• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Kenganverse massive problems

Status
Not open for further replies.
3,438
783
So I initially agreed to the recent Kengan revisions (which I didn't look too closely at Ill admit)

Problem 1:

After the changes where made to peoples profiles I noticed that non God Tiers in the verse where literally just not changed to fit around the new scaling of the God Tiers.

Fei is still High 8-C in Divine Demon despite being able to significantly damage Julius who is possibly Low 7-C.

Kure Raian is 8-C despite Agito stating his blows are more powerful then Waka's.

Im not sure why the original CRT was closed without all the relevant profiles being updated which is one problem...

Problem 2:

the calcs are just bad...and I mean really bad...


The way this calc uses a cylinder as it's shape and the way it calcs the speed of the dust is just...wrong, now I don't know the right way to calc it but it's assuming the dust is moving at an absurdly high speed.


The Low 7-C calc here is just a joke. It doesn't reference the actual feat (which was performed by a clash between two people and doesn't take that into account)

If the first calc isn't correct then the second calc is a MASSIVE outlier as it has no supporting feats.

Problem 3:

None of the Low 7-C stuff is even outlined on any ones profile nor is it linked on any ones profile. It's almost as if we don't want people seeing these terrible calcs/scaling...

(I shouldn't even be linking it because its irrelevant but here is a reddit post from average Kengan readers ripping town level to shreds because you know common sense...)

Common sense would dictate (and anyone who has actually read Kengan can attest to the fact) this is not a verse where the power disparity between people is enough to literally vaporise their opponents with a punch nor destroy a town with a single blow...like anyone who knows anything about Kengan knows the whole point of the verse is that it's somewhat grounded in reality, we don't see massive shockwaves generated from their attacks that would literally damage the crowd watching the fight if they where actually Low 7-C... (I know, I know AOE fallacy and what not but I really think Kengan is a verse where this shouldnt apply and considering the feats are outliers anyway)

TLDR:

The current scaling/verse structure of Kengan is really really bad and the last CRT shouldn't have been accepted/closed without updating all the relevant profiles.

I propose we revert back to the old scaling around Saw Pangs feat.
 
Last edited:
Also two questions

Where does the 8-B feat come from? Like I’ve never seen it lol

Also why was the low 7-C even accept? Like that feat was done with two people and nobody in Asura comes even close to that power. I hear in Omega there was an 8-A, but that was done during a time skip.

Also what about the speed? The Kengan verse was going to be downgrade ages ago with a thread that was accepted to downgrade the verse but nobody ever did?

Any way gonna wait for more responses but I do agree so far
 
Also two questions

Where does the 8-B feat come from? Like I’ve never seen it lol

Also why was the low 7-C even accept? Like that feat was done with two people and nobody in Asura comes even close to that power. I hear in Omega there was an 8-A, but that was done during a time skip.

Also what about the speed? The Kengan verse was going to be downgrade ages ago with a thread that was accepted to downgrade the verse but nobody ever did?

Any way gonna wait for more responses but I do agree so far
Waka's punches being '5x stronger then ohma's'' who is High 8-C I guess. Idk the whole CRT was a mess. Apparently there is one being planned to fix it..I dunno why the first was applied in that case.
 
Ok but fr speed is still an issue. A mid tier performs the speed feat in the series while god tiers get place far lower in speed. Like definition of outlier lol
 
I do agree that we should have waited until the current profiles were actually updated before closing that revision. right now, the scaling is an absolute mess, since most of the profiles haven't been updated. I've gone around and updated a few of them, but most are still unchanged, so the verse as a whole looks really REALLY bad right now.
 
ok but I’m I the only person who remember the downgrade thread? It was at the old website so I’m not sure if people remember it
 
The Low 7-C calculation simply does not work. I don't see why shaking a building = moving tectonic plates. And anyway, the calculation confused metres with kilometres. The real result is below than 8-B even if you consider an earthquake
 
There is a Kengan CRT in the works apparently but leaving the verse in such a messed up state till then leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
Saw Paing also shaked the building with a shout, so if we follow the same logic he is 8-B/Low 7-C as well
Saw's is clearly and evidently a joke so I'm not even sure why you'd use this as a comparison whenever we both know this to be fact.
So I initially agreed to the recent Kengan revisions (which I didn't look too closely at Ill admit)

Problem 1:

After the changes where made to peoples profiles I noticed that non God Tiers in the verse where literally just not changed to fit around the new scaling of the God Tiers.

Fei is still High 8-C in Divine Demon despite being able to significantly damage Julius who is possibly Low 7-C.

Kure Raian is 8-C despite Agito stating his blows are more powerful then Waka's.
I've already explained this part so I'll tell you again, hold your flipping horses. Secondly, Kanoh's statement is contradicted by Ohma's own of Wakatsuki's blows being heavier than Raian's.
Im not sure why the original CRT was closed without all the relevant profiles being updated which is one problem...
Because it's exactly as I said, as the edits were being made another CRT was made which took priority. Again patience is a virtue.
Problem 2:

the calcs are just bad...and I mean really bad...


The way this calc uses a cylinder as it's shape and the way it calcs the speed of the dust is just...wrong, now I don't know the right way to calc it but it's assuming the dust is moving at an absurdly high speed.
Know what your talking about please, because this isn't even in the profile anymore.

The Low 7-C calc here is just a joke. It doesn't reference the actual feat (which was performed by a clash between two people and doesn't take that into account)
The only joke is your lacking of understanding to be frank, you mistake Ohma's shaking feat for Wakatsuki and Julius's. Ohma shook the dome himself.
If the first calc isn't correct then the second calc is a MASSIVE outlier as it has no supporting feats.
They both support each other, both being tier 7 one way or another.
Problem 3:

None of the Low 7-C stuff is even outlined on any ones profile nor is it linked on any ones profile. It's almost as if we don't want people seeing these terrible calcs/scaling...

(I shouldn't even be linking it because its irrelevant but here is a reddit post from average Kengan readers ripping town level to shreds because you know common sense...)
Common sense in this case is argument out of sheer disbelief. Reddit is also the same place where they think Kengan is wall level and Baki characters are City level so already off to a bad start there. Secondly Ohma's Low 7-C feat is literally linked in his profile so that's blatantly dishonest.
Common sense would dictate (and anyone who has actually read Kengan can attest to the fact) this is not a verse where the power disparity between people is enough to literally vaporise their opponents with a punch nor destroy a town with a single blow
Luckily none of the profiles even remotely imply such. The gap isn't nearly enough to vaporize other characters, not sure where you got that figure other than to seem overlydramatic.
...like anyone who knows anything about Kengan knows the whole point of the verse is that it's somewhat grounded in reality,
It's not grounded in reality at all, this is typical Reddit bullshit to try to downplay the verse, crazy hax, much superior speed, AP, so on and so forth. You'd die literally trying any of the training regimens there, it being a Martial arts manga is irrelevant when it comes to "being grounded in reality." So wall level Kengan, Baki and Kenichi characters when?
we don't see massive shockwaves generated from their attacks that would literally damage the crowd watching the fight if they where actually Low 7-C... (I know, I know AOE fallacy and what not but I really think Kengan is a verse where this shouldnt apply and considering the feats are outliers anyway)
Like you said yourself, AoE fallacy so that's irrelevant. And you haven't even began to explain how they're outliers whenever I've already countered that point in my first thread.
TLDR:

The current scaling/verse structure of Kengan is really really bad and the last CRT shouldn't have been accepted/closed without updating all the relevant profiles.
It's bad because I didn't have time to edit everything, patience is a virtue lad.
I propose we revert back to the old scaling around Saw Pangs feat.
Disagree with this entirely, there's absolutely no reason why we should discredit all of the calculations whenever they haven't been debunked nor countered.


TLDR; Calm the **** down and don't try jumping the gun here whenever me and a handful of other users are already planning on fixing the pages and the calculations. All you've really managed to do here is make yourself look incredibly inpatient and arguably even unfamiliar with the series considering you really have little to no idea what your even talking about. Especially by linking a flipping Sub Reddit thread where people aren't aren't giving constructive criticism? Yeah no, you just linked a random Reddit thread of people bashing the wiki.
 
Last edited:
The Low 7-C calculation simply does not work. I don't see why shaking a building = moving tectonic plates.
Mainly because of our wiki standards???? We use the same formula for shockwaves and earthquake's, if you disagree with that then make CRT to change it.
And anyway, the calculation confused metres with kilometres. The real result is below than 8-B even if you consider an earthquake
Part of the reason why I wanted to wait, so I could discuss the calcs with the person who made it rather than waste time bickering, especially with someone who has little to no idea where the ratings even came from.
 
Ohma's mountain feat isn't even accepted and the shaking the Kengan dome feat is an outlier and the guy who made the calc even says its an outlier. It's literally as simple as that and honestly I couldn't care less about you not having enough time to edit all the profiles, the CRT shouldn't of been closed prior to the edits being completed. Leaving the verse in the complete sorry state it is is a joke.

Can you blame people for being confused about the ratings/calcs when the verse had a CRT applied in a half finished state?
 
Ohma's mountain feat isn't even accepted
You mean Demonsbane? That's gonna end up as Low 7-C+ most likely so moot point. And if it's not accepted why even bring it up in the first place? You seem to have cornered yourself.
and the shaking the Kengan dome feat is an outlier and the guy who made the calc even says its an outlier.
DragonGamerZ913 also doesn't read Kengan Ashura and even agreed with me on it not being an outlier so next argument.
It's literally as simple as that and honestly I couldn't care less about you not having enough time to edit all the profiles, the CRT shouldn't of been closed prior to the edits being completed. Leaving the verse in the complete sorry state it is is a joke.
The CRT was meant to deal with God Tiers and lower Tiers, I started editing God Tiers and then a CRT was made so I had to put that to the side, I literally have a Google doc with all the information saved for the updated profiles, again I never had the chance to implement them due to the multitude to distractions. Let's not be intentionally ignorant here, and again you really have no other arguments other than "this is a joke..." "outlier..." and so on. Also I don't care that you "don't care about me not having enough time." I didn't say this has an excuse for you to forgive me to take a seat.
Can you blame people for being confused about the ratings/calcs when the verse had a CRT applied in a half finished state?
Yes I absolutely can whenever I already explained things to you in particular in full detail, then you jump the gun.
 
Also Waka and Julius do 'shake the Kengan dome' in their first clash.
Never said they didn't, notice how I didn't mention Julius and Wakatsuki. Low 7-C comes from Ohma, Julius and Wakatsuki shaking the dome is another feat in of itself. Again this tells me you aren't quite reading what your complaining about.
 
You mean Demonsbane? That's gonna end up as Low 7-C+ most likely so moot point. And if it's not accepted why even bring it up in the first place? You seem to have cornered yourself.
Because its your only supporting feat for a terrible Low 7-C calc?
DragonGamerZ913 also doesn't read Kengan Ashura and even agreed with me on it not being an outlier so next argument.
Considering the next best feat we have is 8-C it literally is if the Ohma Demonsbane calc is bad which it is. You reference the calc is going to come out higher when it isn't even made yet? by our standards this is literally the definition of an outlier
The CRT was meant to deal with God Tiers and lower Tiers, I started editing God Tiers and then a CRT was made so I had to put that to the side, I literally have a Google doc with all the information saved for the updated profiles, again I never had the chance to implement them due to the multitude to distractions. Let's not be intentionally ignorant here, and again you really have no other arguments other than "this is a joke..." "outlier..." and so on. Also I don't care that you "don't care about me not having enough time." I didn't say this has an excuse for you to forgive me to take a seat.
Where is this mystical CRT? I cannot locate it anywhere nor does it excuse leaving the verse in a terrible state for a month.
Yes I absolutely can whenever I already explained things to you in particular in full detail, then you jump the gun.
I don't agree with your explanations/state of the verse hence the CRT.
 
Has anyone even looked at the currently applied calcs to for Low 7-C? they are actually terrible... and only accepted by the Mod who created them...
 
The fact that we are doing a CRT around a completely different Low 7-C calc and have left half the verse in complete disarray until it is applied/accepted is enough of a reason to revert the previous half applied CRT imo.
 
Never said they didn't, notice how I didn't mention Julius and Wakatsuki. Low 7-C comes from Ohma, Julius and Wakatsuki shaking the dome is another feat in of itself. Again this tells me you aren't quite reading what your complaining about.
Ohma's dome shaking feat is done with a demonsbane that adds the power of Waka's blow to his anyway...why would he scale to the full yield?
 
yeah sick lets just leave the verse in a complete shit show till some imaginary Low 7-C calc gets applied for months. If you guys are cool with it thats fine, just thought the wiki had higher standards I guess.
 
Because its your only supporting feat for a terrible Low 7-C calc?
You mean the same calculation that you yourself haven't debunked? Before labeling a calc as terrible then you should at the very least have some form of experience in calculations, which from what I'm gathering you don't. 8-A from Wakatsuki, multiplier's etc.
Considering the next best feat we have is 8-C
Yeah, not true whenever we have a 8-A feat from Wakatsuki and multipliers that make them 8-B.
it literally is if the Ohma Demonsbane calc is bad which it is.
Bad to you without actually explaining why =/= the calc being flawed. All I'm hearing from you is argument out of disbelief.
You reference the calc is going to come out higher when it isn't even made yet?
Yes because of simple experience in calculations? It doesn't take a genius to make a rough estimate for a pretty easy calc to make.
by our standards this is literally the definition of an outlier.
And tell me, what's our definition of an outlier here? Hm? Enlighten me. Because the difference is literally less than 2x.
Where is this mystical CRT? I cannot locate it anywhere nor does it excuse leaving the verse in a terrible state for a month.
Here and it wasn't for a month either, preferably learn how to count and learn how not to be so dramatic. Takes 2 seconds to find threads via their tags btw.
I don't agree with your explanations/state of the verse hence the CRT.
And your reasoning for disagreeing is extremely flawed.
Has anyone even looked at the currently applied calcs to for Low 7-C? they are actually terrible... and only accepted by the Mod who created them...
DemongodMitch and DragonGamer aren't the same mod??? The **** are you even talking about? This again is solid proof of you actually not knowing what your talking about.
The fact that we are doing a CRT around a completely different Low 7-C calc and have left half the verse in complete disarray until it is applied/accepted is enough of a reason to revert the previous half applied CRT imo.
This isn't for a completely different Low 7-C. It's not in disarray either, again quit overreacting.
Ohma's dome shaking feat is done with a demonsbane that adds the power of Waka's blow to his anyway...why would he scale to the full yield?
Ohma didn't use a Demonsbane to shake the Dome, this is never stated nor implied. By the time Wakatsuki got back up he was on his last legs, Ohma would have no reason to use Demonsbane on someone's he's practically already beaten. He did that with a strike, not a Demonsbane counter.
 
yeah sick lets just leave the verse in a complete shit show till some imaginary Low 7-C calc gets applied for months. If you guys are cool with it thats fine, just thought the wiki had higher standards I guess.
This just sounds like you being childish and salty. Blatant boy who cried wolf.
 
wait. so I'm a bit confused.

if we're going to get a new CRT then why were any of the profiles changed at all? I saw Agito and some of the other profiles changed so I figured it was good to change the others. but if now we're waiting for a new CRT wouldn't it have been better to not edit the god tiers at all?

no hate, just confused about how were going about this.
 
wait. so I'm a bit confused.

if we're going to get a new CRT then why were any of the profiles changed at all? I saw Agito and some of the other profiles changed so I figured it was good to change the others. but if now we're waiting for a new CRT wouldn't it have been better to not edit the god tiers at all?

no hate, just confused about how were going about this.
No hate gathered.


I edited the God Tiers right before the downgrade attempt was made. The reason why there's confusion is because people here are missing up the time of events.

Basically goes like this


My CRT gets accepted >> I start making edits >> A downgrade threads appears to which I had to pause and debunk >> New calculations are being made.



I can certainly wrap up the editing for the Low to high tiers since they won't be affected by God Tier feats.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top