Kazuradrop vs Demogorgon (Fight for the Strongest 6-C)

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Somehow the Creepiest Sakura 5 Member vs Not the stranger things one

Speed Equalized. Both are 6-C. I'm sure this will be the first of many Nasu vs DnD threads

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I think Orcus is the strongest for this? Regardless, Im pretty sure Demogorgon has like, dozens of dozens of dozens of layers of resistance (and resistance negation) just like any other strong DnD character

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

He probably does, but Kazuradrop has something special about her law hax. It doesn't work the usual way. She has essentially made it so that a 3rd party ref will never acknowledge that her enemy has landed an attack on her. She has removed her hit box. Unless you can reimpose her hit Box, or have resisted this specific brand of law hax, you probably aren't gonna land it unless you press the NLF button

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think Orcus is the strongest for this? Regardless, Im pretty sure Demogorgon has like, dozens of dozens of dozens of layers of resistance (and resistance negation) just like any other strong DnD character

Yeah, we are probably gonna need to do a few matches. Nasuverse authority users also have obscene layers of resistances and bypassing resistances

 

[Overlord775]

@Oblivion

Demon is the stronger of the two, as told me by Bambu

@Ilaptius

This is D&D, he has multiple dozens of layers of resistances, so im gonna need proof of what you are saying.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh, I thought you were knowledgeable on how Authority works. How much do you know about it and how much do you need to know?

 

[Overlord775]

How do you expect me to know about the number of layers her authorithy works at <-<

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Idk, general fate knowledge? We don't know the exact number of layers, but for each class of god, it totally trumps the previous layer. Out of the hundreds of thousands of millions of gods in the hindu pantheon, with the different types of divine spirits being at different levels of authority, Kazuradrop has access to Authority of The Moon and the authority of imaginary numbers, which sit very close to the top from what we understand. Also, the divine authority sits above the various kinds of nation level and natural kinds of authority, from what we understand

 

[Overlord775]

that is not general Fate knowlage in the slightest tho

Like, general would be understanding how Servants work

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh ok aight. Have I helped you understand then?

 

[Overlord775]

Does the Authority of all those hundreds of thousands of millions of gods work on a 2-A scale ?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yes, but I'll give context. Even a random unnotable sub God like Karna's father still trumped the authority of BB, just because it out classed them. Essentially, if you have higher authority, then AP and potency of hax should be theoretically irrelevant (accounting for the NLF button of course). So, to make a long story short, if a 2-A being lacked the authority backing, then even a 6-C divine spirit would still trump them

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. To be absolutely clear, Demogorgon is not the strongest 6-C in D&D. He is the strongest currently with a page under our current understanding.

2. I'll just go ahead and give the assumption that Fate characters can affect the abstract representation of chaos.

3. All of Demogorgon's actions are thought-based and/or passive, depending on which one you're referring to (for example, his Madness is all passive based on being near him).

4. The mere act of Demogorgon existing on a Plane would cause said Plane to be absorbed into the Abyss. As our current understanding has it, this includes his 6-C form, since in a neutral universe there's no counter-balance. What makes this notable is that the Abyss is a 2-A structure that actively brings back Demogorgon the second he's ****** up. It also actively attacks outsiders. And not just baseline 2-A either, we're talking fairly high into 2-A. Said Abyss has displayed the ability to lock-up a 5-D creature, given enough time (granted, it really only contained the 4-D part of it, but it did indeed just grow around the thing).

5. What does homegirl actually have to put him down? It isn't as if, say, she has any of the survivability enjoyed by Demogorgon. The guy has Type 8 based on the Abyss, can just make more versions of himself, Mid-Godly, so on and so forth. Meanwhile she has no regen and two types of Immortality, one of which is Type 5. Which would be good, assuming EE wasn't as easily accessible as it is here, and the fact that Type 2 Concept Manip means introducing the concept of death isn't actually hard. One could argue Higher-Dimensional Existence of her mind introduces an interesting situation where her mind is safe- if that were true! It's unknown how but characters of the Planes separated and contained Pandorym's mind and body, who is indeed a Low 1-C creature.

6. I don't really follow controversies much but is the Fate 2-A stuff still as controversial as it was or...?

 

[Overlord775]

Karna's father is a sun god tho, that would give him a lot of importance on the authorithy scale

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Bambu

The problem with the chaos thing is that BB (and my extension Kazuradrop) assumes that the fight takes place in the moon cell, or at least a digital representation of a given default environment. I'm pretty sure we can say that the moon cell would have a heavy balance towards order via verse equalization. Also, does it even have the feats of sinking such a massive structure as the moon cell into the abyss via just its presence?

She can use her BFR and absorption to deal with him. Also, yes, gods can effect eachother with their authority and true form gods in fate are abstract

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think you're misunderstanding. The structures that are sunk into the Abyss are planes themselves.

Plane = Universe

Also do we even do that for Top 5 fights, thought the only mod to SBA was like speed equal can share a spot and prep time if they need it to be in the tier and that was it

it doesn't really matter since just the existence of law and order isn't the same as being balanced by the abstract representations of law, made of law, but still

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I thought this is the stranger things Demogorgon being use lel

Anyway don't mind me, imma observing this match until someone voting

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Karna's father is a sun god tho, that would give him a lot of importance on the authorithy scale

High on the authority scale, but not physically, which is more what I was pointing out. He isn't some really OP and great sun God, or if he is he has never been portrayed as such up until this point.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Demon resists BFR and Absorption.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I know, but Kazuradrop has the authority backing to trump his resistances (or at least that is what I am currently arguing)

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think you're misunderstanding. The structures that are sunk into the Abyss are planes themselves.
Plane = Universe

Also do we even do that for Top 5 fights, thought the only mod to SBA was like speed equal can share a spot and prep time if they need it to be in the tier and that was it

it doesn't really matter since just the existence of law and order isn't the same as being balanced by the abstract representations of law, made of law, but still

Yes, The Moon Cell is an above baseline 2-A construct. Not just a Low 2-C construct.


BB's profile kinda makes it clear that her profile is for her in the moon cell, so matches with her must be naturally assumed to be in the moon cell.

The Moon Cell holds a record of basically all the gods in fate, who's true forms are abstract, and many of which are gods of law and order.

 

[Overlord775]

Planes in D&D are 2-A in size

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

He said they were universes. Are they multiverse in and of themselves?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's good but if we're talking size in a dimensional way I did mention that the Abyss took in a Low 1-C structure (albeit a living one), yes?

And, to be clear, planes are 2-A structures in of themselves but it gets hazy at that point. I can get the scans if we must but yes, they are 2-A in size.

I don't know who BB is, but this isn't her, no? This is just someone who happens to possess her powers.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The moon cell has infinite universes but if we are talking raw size and not AP then the moon cell has at least 8 axial dimensions in it.

I'm less concerned about scans at this point and more a question of how the cosmology works that a single universe can be 2-A in size.

Yes, this is functionally a composite of BB with a few other characters, so the same rules that binds BB's matches will naturally bind Kazuradrop matches. If this is not the case unless it is explicitly spelled out at the bottom of the profile then it was my mistake for not putting the same but modified Kazuradrop note that applied to BB when I posted the profile, and it is my oversight; may I have your bureaucratic permission to apply the note to the profile? If not, we can pause the match and I can make a quick CRT to get the note added. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Mr. Bambu]

TL;DR each planar layer is the same size as the Prime Material, the Prime Material comprises infinite universes.

If the profile is wrong then you can just fix it, if it's something that woulda been on there otherwise but something went wrong. Just got confused chief.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Ah, I see, so it is like a "bubble" large enough to hold an infinite multiverse inside it, and just because another one of these "bubbles" just so happens to not have a multiverse inside it does not mean it isn't a 2-A structure? Makes sense to me. However, even if portions of the moon cell descend into the abyss, most of the battle arena won't be inside it (I would picture it like putting a line across one side of the cube but on an even greater scale). In all honesty, the abyssal space would probably digitize into part of the environment of the moon cell, and then be sent to the far side of the moon cell where problematic info gets displaced to. This is gonna be a headache of a match lmao

Ok, I'll do so. It's all good

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

When did Surya's authority trump BB's?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

When did Surya's authority trump BB's?

It specifically trumped the authority of the moon cell, BB was able to bypass it with her lesser used authority of the imaginary numbers n shit like that. Essentially, it forced her to use most of the abilities she had that didn't come from the thing she had been trying to obtain kek

 

[Mr. Bambu]

the abyssal space would probably digitize into part of the environment of the moon cell, and then be sent to the far side of the moon cell where problematic info gets displaced to. This is gonna be a headache of a match lmao
	~ Iap​

Why? How does this affect it?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Uhh... because its what it does. It digitizes and replicates enviroments that it observes, and can digitize existing space. This isn't like its gonna be interfering with what the abyss does, and even if it can't digitize it, The Moon Cell still naturally displaces invasive or harmful forces into the far side (I'm not completely sure, but this doesn't include fighters, i'll have to ask the people who are more knowledgeable on the nuances of the Moon Cell's functions). Also, what would make you think it wouldn't be able to effect it?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right, but then doesn't the same thing just happen ad infinitum

I'm still going to point out that Demogorgon can just think and gg Kazura here, since she has no means of surviving whereas Demogorgon has plenty, but I'm confused on where you're going with the whole Moon Cell thing.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Nah, not really. The realm is technically already sunk into the abyss, but its literally less than sticking your toe in a puddle due to the sheer size of the Moon Cell.

What does he have that gets past her law hax and sheer authority? She can just clap her hands to transmute, then either BFR or absorb from there. Kazuradrop has plenty of thought based stuff for herself as well, such as her Space-Time manip. They also have passive subjective reality as well, which I notice is not one of the things that Demoman resists, unless that is just missing from their profile.

I was more trying to hammer out the details. Basically all the moon cell thing would mean is that he probably would not be able to return from the abyss on the far side of the moon if she does successfully kill them, and its probably not gonna make much of a difference when the abyss is naturally moved away from where they are fighting.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's good, but I don't see how that actually changes things still.

Outside of breaking lawhax by existing, also having lawhax via being the counterbalance to it, and outright resisting lawhax? Clapping hands is too long. Demogorgon thinks. And, again, resists BFR/Absorption. And Space-Time. And Subjective Reality. Subjective Reality is the same as Holy Manipulaton in D&D. And I do apologize for missing resistances, I can go get scans whenever but literally none of the profiles have any of the resistances unless their resistance is for whatever reason much better than the average for their tier.

Why? From what you're saying it's 2-A size and Demogorgon can sorta just teleport that distance. Like regardless of moon size, this battle is still in 3-D/4-D space.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Because The Moon Cell can have entered the abyss without them ever really encountering it, and his passive hax can still be accounted for while the abyss is in the far side

What kind of laws did they break? Kazuradrop's law hax works very abnormally, as I was explaining above. Yes, and Kazuradrop has thought based hax too. Yes, they resist it, but Kazuradrop's authority backing lets her trump the resistances due to working at a higher level. Now I'm interested how Holy Manipulation and Subjective reality are the same thing lol. How does it work? Its cool that some resistances are missing. I see that Nasu and DnD have the same problem that their catelouge of resistances is to vast that you just naturally end up missing stuff

Nah, in size it is 8D, can he teleport across higher D axes? It does contain a 2-A structures as well tho.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Again, I don't know how this actually translates to effect in battle.

Demons? All of them. We're talking about a world where light can be frozen and the concept of left can be bottled. Demons are the antithesis to the natural order of this, and to the imposed ideals of the gods. And... I'm not really convinced your gods actually have higher level resistances. That both seemed contested above and not really specific.

The short version of holy manip = subjective reality in D&D is that... every holy power sorta works purely because the user believes it works. If you believe it works on a higher level, it does so. This is the crux of the story involving Sertrous.

Yes, that's good, but that isn't actually relevant. They are not 8-D creatures and are only functioning on the 4-D layers of this 8-D structure. That's the point.