Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Issues.

[Slacjow]

Right now characters scale to MHS+ because of wrong implementation it on the profiles. The speed part of the profile is contradictory and I think the issue lies within the fact that a CRT wasn't created for this upgrade (or I just can't find it). This is what Nanami's profile states:

Massively Hypersonic+ reactions (Capable of consciously performing the Black Flash, which requires being able to perceive cursed energy being applied at 0.000001 seconds of a physical hit)

It says you have to be able to "perceive" cursed energy but for some reason it's applied as a Reaction feat.
This is Black Flash, it says when the "Cursed Energy Impact" is applied within 0.000001 seconds of a physical hit BF occurs.
So, what it says is basically you need to apply Cursed Energy within that timeframe as soon as you hit your target. This is already definitely not a Reaction Feat because you don't perform any movement within 0.000001s, you just apply Cursed Energy.
The question is, should this be even considered a legitimate perception feat if a character performs a single operation within such a low timeframe?

Now about High Hypersonic feat, it's a feat of catching a bullet, the character only made a single hand movement for this, I don't think that people should overall scale to it, unless they blitzed her from a considerable distance.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Also, "There is not a single Jujutsu Sorcerer who can use [Black Flash] at will".

 

[Slacjow]

Bump.

 

[Arkenis]

Eh I mostly agree, but the fact these characters can flow the curse energy to the hit would be a form of thought process or scale their flow of curse energy to that speed. And also multiple characters scale above maki within that arc of her reacting to the bullet.

Example of characters who scale to or above her

Yuji (stated by hanami that he's faster than maki)
Todo (scales to yuji)
Megumi (scales to Maki)
Hanami (scales above Maki)
Kamo (should scale to or above Megumi)
Naobito (scales above every sorcerer besides gojo)
Nanami(scales above maki)
Gojo (above naobito)
Toji (above maki)

probably missing others.

But they should all get at least hhs+

 

[Slacjow]

Scaling from Maki's feat is fine.
The best you can get from BF is perception.

 

[Arkenis]

hmm but if we agree their perception is at 0.000001s then people who can do bf and get blitzed shouldnt that be mhs?

 

[Slacjow]

No, applying cursed energy in such a low timeframe won't make someone constantly MHS+ in perception, and also we can't give people MHS+ speed just because of a single statement.

 

[Arkenis]

Do we not give people speed ratings based off of a feat? If someone can perceive a lightning strike coming at them we give them perception relative to that. Also I didn't say mhs+, just low end mhs would be fine for the god tiers like gojo and sukuna and naobito and maybe geto.

 

[Slacjow]

Do we not give people speed ratings based off of a feat?

Everything depends on a context. In BF case, no. It doesn't qualify as a legit constant perception feat.

 

[Valorrr]

It depends on how you look at things, the characters are definitely able to perceive the light but I do not think we can know how long it is there for.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Considering it's stated more than once no one can do BF at will not even Gojo, they shouldn't scale to it. The Maki calc is a bit iffy since we discussed using a more accurate bullet speed for that plus it would probably scale more so to her reaction time since if she was moving that fast constantly Mai wouldn't have thought she had a chance.

 

[Slacjow]

It's certainly a reaction only feat.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Would no one scale to it?

 

[Slacjow]

Pretty much everyone relative to her in speed.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

What does "no Jujutsu Sorcerer is capable of using it at will" mean?
If it means that the ones who are capable of using Black Flash have a high chance of failure if they attempt it, it would still probably scale to reactions.

In the previous chapter, Mai told Momo "Don't worry, it's a rubber bullet" after shooting Nobara in the head. Implying that using real bullets would be dangerous.
Is Mai someone who doesn't care if her sister is killed as long as she wins? If not, then we should assume it is a rubber bullet.

 

[Slacjow]

What does "no Jujutsu Sorcerer is capable of using it at will" mean?
If it means that the ones who are capable of using Black Flash have a high chance of failure if they attempt it, it would still probably scale to reactions.

Black Flash isn't a reaction feat, I think I made it clear already.

In the previous chapter, Mai told Momo "Don't worry, it's a rubber bullet" after shooting Nobara in the head. Implying that using real bullets would be dangerous.
Is Mai someone who doesn't care if her sister is killed as long as she wins? If not, then we should assume it is a rubber bullet.

Look, Nobara didn't know about Mai's ability to create a bullet, she exhausted her 6 rounds convincing Nobara that she doesn't have more bullets but then she created a real one and shoot it.
Well she certainly was convinced that Mai wouldn't be able to catch that bullet, maybe she created another rubber bullet and shoot it or she didn't care if her sister died.
The composition of the last bullet wasn't specified so a default regular bullet was used.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If it means that the ones who are capable of using Black Flash have a high chance of failure if they attempt it, it would still probably scale to reactions.

It says no one can use the Black Flash at will, seemingly to imply it's not a conscious act, which I believe goes against the rules of Reactions.

Autonomous body reactions for humans can also reach as high as 40 milliseconds, but this is oftentimes inapplicable to reaction speed and shouldn't be used.

 

[Fixxed]

Itadori can't Dodge choso skill

 

[Arkenis]

what?

 

[RageComment]

I'd like to see speed revisions, it's always bothered me that Black Flash, which in canon is stated that no one can perform at will, was treated as if it was the character's speeds. It's something they do instinctively if they can do it at all. They have to get into the zone.

It is kinda like when Speedrunners doing frame perfect maneuvers are able to do them, not because they can literally perceive frame by frame, but because they are trained to their peak and have good intuition AND because there are a lot of attempts that just fail. Most cursed energy strikes do not produce Black Flash.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Late to this
But I agree with this sentiment and found the black flash justification for MHS+ Strange

Since it’s not something that can not be done at will/intentionally which is against reactions as said above

There’s also things like Choso, Geto saying conventional weapons are viable(Refering to a sniper rifle) and Jogo’s meteors that imply slower speeds than MHS

 

[Ped2018]

Late to this
But I agree with this sentiment and found the black flash justification for MHS+ Strange

Since it’s not something that can not be done at will/intentionally which is against reactions as said above

There’s also things like Choso, Geto saying conventional weapons are viable(Refering to a sniper rifle) and Jogo’s meteors that imply slower speeds than MHS

i don't think Jogo's meteor is a good example is good because even someone like Panda was able to dodge at the last moment

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

i don't think Jogo's meteor is a good example is good because even someone like Panda was able to dodge at the last moment

Ok That’s fair but you understood the point I was trying to make

 

[Arkenis]

I'm pretty sure what we see with jogo's meteor is that he creates it mid air then throw it at sukuna like he has telekinesis. so I honestly don't think there's any way to scale it's speed to other meteors.

 

[RageComment]

Without a Speed it is hard to calculate its KE though?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Late to this
But I agree with this sentiment and found the black flash justification for MHS+ Strange

Since it’s not something that can not be done at will/intentionally which is against reactions as said above

There’s also things like Choso, Geto saying conventional weapons are viable(Refering to a sniper rifle) and Jogo’s meteors that imply slower speeds than MHS

I'd say that using conventional weapons wasn't really a praise of how they're slower, but more the praise of it can hurt them. I'm not sure if that firearm is not supernatural but yeah it's a good counter support to the current MHS though.


This downgrade is certainly true though, the whole MHS thing has been very weird

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I'm pretty sure what we see with jogo's meteor is that he creates it mid air then throw it at sukuna like he has telekinesis. so I honestly don't think there's any way to scale it's speed to other meteors.

If we’re dropping it are special grades going back to 8B?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I'd say that using conventional weapons wasn't really a praise of how they're slower, but more the praise of it can hurt them. I'm not sure if that firearm is not supernatural but yeah it's a good counter support to the current MHS though.

I think the firearms are clearly amped by cursed energy or at least they should be.

However this only really says anything about AP and not speed nor is it really implied the bullets are any faster

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

If we’re dropping it are special grades going back to 8B?

Wouldn’t they scale to Gojo’s 7-C crater?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Wouldn’t they scale to Gojo’s 7-C crater?

Hanami almost died to it and he mostly avoided it.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Hanami almost died to it and he mostly avoided it.

Yeah I know that,I more so meant for the strongest special grades I wasn’t clear enough

So I guess at best it would apply to like Sukuna and maybe Jogo(if you push it)when it comes to special grades

When it comes to other characters Yuta would likely scale to it not Sure on Toji and others(Most likely not Toji since purple stomped him)

Edit:Wait, what happened to the 7-B Dagon Calc on his domain I think there was one at some point.
Couldn’t we just scale off that?

 

[Ped2018]

Couldn’t we just scale off that?

Yeah, we could, but i still don't want to drop the meteor calc just because we don't have a timeframe when the manga itself give us a lot reference to be used

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah I know that,I more so meant for the strongest special grades I wasn’t clear enough

So I guess at best it would apply to like Sukuna and maybe Jogo(if you push it)when it comes to special grades

When it comes to other characters Yuta would likely scale to it not Sure on Toji and others(Most likely not Toji since purple stomped him)

Edit:Wait, what happened to the 7-B Dagon Calc on his domain I think there was one at some point.
Couldn’t we just scale off that?

They would t scale though since Gojo is far above them.

 

[Arkenis]

I went over this before, I think we should be scaling these characters to their Domains since it takes their own energy to create, it is the literal creation of a physical space, if we are going to scale Jogo to creating his meteor which is what he did then I honestly don't see why domains aren't also treated similarly. There's already a calc for Dagon's domain which gets him to city lvl or island lvl. Jogo's creates volcanos.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

They don’t put the same power into normal attacks as they do with domains. It’s like saying Kakashi scales to his Raikiri in part 1 since it’s a third of his chakra in one attack.

Do we also calc Gojo’s domain?

 

[Arkenis]

It's still part of their arsenal isn't it? We're still gonna scale Jogo's ap to his meteor even though he created it with his curse energy?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

It would and should be treated like special techniques are on this wiki, that is they get a higher or their own rating. It’s pretty darn obvious the energy put in a normal attack isn’t on the same level as a domain since someone like Mahito can use techniques continually in battle but his domain can only be done once.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

It would and should be treated like special techniques are on this wiki, that is they get a higher or their own rating. It’s pretty darn obvious the energy put in a normal attack isn’t on the same level as a domain since someone like Mahito can use techniques continually in battle but his domain can only be done once.

So your suggesting if we keep the meteor and the dagon calc is used for scaling the wording would be like

For example jogo

7-B, Higher with Maximum Meteor, even higher With domain expansion?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

They would t scale though since Gojo is far above them.

Sukuna probably would depending on how you interpret Gojo saying that he’d Mid high diff a 20 finger Sukuna
Since he’s currently at 15

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So your suggesting if we keep the meteor and the dagon calc is used for scaling the wording would be like

For example jogo

7-B, Higher with Maximum Meteor, even higher With domain expansion?

Yeah that’s how it would be.