Kamen Rider Black Sun vs A-Town Down Under

[Shadowslash125]

Shawn Michaels get caught in a chokeslam position by The Undertaker, but he counters the move by using the momentum of him getting lifted up in the air to get out of harm's way. This is something Waller and Theory are more than capable of doing.

Looking at the video, it seems that Shawn rose out of the hold with his right hand and pushed away the choke with the left. This may not be possible with Kotaro's Class M LS, accompanied by his claws, which would help keep his choke in place, regardless of killing intent. Either that, or he can grab one of their legs and use it as a ragdoll to whack the non-grabbed combatant and/or chuck him at the other guy. With that much LS difference, there's going to be a lot of ways he can utilise it. Crushing bones is still a possibility, especially if Black Sun catches a punch or an arm.

Idk if we can use abilities someone has never performed in-series.

Probably not, and it's probably also not in character for him. Theoretically, it is possible, but yeah, it's best not to talk about dual-wielding when Kotaro has never done it before.

Edit: Trivial question, but what's the meaning and lore behind their duo name? Sounds lit on its own.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

How much can it amplified to?

Unquantifiable amp.

His amped kick sent Shadowmoon flying, then an amped punch knocked him out of transformation.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Looking at the video, it seems that Shawn rose out of the hold with his right hand and pushed away the choke with the left. This may not be possible with Kotaro's Class M LS

Shawn used the momentum of him getting propelled in the air to push away from the chokehold, which is something Waller and Theory can do.

accompanied by his claws, which would help keep his choke in place, regardless of killing intent.

Now that's a fair point. However, Waller and Theory can break the hold with a well-placed kick to the stomach, which is definitely going to make Kotaro break the hold, considering that he took a kick from two people that are 3-4x stronger than him.

Either that, or he can grab one of their legs and use it as a ragdoll to whack the non-grabbed combatant and/or chuck him at the other guy.

That's also fair.

With that much LS difference, there's going to be a lot of ways he can utilise it. Crushing bones is still a possibility, especially if Black Sun catches a punch or an arm.

This is also fair, but you also got to keep in mind that Waller and Theory are significantly more skilled, and that they have a variety of moves they can utilize. They're not just punch-kick merchants.

Edit: Trivial question, but what's the meaning and lore behind their duo name? Sounds lit on its own.

"A-Town Down" is a slang/phrase that is a reference to the city of Atlanta, Georgia, which is Austin Theory's hometown. A-Town Down is also the name of one of Theory's finishers.

However, the "Down Under" part of the tag team comes from Grayson Waller, who is Australian. This is basically the meaning/lore behind the tag name of A-Town Down Under. It's a very good play-on-words.

They also use it as their catchphrase as well.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Removing my vote, for now.
Gonna let you two debate first.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Shawn used the momentum of him getting propelled in the air to push away from the chokehold, which is something Waller and Theory can do.

Either this happens or this would be an opportunity for Black Sun to grab one of their legs and swing the wrestler at another. It would save the time needed to sweep down to grab their ankles.

Waller and Theory can break the hold with a well-placed kick to the stomach, which is definitely going to make Kotaro break the hold, considering that he took a kick from two people that are 3-4x stronger than him.

That's going to be rough, but his stamina should help him out so he can continue fighting. The force of their kicks can counter the chokehold, which is a fair point.

This is also fair, but you also got to keep in mind that Waller and Theory are significantly more skilled, and that they have a variety of moves they can utilize. They're not just punch-kick merchants.

Noted, but regardless the higher LS is Black Sun's biggest boon this match. If they get grabbed anytime (I figure Kotaro may be able to grab their arms or legs during their techniques due to his enhanced senses and extrasensory perception, even if they try to hit him from a blind spot), they'll be in for a world of hurt.

I have a few things I forgot to mention. Black Sun can tank better because his exoskeleton has damage reduction and he has regeneration (mid-low but it's better than nothing).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Noted, but regardless the higher LS is Black Sun's biggest boon this match. If they get grabbed anytime (I figure Kotaro may be able to grab their arms or legs during their techniques due to his enhanced senses and extrasensory perception, even if they try to hit him from a blind spot), they'll be in for a world of hurt.

Actually, A-Town Down Under have both fought Dexter Lumis before, who has a "sixth sense" which allows him to fight while blindfolded, so I wouldn't say Waller and Theory aren't completely unfamiliar with supernatural abilities like this.

I have a few things I forgot to mention. Black Sun can tank better because his exoskeleton has damage reduction and he has regeneration (mid-low but it's better than nothing).

Regeneration is fine, but Waller and Theory can definitely overcome it via doing enough damage to Black Sun to where he can't regenerate from it, or just plain knocking him out.

For Black Sun's damage reduction, is it potent enough to complete negate a 3-4x AP advantage?

 

[Shadowslash125]

For Black Sun's damage reduction, is it potent enough to complete negate a 3-4x AP advantage?

Unspecified just like his amp, so he won't completely negate a 3-4x AP advantage but it will help soften the blow. IIRC he tanked a finisher from Shadowmoon that had the unquantifiable amp. A-Town Down Under still has the advantage, but this can help him stay longer in the fight.

A-Town Down Under have both fought Dexter Lumis before, who has a "sixth sense" which allows him to fight while blindfolded

I wouldn't say it's like Kotaro's intuition but he actually has sensory organs for it.
The Sensor Antennae on his head can detect subtle changes in the environment, such as air currents and temperature, as well as the source of the attack, allowing for swift evasion and defense. &
Alarm Points are extra sensory organs that enable him to identify events that the naked eye cannot detect, such as presence hiding in shadows and murderous intent, as well as approaching dangers.
It could make a difference in this fight, depending on how you interpret it. I'm just stating this to clarify stuff.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I wouldn't say it's like Kotaro's intuition but he actually has sensory organs for it.
The Sensor Antennae on his head can detect subtle changes in the environment, such as air currents and temperature, as well as the source of the attack, allowing for swift evasion and defense. &
Alarm Points are extra sensory organs that enable him to identify events that the naked eye cannot detect, such as presence hiding in shadows and murderous intent, as well as approaching dangers.
It could make a difference in this fight, depending on how you interpret it. I'm just stating this to clarify stuff.

Yeah, this is not the same as Dexter's, so sneak attacks won't exactly work here, which is far from the end-all-be-all in this fight, but it's still somewhat noteworthy.

So if we're going to list all of the advantages each side has:

Kamen Rider Black Sun:

• Far higher LS
• Can detach limbs and use them as a sword
• Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception makes sneak attacks useless
• Damage Reduction can somewhat reduce the damage he takes
• Regeneration helps him recover any damage taken to an extent
• Can increase the amount of damage he gives out
• Has weaponry that causes piercing damage
• Very high stamina

A-Town Down Under:

• Significantly higher AP
• Much more skilled
• Their finishers do significantly more damage than their normal moves
• Can overwhelm the opponent with attacks considering it's a 2v1
• Can overtax the regeneration by causing enough damage Kotaro can't regenerate from (or knock him out)
• Have ways to avoid getting choked out or escaping Kotaro's grasp

So based off this, Kotaro technically has more things going for him. He's far more versatile in terms of hax/abilities, and ironically enough, despite this being a 2v1, he can overwhelm A-Town Down Under with said versatility. But, some of the advantages listed can only go so far him (Damage Reduction, Regeneration, Statistics Amplification). Plus, Kotaro has a significant physical disadvantage by about 3-4x. Whenever A-Town Down Under land an attack, it's going to hurt. Even his biggest advantages such as LS can be avoided to an extent. However, I don't think Kotaro's LS will be the hardest task for A-Town Down Under to overcome. I honestly think putting Kotaro down for good will be the hardest task. His stamina is quite crazy, and Damage Reduction and Regeneration, while not the end-all-be-all, only makes it harder for A-Town Down Under.

A-Town Down Under has the overall physical advantage, having a 3-4x AP advantage in AP, SS, and Dura, so when they land a hit on Kotaro, it's going to hurt. It makes it a lot worse too considering it's a 2v1. Add their finishers, which do significantly more damage than their normal moves, and Kotaro's in trouble. Them being much more skilled also increases the chances of them hitting their moves, as well as being somewhat harder to tag, especially Waller, considering he's very swift and can casually dodge strikes and counterpunch thanks to his amateur boxing background. However, while they have many ways to avoid danger, Class M LS is still Class M LS, and that's going to be a bitch to handle. Not too mention having to actively avoid getting their skin cut via piercing damage. Putting down Kotaro for good is also going to be a very tough task. This match can go either way.

This is my unbiased/objective opinion on this match.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Btw, for anyone wondering, y'all can vote now. We'd be debating in circles from this point, and I don't want to do that lol.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bump.

We need votes.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Yea your summary sums everything up. And I think I'm out of any new points to give. I'll wait for my vote till any other new argument or a FRA train comes. Personally, this is a pretty even battle and can go both ways, but it's probably not enough to be an incon

 

[Shadyboi0]

Voting Kotaro

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Imma vote Kotaro high diff for my reasons above.

The debate above definitely lists good reasons why both sides have an equal chance of winning, but I personally believe Kotaro will be able to tough it out before the WWE pair can take him down.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Forgot to vote here btw
Black Sun FRA.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Good arguments here but I'm gonna vote Black Sun. I think he has safe options to get out with his bike and jumping power to get out of bad positions and regen.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Wait his bike is there? Oh shit Yakuza Style Beatdown is even more of a wincon.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Black sun fra