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Kakuzu is Being Downplayed

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Tbf the paws and claws are the o lot things on the 2 tails shown not to be made of fire which is clearly shown to be wary he touched


Also did any of you even read the manga after that. Edo Kakuzu got damage by two Jonin and defeated by Choza and Tenten defeated one of his hearts as well
 
I think right now it ought to be proven that Matatabi actually has Large Island level+ Striking Strength, because right now all her profile says is " she should be able to physically produce the same energy as her Bijuudama " without offering any evidence for it.

It just looks like pure speculation.
 
AstralKing7 said:
Tbf the paws and claws are the o lot things on the 2 tails shown not to be made of fire which is clearly shown to be wary he touched

Also did any of you even read the manga after that. Edo Kakuzu got damage by two Jonin and defeated by Choza and Tenten defeated one of his hearts as well
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you are aware that the edo tensei jutsu weakens individuals and places them in a weaker state than their alive states right?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Whoever compared the Second Raikage to Kakashi, stop that right now. The second Raikage went undamaged even agaisnt the 8 tails, and his only real scar was caused by his own technique, so the technique scales.
Not to mention, Sasuke goes from piercing people with chidori to destroying massive meteorites, and Kakashi made the Raikiri even still having the chidori. The same technique doesn't have the same power if the person improves, why would a similar technique be any different just because they work similarly? Are you gonna tell me Killer Bee is 6-A with his pencils or his sword because he makes them cut better with lightning chakra, literally the same thing the Chidori and Raikiri do? No, because they aren't the same in power.

Kakashi was still keeping up and fighting on some level just using taijutsu and like Asura mentioned, even blocked one of his attacks without much issue. That's inconsistent no matter how you think about it.
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How is it inconsistent? Kakashi Raikiri bypasses a level of durability this would not scale to his actual attack potency.His taijutsu would not be relevent in this situation.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Getting stomped by someone is not much supporting evidence.

Still, we would be putting the feats in an off screen fight which ends with Yugiti apparently finished off by a technique that doesn't need to rely on AP, versus Kakazu fighting and being matched by a bunch of people that aren't High 6-C at all, in an extended fight that we see in full.

That's cherry picking.
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Noodles67 has demonstrated heavy implications that Kakuzu is the main one that fights Jinchurikis and that he would most logically be the one who drew blood from Yugito. In Kakuzu's fight against Kakashi and others it was very obvious that he was much stronger than all of them. Kakashi could only use the Raikiri, which should scale much higher than his taijutsu and durability, to do anything to Kakuzu (he still had to use an elemental advantage to take out a heart).
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
It's more based on the fact that Bijuu can hurt each other with physical attacks, despite being able to survive a Bijuu bomb.
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That should be reserved only for the Biju that actually have feats of hurting each other.

As far as I remember only Gyuki has survived a Biju Bomb hit; and he was still badly damaged from a barely charged Biju Bomb.
 
Prophesier said:
you are aware that the edo tensei jutsu weakens individuals and places them in a weaker state than their alive states right?
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Except his version barely weakened the person in question. Not even Naruto coukd do anything against the Second Kazekage's durability and Hell Stab. Kakazu by no means should be so immensely weak he ets defeated by normal jonins.
 
All of Kakuzu and Hidan's known attacks rely on AP so there is no speculation if they have abilities that would bypass durability or allow them todamage Yugito by other means. As for the edo tensei Kakuzu the Jonin that hurt him have no anti-feats so they would just scale to edo kakuzu. Edo kakuzu is also weakened so we don't know what his durability was then. TenTen hurt edo kakuzu with the bansho fan which once again would just mean she would scale to edo kakuzu wuth the fan, none of those are actual anti-feats. I've already shown that the bijuu are relative to each other and are capable of harming the 8 tails who can tank his own bijuu bombs.
 
  • Third Raikage @Lancelot. Sorry, I just don't want others to be confused with whom you're referring to.
 
@LSirLancelotDuLacl We don't know to quantify the nerf from Edo Tensei, but based off of what we seen it is very considerable. Also Kakuzu was defeated by weapons from Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki!
 
Re:LSirLancelotDuLacl


kabuto's edo tensei weakened them to the extent that when madara was revived and one shot the great deity gates (which were able to pin down the 10 tails) hashirama states that madara was only begining to regain his past power. so yes the edo tensei nerf placed on these individuals is very significant.
 
Not by a whole lot lmao. If that was the case alive Itachi would be stronger than KCM Naruto and Deidara would be stronger than Onoki. Sasori would be way stronger than Konkarou, Minato should also be stronger than Obito, even faster despite the fact that he fought the same Obito when he was younger. Hell this shit so inconsistent; it would make Base Minato stronger than KCM Naruto and BM Naruto since edos are so much weaker than their alive bodies. Edo Minato would scale above Naruto since Obito shouldn't have got any stronger with age
 
"Not even Naruto could do anything against the Second Kazekage's durability and Hell Stab" This argument only works if you can relate it to his alive self. It's entirely possible that his alive self is just so strong that even his edo is that powerful.

"Normal Jonin" isn't a thing these are both individual characters not a collective of "Jonin". These Jonin could easily just scale to Kakuzu and again Kakuzu was weakened and no you don't just get to claim he was "barely weakened" based on nothing.

Alive Itachi was sick Edo itachi wasn't that's why Edo was stronger.
 
You cannot quanitfy the nerf that edo tensei gives, so the edo kakuzu that was hurt would not scale to his alive state, and even if you argue tht it did, that would just mean those jonin that hurt him would also scale to kakuzu, they have no anti feats, and the only other situation where kakuzu was hurt was when tenTen was wielding the sage of 6 paths tool that actually enhances the amount of chakra a person can put into an attack hence why tenten would die if she used it more.
 
@Webcamparrot; the only known cases of Edo Tensei not restoring an individual to full strength is Hashirama and Tobirama.

Kakuzu would not have his durability lowered to the point where those two Jonin could easily cut him apart.
 
yes alive healthy itachi should scale to those levels of power, i do not see any problems with that. also you do know obito was around 14 years old when he fought minato, so are you implying that obito did not get stronger and lastly deidera was actually afraid of ohnoki when he was alive, deidera in no way scaled to alive ohnoki so i do not see where you are going with this point....
 
Alive Itachi in the novels was talked about in the novels tho I can't rememb how strong he was right now. Also we have average ratings for Jonins. That's how this site works. Those two Jonin don't scale for obvious reasons.

We can't jsut claim he was weakened by a whole lot when there is nothing to prove it.
 
@GodlyTae ... Since when does Chidori ignore durability or anything silly like that? You turn a stab in your hand into something more dangerous by making the hand vibrate, plus the electricity, but Chidori has never been durability negation.

@Jaja No, Jaja has demonstrated that he's the main heavy lifter because Hidan's utlitiy is being immortal and his hax ability. But how many Bijuu did they fight besides Matatabi? How "consistent" is this? And Kakashi didn't have to use Raikiri because Kakazu's is so way above him, he used it because Kakazu's jutsu literally makes his body way more resilient. And this isn't a Pokemon "thunder does more damage to earth" thing, the vibration quality of thunder techniques just lets it penetrate the solid earth techniques much easier, this isn't hard math. Raikiri also isn't immensely above Kakashi, as he can hurt people that can take it. Finally, they struggled because Kakazu is highly old, highly experienced, has a technique for every element so he's versatile, and he's pretty much 5 people in one because of his hearts. It's far from "he's just way more powerful", which falls flat on his face as Kakashi survives two of his techniques without much issue. That makes no sense if Kakazu is so much above them.
 
Literally every single Edo is an example of not restoring an individual to full strength. They were all weakened. Stop being blatantly dishonest and trying to lie to my face like that.
 
NoodIes67 said:
No Madara was also weakened to a ridiculous extent.
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... Madara was brought back even stronger than his prime.

He never lost to Edo Hashirama.
 
Re: Damage3245 you do know that when Orochimaru revived the first four Hokage that was the Perfected form of Edo Tensei? You acknowledging they are weaker just further supports that Kakuzu is nerfed.
 
And no, using Madara to quantify the "nerf" is ridiculous, unless we wanna act like he didnt absorb Senjutsu chakra shortly after awakening. We saw other characters that we had obviously seen fight and they weren't overwhelmingly weaker, not even close.
 
@JajasBizarreAdventure; even Madara noted that for some unknown reason Hashirama and Tobirama couldn't bring out their full strength.

No other Edo Tensei has had that pointed out.

If it was simply due to them being Edo Tensei, that would have been stated.
 
@Noodle What you fail to consider and mention is that Madara has the Hashirama face in his chest just after ressurecting, meaning he's empowered with Hashirama cells. Not only this, his only feat BEFORE he absorbs all of Hashirama's Sage Chakra, boosting him enormously, is him batting Base Form, exhausted Naruto and someone else away. It's a nerf, but not even close to the level you would need to make Kakazu get destroyed by two jonin. He's a bit weaker, not massively nerfed.

@Godly And wind is weak against fire because it just enhances the flame, and fire agaisnt water because water douses flames, and water agaisnt earth because the solid earth can deal with the water much better, and so lightning against Earth because lightning can penetrate through earth much better. AGAIN, this ain't Pokemon and you aren't dealt more damage because "elements", this is just compatibility. And compatibility isn't gonna close a gap that maasivem
 
He also had the hashirama as an edo so thats wrong, but you cannot just arbitrarily say that it's a minor nerf, when we have no idea the extent of a nerf it is. Your claim is headcanon and based upon nothing more than "I don't think he's that weak." And again that jonin point has already been made and debunked, but you never responded to it. Instead of being dishonest read my refutation. Since Kakuzu is weakened to an unquantifiable extent, he would not scale to his alive variant. Also those Jonin do not have any anti feats so even if you argue that they do scale to alive kakuzu, that wouldn't downplay his durability as that is there only feat.
 
@Noodles67; are you seriously arguing that those two Jonin are on the same level as the Biju?
 
NoodIes67 said:
Yes I am really arguing that, those aren't random Jonin, those are characters in the series and they have that feat without contradiction so they logically would be. this is also a steelman of my previous Kakuzu's durability was unqauntifiable due to being weakened argument.
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You don't think it would be at all unusual for these couple of pair of random Jonin (doesn't really matter that they're named or not) to be on the level of fighting a Tailed Beast?

You need to prove that Kakuzu's durability is actually weaker, not just assume it.

Even if we make the leap to say that every Edo Tensei's power is weaker to an unknown agree, that doesn't automatically mean their durability is too.
 
@Godly No, I am just using common sense unlike you. Unless you want to tell me what did I say wrong? If Lightning is the only element that can use vibrarions to increase penetration immensely and get past the solid rock of earth techniques, isn't that literally what yiu call a weakness? If you are gonna say I am making stuff up, actually try and explain what Kakashi means by it being "weak", all you've provided is a line without context.

@Noodle I feel yiu didn't even understand my point... Madara after ressurecting was already stronger than Madara in his prime, because Madara never had Hashirama cells until his the end of his last battle with Hashirama. So how about you stop being dishonest and read what I sam saying instead of twisting my meaning? Kakazu would need to be massively downgraded by the Edo to be defeated by the people that defeated him, and you debunked nothing as that's not how this site works. We have no reason to believe the jonins are anyone special so they scale to run of the mill jounins, who someone like Kakazu should by all means kick to the ground without effort. I dont care that Edo are weaker, I said it myself, but they need to be far weaker for Kakazu to downgrade so much, and Madara directly shows that's not the case. He's close to his prime, and the only reason he's so overpowering after reviving is that he gets boosted even further by Sage chakra. Nothing, literally nothing, backs up Kakazu being so weakened he got killed by those people, and even when he was alive he got killed by matched by people not High 6-C. Your only proof is a battle that wasn't even shown fully, shaky evidence at best and clewrly not consistent. It's that simple.
 
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