Kaguya ETSO downgrade

[Reio35]

Except, thats exactly what im doing for one. We have at least 1 or 2 of these dimensions with a confirmed set size. Stellar via having a star and such within them.

And if 2 of them are confirmed to be that size, then the likelihood of the other dimensions, which are exactly the same as said 2, being that big is more likely than any other size. Especially since we do not see all of them.

For one, this "upgrade" isn't even an upgrade since its not something she directly scales to either way you slice it.

And second, that is a false equivalency. I dunno about whatever other cases those verses have to face, but we have an actual basis for why those dimensions would be at the sizes they're set at here. Arguing otherwise rises to a higher level of speculation that has no basis. You don't have any basis to argue the other dimensions would be any smaller than the ones we are able to view and get sizes from.

"Owned" is not the specific word used. Don't put words in my mouth.

The statement is that they are HER dimensions. Which implies she created them.

It does. If she has dominion of them, that supports the implication that she created them. Since, you know, you can manipulate what you create.

And a "small section" is an understatement. The actual claim is that she merged with nature:

Creating a dimension =/= you are unaffected by contents of said dimension.

It isn't when its done with something she doesn't directly scale to, her ETSB.

Her in the gravity dimension was completely out of her control.

And like i said earlier claiming something is yours does not mean you created it. I could say house or phone is mine but it does not mean i made it. Manipulating a small part of the environment doesn't mean she created it. Kabuto for example has a jutsu were he can manipulate the environment this could be something similar

Not to mention in the anime kinshiki calls Naruto's planet kaguya's even tho she didn't make it. Being able to merge with a small part of nature does not mean the whole dimension. If that was that was the case they would have to destroy all the dimension to kill her. The fact that these dimensions are still around after she died also proves shes not merged.

Extraordinary Claims require Evidence. To say she made entire stars ect would need a lot more evidence.

Example:Aizen claims hes in higher dimension. Hes shown some feats of manipulating space-time a 4D construct. Does that mean aizen is 4D. Simple answer is no. Their is more evidence needed

 

[Reio35]

Your entire argument is weird asf.
So she was stated to own the dimension, she can merge with the said dimensions, she can control the said dimensions, she can fuse her dimensions together and she has been stated and shown to have the ability to create and destroy the said dimensions but your own messed up argument is that she didnt create them for unknown reasons that u can't provide?

If she had full control and could merge with these dimensions she would not need ETSO just to destroy and recreate a planet. As i pointed out before saying something is yours does not intel creation. Their is no need to upgraded someone off a ambiguous claim that has no hard evidence backing it.

-Manipulations a small parts of the environment

-Made an ambiguous claim saying it's hers

Vs

-Not being able to manipulate parts of the gravity dimension

-Needs ETSO just to manipulate the whole planet let alone the dimension. Which is also confirmed by the data book

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Not being able to manipulate parts of the gravity dimension

-Needs ETSO just to manipulate the whole planet let alone the dimension. Which is also confirmed by the data book

Reio, you do realize that she's only High 4-C with the ETSB, right?
Like that's the whole point of giving her a separate rating in the first place lol.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If she had full control and could merge with these dimensions she would not need ETSO just to destroy and recreate a planet. As i pointed out before saying something is yours does not intel creation. Their is no need to upgraded someone off a ambiguous claim that has no hard evidence backing it.

-Manipulations a small parts of the environment

-Made an ambiguous claim saying it's hers

Vs

-Not being able to manipulate parts of the gravity dimension

-Needs ETSO just to manipulate the whole planet let alone the dimension. Which is also confirmed by the data book

Hence why her rating is through ETSO, so what exactly are you saying??
Its 4C with ETSO not her AP

 

[Reio35]

Reio, you do realize that she's only High 4-C with the ETSB, right?
Like that's the whole point of giving her a separate rating in the first place lol.

I know this. My point is ETSO is not star level. It doesn't matter if it's not her power

Even assuming ETSO made these other dimensions is pure head cannon

 

[GTsek]

Kukui has already said everything that could be said here. This should be finalized as it has been agreed to remove the destruction of the justification.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I’m not even going to bother with the false Aizen example but at this point, literally no one agrees w/ Reio and things are getting circular here.

The threads finished.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

So, Kaguya becomes exclusively 5-C, but her range remains the same, ye?

 

[Reio35]

@Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack @Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando @Abstractions @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Dino_Ranger_Black @Antoniofer @Gemmysaur @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Schnee_One @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @KGiffoni @Jasonsith

Thoughts

 

[DaReaperMan]

@Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack @Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando @Abstractions @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Dino_Ranger_Black @Antoniofer @Gemmysaur @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Schnee_One @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @KGiffoni @Jasonsith

Thoughts

You can't ping people as non-staff

 

[GTsek]

Her remains High 4-C because her created the dimensions, we will only remove the "destruction" from the justification, because isn't possible to quantify EE.

 

[Slacjow]

Her in the gravity dimension was completely out of her control.

That's false, Kaguya isn't immune to the effects of her world, like Ice or Gravity, she can control them.

Regardless, TSB deals blunt damage to those who resist EE, either quantify the blunt damage that TSB can deal or give her a far higher rating with it.

 

[GTsek]

@Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack @Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando @Abstractions @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou @Dino_Ranger_Black @Antoniofer @Gemmysaur @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Schnee_One @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva @Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @KGiffoni @Jasonsith

Thoughts

Wow, he even ping those who are no longer on the forum

 

[Reio35]

That's false, Kaguya isn't immune to the effects of her world, like Ice or Gravity, she can control them.

Regardless, TSB deals blunt damage to those who resist EE, either quantify the blunt damage that TSB can deal or give her a far higher rating with it.

If you created something you should be able to control.

 

[Purgy]

Regardless, TSB deals blunt damage to those who resist EE, either quantify the blunt damage that TSB can deal or give her a far higher rating with it.

It's impossible to quantify because it has no feats, any destruction feat of ETSB can just be attributed to EE.

At best, you could somehow scale it above Naruto/Sasuke's durability due to it being implied that ETSB would kill them even though they're immune to its effects, but that would be pointless because Kaguya already scales above them.

 

[Reio35]

Wow, he even ping those who are no longer on the forum

It's just random link i copied

 

[KingTempest]

Now why would you just tag half the wiki's staff

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's impossible to quantify because it has no feats, any destruction feat of ETSB can just be attributed to EE.

At best, you could somehow scale it above Naruto/Sasuke's durability due to it being implied that ETSB would kill them even though they're immune to its effects, but that would be pointless because Kaguya already scales above them.

TBF you could always say "High 4-C via EE" since ive been told we can give a rating for EE thats used offensively like this.

Besides which, destroying a space-time generally brings about the same effect.

 

[Reio35]

Now why would you just tag half the wiki's staff

My bad didn't know you couldn't do that

 

[PrinceofPein]

TBF you could always say "High 4-C via EE" since ive been told we can give a rating for EE thats used offensively like this.

Besides which, destroying a space-time generally brings about the same effect.

I agree with this

 

[The_Alxhemist]

If you created something you should be able to control.

Which she literally did

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im also liking how one very important blatant piece of evidence is also the most overlooked one here.

Kaguya re-creating a dimension with ETSB literally proves she has dimensional creation to begin with. Which makes it even more reasonable to say she created these worlds when the very technique for this rating shows he has the capabilities to do so.

 

[Planck69]

After reading through this, I agree with Kukui's take.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Kukui is making sense to me.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Im also liking how one very important blatant piece of evidence is also the most overlooked one here.

Kaguya re-creating a dimension with ETSB literally proves she has dimensional creation to begin with. Which makes it even more reasonable to say she created these worlds when the very technique for this rating shows he has the capabilities to do so.

Agreed.

 

[Reio35]

Im also liking how one very important blatant piece of evidence is also the most overlooked one here.

Kaguya re-creating a dimension with ETSB literally proves she has dimensional creation to begin with. Which makes it even more reasonable to say she created these worlds when the very technique for this rating shows he has the capabilities to do so.

Your still making a major assumption saying. Just because she can destroy planet size dimension does not justify her being able to destroy a star size one. For some to get star level they must show they can create or destroy a star not to be assumed they can.

It's also stated the truth seeker orb she produced was maximized. Meaning that's the biggest one she can make which can destroy planet

Further proving my point the juubi itself has enough chakra to be compared to a small planet. Her being much stronger than the juubi can put her around the same level which is planet. So it would make sense ETSO would be at most planet level considering it uses shinobi chakra and ten tails. Assuming someone can go from planet to star is completely illogical. That's over a 1 million× difference.

 

[GTsek]

Your still making a major assumption saying. Just because she can destroy planet size dimension does not justify her being able to destroy a star size one. For some to get star level they must show they can create or destroy a star not to be assumed they can.

It's also stated the truth seeker orb she produced was maximized. Meaning that's the biggest one she can make which can destroy planet

Further proving my point the juubi itself has enough chakra to be compared to a small planet. Her being much stronger than the juubi can put her around the same level which is planet. So it would make sense ETSO would be at most planet level considering it uses shinobi chakra and ten tails. Assuming someone can go from planet to star is completely illogical. That's over a 1 million× difference.

This scan is not accepted for scaling here.

 

[GTsek]

"Can destroy the world", the word world has more than one meaning, you are ignoring the context and forcing your misinterpretation of the word, you are implying that world means planet and nothing else. But the whole context of the scene was that it would expand and destroy everything, destroying only the planet was useless, Naruto can survive in space but even so all context was that Gudoudama would destroy everyone.

Absolutely no one agrees with Reio here, this is getting circular, most have already agreed to just remove the "destruction" of the AP justification,including 2 staff members

 

[WrongIdea21]

This scan is not accepted for scaling here.

Why not?

 

[GTsek]

Why not?

I've seen justifications here that having the energy of a planet does not mean having the AP / Tier planet. Juubi is only continental here.

 

[KingTempest]

This scan isn't accepted. It's a blatant simile.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I've seen justifications here that having the energy of a planet does not mean having the AP / Tier planet. Juubi is only continental here.

ok then, but Have a Lot Chakra Means Higher AP in this verse, isn't?

 

[KingTempest]

ok then, but Have a Lot Chakra Means Higher AP in this verse, isn't?

No, or else Kisame would be a god tier

 

[WrongIdea21]

No, or else Kisame would be a god tier

if so, i understand now, Thanks.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Your still making a major assumption saying. Just because she can destroy planet size dimension does not justify her being able to destroy a star size one. For some to get star level they must show they can create or destroy a star not to be assumed they can.

It's also stated the truth seeker orb she produced was maximized.

Please bring the scan of this statement not like it means anything but bring that scan

Meaning that's the biggest one she can make which can destroy planet

Further proving my point the juubi itself has enough chakra to be compared to a small planet. Her being much stronger than the juubi can put her around the same level which is planet. So it would make sense ETSO would be at most planet level considering it uses shinobi chakra and ten tails. Assuming someone can go from planet to star is completely illogical. That's over a 1 million× difference.

Except it wasn't her AP but a hax, we have mountain level characters with outerversal hax

You literally sent scans that says she can reshape the world/universe(Japanese kanji) but somehow still arguing
Very funny

Anyway u need some rest, she was shown to be able to create and destroy her dimensions two which have a star


Since majority disagree can't what kukui for life proposed be applied?

 

[PrinceofPein]

else Kisame would be a god tier

Doubt, most of the Bijuu level chakra is wank, except hashirama of course

 

[KingTempest]

Doubt, most of the Bijuu level chakra is wank, except hashirama of course

It's not wank, it's scaling people don't like.

 

[Reio35]

Please bring the scan of this statement not like it means anything but bring that scan

I'll just quote it for you

High 4-C: Large Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy a large star.
Has not demonstrated any of this.

Except it wasn't her AP but a hax, we have mountain level characters with outerversal hax

Doesn't matter this hax is not large star it's only shown capable of destroying a planet size realm.

You literally sent scans that says she can reshape the world/universe(Japanese kanji) but somehow still arguing
Very funny

Strawman. Sekia can only mean world/planet or universe. This dimension is not shown to be universal only planet

Anyway u need some rest, she was shown to be able to create and destroy her dimensions two which have a star

It only showed one which was planet size. It's also stated the one she was going to use to destroy her dimension was the biggest one she can make. So that makes her ETSO max planet size.

Since majority disagree can't what kukui for life proposed be applied?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Let's go over what we know about the Core Dimension, shall we?

1. The Core Dimension is very large with no definitive size.
2. However, the Core Dimension contains a planet with a breathable atmosphere.
3. As per the Colour Edition, this atmosphere also paints a blue sky, which is possible if there was a star.
4. There is natural light in the Core Dimension, which requires a star to provide.

The Core Dimension has both a planet and a star. And, creating or destroying a dimension with a planet and a star is High 4-C. It's as simple as that.

 

[Reio35]

Let's go over what we know about the Core Dimension, shall we?

1. The Core Dimension is very large with no definitive size.
2. However, the Core Dimension contains a planet with a breathable atmosphere.
3. As per the Colour Edition, this atmosphere also paints a blue sky, which is possible if there was a star.

Could just be esthetic or part of the dimensions design. Off course the author isn't going put them in a dimension with no light doesn't automatically mean the light is from a star. Their is many other factors that could be at play here. Add to the fact the data book says it is going to destroy the world/planet

1. There is natural light in the Core Dimension, which requires a star to provide.

Never stated to be a natural light source

The Core Dimension has both a planet and a star. And, creating or destroying a dimension with a planet and a star is High 4-C. It's as simple as that.