any reason to assume that crystals formed from the same spell and magic have different properties and I'm not backing down on this point until that happens. It also wasn't used in a sole singular purpose. The random crystals Sombra grew on Shining Armor's horn were negging his magic. Yes, I know what I said about obstructions on the horn but I personally believe with was a mixture of both. The crystals still allowed Shining Armor to activate his magic, they only stopped him from lighting his horn completely, stopping the aura where the crystals began. That didn't happen when Rarity obstructed her horn.

Really? We're using Season 3 Twilight as one of our examples to say the crystals can neg Celestia tier magic? I don't think I need to explain why I don't buy that. Look, saying "I don't believe" isn't an argument. Fact is: Twilight was emotionally devastated after seeing the Tree of Harmony shatter in front of her. And since magic is tied to emotions, that's easily a great excuse to say her magical might was influenced.

Using Dark Magic more often than other people Ôëá being more skilled at it. Especially not when he uses the same bag of tricks with it each time. Dark magic is at least as powerful as the normal magic of the wielder. It's literally regular magic influenced by hatred and fear. That's it. Besides, he only ruled for a short period of time before getting banished, and Celestia certainly knew the ins and outs of it well enough.

There's a thing called being wrong. No one cares how much she knows about her throne when what is shown on screen contradicts what is said. She probably overestimated the ability of the shards because the throne nulled the likes of Discord in the past.

 

[MrKerf]

Look, we can't say that this is the same spell. Yes, the dark magic spells are casted always with the dark-glowing horn and eyes. We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two spells, if, let's say, both of them spawned visually identical crystals, which are different inside.

No, the fact is: Twilight magic was blocked. That's it. Can you provide the link to Starlight saying that magic is emotion tied.

It's actually wasn't contradicted, since she was telling that to Cozy, not Tirek.

I actually forget about half of my arguments while was walking home, so I'll write other stuff, if I'll remember them.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Look, we can't say that this is the same spell. Yes, the dark magic spells are casted always with the dark-glowing horn and eyes. We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two spells, if, let's say, both of them spawned visually identical crystals, which are different inside.No, the fact is: Twilight magic was blocked. That's it. Can you provide the link to Starlight saying that magic is emotion tied.
It's actually wasn't contradicted, since she was telling that to Cozy, not Tirek.

I actually forget about half of my arguments while was walking home, so I'll write other stuff, if I'll remember them.

That's not something you can prove. Unless you can provide substancial evidence that the crystals are different internally then there's no reason to assume they have different properties. And if they don't have different properties, then I don't have a reason to believe they can't negate magic.

You do realize that if her magic got blocked in a weakened state then you can't say she'll get blocked at full power right? Can't find a link. I know the quote but not the video.

Once again, Tirek broke the crystal with brute magical force. You want to prove brute force has special magic negation immunity then go right ahead. Makes much more sense that his magic was just too strong to be negated. Oh, and Chrysalis was blatantly referring to all of them. She said the crystals could negate their magic.

 

[MrKerf]

But that's a thing: we don't have enough proof for all of crystals to negate magic either, because it was negating only 2 times.

If it's not tied to her emotions, than it's not a weakened state. Fine, I'll look up myself. Gonna need some time though.

I don't want to proof anything, my theory is that this shards are strong enough to block magic only from living beings, and not active magic. But again, I can't prove it. (Although, I'm interested, what do you think about the fact, that shards weren't able to stop Starlight blast as well?)

 

[Lightbuster30]

But that's a thing: we don't have enough proof for all of crystals to negate magic either, because it was negating only 2 times.
If it's not tied to her emotions, than it's not a weakened state. Fine, I'll look up myself. Gonna need some time though.

I don't want to proof anything, my theory is that this shards are strong enough to block magic only from living beings, and not active magic. But again, I can't prove it.

Thing is: There are no anti-feats saying they can't. If there were serious, non PIS anti-feats suggesting otherwise, I might not be arguing against it.

"Well, I've always found magic is tied to my emotions. Whatever I'm feeling fuels whatever I'm doing, and the stronger I'm feeling, the stronger the magic." This is the exact quote. I looked it up by searching for the episode transcripts.

Active magic IS magic from living beings. There's literally no difference. A magic blast is literally no different from magic from "living beings" except in application. Magic is even referred to as life force when used by living entities.

 

[MrKerf]

I feel like this is a stalemate with zero evidence in both directions.

Yeah, already found it. The episode itself and the context of the phrase is telling us that this emotion link is Starlight-specific.

Yeah, but actually no. Is it really that hard to believe that shards can block only the magic from leving beings, when, for example, Tirek's absorption follows the exact same rules?

 

[Lightbuster30]

It's all we've seen them do when they interact with magic.

Absolutely not, otherwise she wouldn't be using it as advice to Trixie.

This ain't absorption, this is a dude firing a beam of magic/life-force at someone. It is that hard to believe.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Pointing this out now: Dark Magic is literally what happens when hatred and fear take over when using their magic, it's literally nothing more than that. And Twilight's magic began turning dark out of sheer frustration from trying to catch the door. The emotion link is absolutely not Starlight specific.

 

[MrKerf]

Okay, let's drop the crystal's subject for now.

Absolutely yes, she was asked how she doing it.

I'm not saying that it is absorption, I'm saying that in both instances Tirek and Starlight were using "active" magic. Which means that shards can't block it.

What? Heeeeell no. Twilight's magic wasn't turning dark because of frustration, she just understood that Sombra's (read dark) door can only be opened via Sombra's (read dark) magic. That's all. And the "hatred and fear" is not true either. Celestia was just showing an example of what will happend if tirant will be at the top, that's why she used dark magic. Magic is not emotion based.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Which is pure headcanon.

Heeeeell yes. Her magic visibly turns darker as she gets more agitated. She's clearly using dark magic out of frustration.

You cannot prove that intepretation. Yes it is. Chrysalis was literally defeated the first time that way. Cadance recharged her shield this way. Nightmare Moon was nothing more than an alter ego formed out of resentment, yet Luna lost Nightmare Moon's powers after getting blasted by the Elements for a second time. Starlight is not the exception, she's the example.