Kagutsuchi vs Lavos - Time Devourer

[FateAlbane]

On second thought, YHVH remembers that Kagutsuchi is the employee and cannot tell him what to do. So Kagutsuchi has to stop Lavos from eating those universes like delicious Icecream or Plum Pudding.

Can Kagutsuchi stop Lavos from eating all that stuff, or will Lavos leave Kagutsuchi broke, without ever paying for its deeds?

Rules: Speed equalized for good measure. Time Devourer Lavos vs Kagutsuchi. Who wins and why?


He even brought his son to eat spacetime icecream for free. (Despite the Pic, it's the 2-A thing.)


Stop right there, Fiend! Not necessarily the fiends we have here but you get my meaning.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Methinks that the Discoball Wins.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

All I will say is that Lavos is stronger in pure AP (not that it matters)

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Cal

Time Devourer seems like baseline 2-A, as the feat of being "stronger than the Dream Devourer" is weird grounds for At least 2-A when the Dream Devourer is "possibly 2-A".

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

2-A, possibly at least 2-A is redundant af.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That still means that the Time Devourer is only possibly above baseline 2-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are implications that One Vortex World = Buddhist Triloka Cosmology. Alternatively, Kagutsuchi controls infinite universes across all of time, with each universe having an infinite cycle of birth, destruction and rebirth. All of his Multiverse faded with him.

Kagutsuchi can also erase you from existence.

http://i.imgur.com/h00BLTf.png

 

[FateAlbane]

DD could alread possibly (<<keyword) end all of existence.

I don't know if TD is stronger, but from what I know of SMT he shouldn't be that far from Kagutsuchi (be it for better or worse) since both have feats relating to endless universes/timelines. Kagutsuchi administrates infinite universes (I'm imagining timelines here) and they all die with him. Lavos on his end can eat infinite timelines while also residing in a place disconnected from/beyond space and time, IIRC.

I personally choose Kagutsuchi out of all the other "Stomps 2-As who stomps 2-As who stomps 2-As" SMT characters with that in mind.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Fate

Kagutsuchi has Avatars in each universe out of his infinite ones, and each of these Avatars are 2-B by scaling.

"In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places."
You only fight the Real Kagutsuchi in the True Demon Route.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Matt I think TD has alternate versions of itself across timelines and that's where the whole "Use the Chrono Cross to kill it and merge time and space into a single thing/timeline or it's useless". But it has been literally ages since I last played Chrono Cross. Take my word on this with a few grains of salt.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are 2-As weaker than Kagutsuchi in SMT, btw, like Fake YHVH who is created by the combined power o Michael, Uriel and Raphael.

 

[FateAlbane]

But wouldn't Fake YHVH say "blah" and kill Lavos? *thinking* Or am I getting the wrong one here?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Fake YHVH doesn't use Voice of God, but it is >>> Michael.

 

[FateAlbane]

Ok, I'll change it to Fake YHVH in that case.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Why?

 

[FateAlbane]

I thought you said it would be a better opponent!

• kills self*

Ok, I'll put Kagutsuchi back!

 

[FateAlbane]

Done. No more change of challengers.

Kagutsuchi: 1 (MatthewSchroeder)

Time Devourer: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Zianmoon2]

Giving it to Japanese Disco Baal. Mid-Godly Regen, Almighty attacks. Definitely closer than pretty much all of the SMT vs Some 2-A not from Digimon fights though.

 

[FateAlbane]

Kagutsuchi: 2 (MatthewSchroeder, Zianmoon2)

Time Devourer: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[FateAlbane]

Just one question: I played Nocturne back in the day, but what feat gave Kagutsuchi Mid-Godly regen? Didn't he die for realz, taking all the timelines/universes along with him in the TDE (not questioning him winning or anything, just confused on this one since Hitoshura kinda has a talk with Lucifer by the end of it speaking of how Creation is no longer possible, what with him being destroyed and all)?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

All demons have Mid-Godly Regen. Thre main theme of Shin Megami Tensei is the infinite cycle of Reincarnation across all of creation, and the war between Law and Chaos being endless. Demons are described as "eternal beings", and originate from a realm outside of past, present, and future.

Demons technically cannot ever die as long as humans across the Multiverse continue to live, but as proven by the end of Nocturne... Even if all of the multiverse is destroyed in past, present and future, the demons STILL remain.

Sure, Kagutsuchi died in the True Demon Ending, but by Strange Journey the Multiverse is back once more, and the cycle continues.

 

[FateAlbane]

So Kagutsuchi's happens overtime if it does get to the point of him dying entirely? -That's what got me confused since guys like Krishna (who granted, is way above him) were instantly back even after being rekt by Godslayer Flynn/Nanashi in Apocalypse.

Nonetheless, not questioning anything. Just got myself a little lost in my own SMT knowledge.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's hard to say. Krishna did return, yes, and Lucifer explains in SMT 2 that he can't be killed, you only kill him "in a moment".

 

[Zianmoon2]

I have a question about the reliant immortality Demons have in SMT. In order to get past that, would you have to kill all humans in the multiverse the demon is in, or all of the SMT multiverses?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Zian

Other multiverses weren't even established back in Nocturne, but the multiverse going boom didn't kill the demons.

 

[FateAlbane]

Bump.

 

[Kaltias]

Does this means that Kagutsuchi vs Madoka is next?

But yeah, Kagutsuchi wins. It has the AoE necessary to affect the whole multiverse, and more than enough defensive and offensive hax to survive while tearing its way trough Lavos's replacements.

 

[FateAlbane]

It's almost as if I'm making a tournament of 2-As or something.

Kagutsuchi: 3 (MatthewSchroeder, Zianmoon2, Kaltias)

Time Devourer: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Kagutsuchi via reasons above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm gonna Devil's Advocate today and say Lavos. Don't really see Almighty attacks tearing through Lavos, and if they do, never ending replacements. What defense does Disco Stew have to BFR? I'm actually asking, as I can't check his profile while typing this.

 

[FateAlbane]

While speed is equalized, Disco Ball is Omnipresent and has Teleportation as well as existing across the entirety of a 2-A structure, so BFRing him anywhere like the End of Time probably won't work since it exists across all points in time anyways, even if we don't factor the teleportation.

Not saying anyone wins or loses. Just pointing out that BFR is probably a non-factor.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

BFR's won't work for the reasons Fate pointed out.

Almighty attacks bypass any defenses in SMT. The only thing that can shield against them is Anti-Almighty barriers, which are incredibly rare. Any other type of resistance, immunity, shields, or reflection spells... They pierce right through.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I meant they wouldn't one-shot. Not that they wouldn't hit. They always hit. Always.

 

[FateAlbane]

Kagutsuchi: 4 (MatthewSchroeder, Zianmoon2, Kaltias, Bre8k)

Time Devourer: 1 (The real cal howard)

Inconclusive: 0