Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Issue.

[Slacjow]

So, the recent chapter gave us a pretty interesting statement.
It says that he surpassed the sub-sonic speed.
So, here is the issue, I believe that by surpassing sub-sonic speed Naoya should be around 0.1 to 0.9 mach.
There's also another opinion, if Naoya surpassed the sub-sonic speed then it means his speed can be as fast as Hypersonic or Supersonic.
Which I believe doesn't make sense in the slightest, if the author wanted the character to be supersonic or hypersonic he would've phrased the statement accordingly, for example "He exceeded the speed of sound".

I believe we should take the statement and not make fan calculations that go directly against statements or interpret statements in the "best" way possible.
So, to avoid any further pointless and circular debating, let's settle this here.

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

DOWNPLAYER, REPORTED AND BANNED.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I’ll come to this thread later and give more in depth thoughts since I gotta study although shouldn’t this be in content revision?

If we go with this it gets rid of the nonsensical Massively Hypersonic Maki/High hypersonic for Goodwill event arc which I agree with but affects every profile.

(I still don’t understand why we scale off Black flash for speed btw when Gojo and Sukuna have decent speed feats)

When I come back I also wanna come back with a calculation for Todo’s reaction time vs Hanami or Casual Naoya’s blitz of Choso and Yuji
To do a few more consistency checks
Since I got Subsonic recently for calcs on Yuki(Albeit her Calc is downplayed) and Uraume

Minor thing to end off exceeding subsonic = above Mach 0.9
Subsonic is anything below the speed of sound (even 2m/s is subsonic) to surpass subsonic in general you must be above Mach 0.9 otherwise you didn’t actually surpass the term.
It’s a transonic statement not Subsonic+
It doesn’t change your argument much but this should be noted

 

[Slacjow]

Minor thing to end off exceeding subsonic = above Mach 0.9
Subsonic is anything below the speed of sound (even 2m/s is subsonic) to surpass subsonic in general you must be above Mach 0.9 otherwise you didn’t actually surpass the term.
It’s a transonic statement not Subsonic+
It doesn’t change your argument much but this should be noted

The statement was referring to him exceeding Sub-Sonic speed, Mach 1 is the speed of sound, if he was the speed of sound, Gege would've said "He reached the speed of sound" instead he chose "he exceeded sub-sonic speed" meaning he is still in 0.1 to 0.9 range.

I’ll come to this thread later and give more in depth thoughts since I gotta study although shouldn’t this be in content revision?

I am not sure, I don't think we are revising anything in this thread, it's more about statement interpretation.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

There is something you'all are missing...
Projection Sorcery works by splitting a second into 24 sections (24 FPS), and then pre-programming your body to complete 24 movements for each of the 24 frames, as long as the movements do not significantly violate the laws of physics and trajectory. This can be used to accelerate faster than normal between frames, and to violate the laws of physics to some extent to reach the next waypoint/frame.
I see no less than 15 movements in the calculated panel, meaning that exactly [15/24 = 0.625 s] has passed to do these movements. Every tiny movement you see took exactly [1/24 = 0.04167 s].
If anything the panel is a massive subsonic anti-feat.

Also Naoya was only able to 'surpass subsonic speed' after using the projection trick to continously build up his speed unnaturally, and he is among the fastest even at base. Meaning that current Maki and everyone slower did not surpass subsonic speed.
In the panel after Maki says that Naoya surpassed subsonic speed he is seen with a mach cone (drawn similar to the one that forms in front of Piercing Blood); so Maki getting blitzed earlier was before Naoya reached this transonic speed.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Oh bruh, this is just "Questions and Answers

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I will just say, no one should consider the statement "Hur dur subsonic". In the same chapter it is said that energy is mass and acceleration. Using this same sentence let's do a simple calculation

Spoiler

This pixelscale sucks, it is only an approximate result

Red Line = 121pxl | 1.7
Blue Line = 295pxl | 4.14462809917

Red Line = 475pxl | 0.55202120609
Green Line = 389pxl | 0.45207631403
Volume = 3.0979756940643m^3 or 3097975.69406cm^3
V. Fragmenation = 213760322.89 Joules

Cool, now let's find out how fast Maki was thrown

Spoiler

213760322.89 = (X^2*70)/2
X^2 = (213760322.89/70)*2
X^2 = 6107437.79686
X = √6107437.79686
X = 2471.3230863m/s

Nice, hypersonic. Now the speed of Naoy's kick

Spoiler

I = (Qf - Qi)
Speed = 2471.3230863m/s
Weight = 70Kg
I = (2471.3230863*70) - (0)
I = 172992.616041kg.m/s

Weight of leg = 11.69
Q = mv
172992.616041 = 11.69*v
11.69v = 172992.616041
v = 14798.3418341m/s

High Hypersonic.

I think that if people stop being dishonest everything will be better. There are more than 4 calculations above the speed of sound

 

[M3X_2.0]

Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.

KE Page.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

. In the same chapter it is said that energy is mass and acceleration

 

[M3X_2.0]

It doesn't matter. It's not allowed. It's saying that energy is mass and acceleration, allusion to the Force formula or the KE formula.

It simply can't be used, that statement means nothing.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I will just say, no one should consider the statement "Hur dur subsonic". In the same chapter it is said that energy is mass and acceleration. Using this same sentence let's do a simple calculation

Spoiler

This pixelscale sucks, it is only an approximate result

Red Line = 121pxl | 1.7
Blue Line = 295pxl | 4.14462809917

Red Line = 475pxl | 0.55202120609
Green Line = 389pxl | 0.45207631403
Volume = 3.0979756940643m^3 or 3097975.69406cm^3
V. Fragmenation = 213760322.89 Joules

Cool, now let's find out how fast Maki was thrown

Spoiler

213760322.89 = (X^2*70)/2
X^2 = (213760322.89/70)*2
X^2 = 6107437.79686
X = √6107437.79686
X = 2471.3230863m/s

Nice, hypersonic. Now the speed of Naoy's kick

Spoiler

I = (Qf - Qi)
Speed = 2471.3230863m/s
Weight = 70Kg
I = (2471.3230863*70) - (0)
I = 172992.616041kg.m/s

Weight of leg = 11.69
Q = mv
172992.616041 = 11.69*v
11.69v = 172992.616041
v = 14798.3418341m/s

High Hypersonic.

I think that if people stop being dishonest everything will be better. There are more than 4 calculations above the speed of sound

TThis woud be nice and all except calculations from fans would always be head canon and just fans trying to find what was done

i mean this was what a staff once told me when i first join here

 

[Slacjow]

I will just say, no one should consider the statement "Hur dur subsonic". In the same chapter it is said that energy is mass and acceleration. Using this same sentence let's do a simple calculation

Spoiler

This pixelscale sucks, it is only an approximate result

Red Line = 121pxl | 1.7
Blue Line = 295pxl | 4.14462809917

Red Line = 475pxl | 0.55202120609
Green Line = 389pxl | 0.45207631403
Volume = 3.0979756940643m^3 or 3097975.69406cm^3
V. Fragmenation = 213760322.89 Joules

Cool, now let's find out how fast Maki was thrown

Spoiler

213760322.89 = (X^2*70)/2
X^2 = (213760322.89/70)*2
X^2 = 6107437.79686
X = √6107437.79686
X = 2471.3230863m/s

Nice, hypersonic. Now the speed of Naoy's kick

Spoiler

I = (Qf - Qi)
Speed = 2471.3230863m/s
Weight = 70Kg
I = (2471.3230863*70) - (0)
I = 172992.616041kg.m/s

Weight of leg = 11.69
Q = mv
172992.616041 = 11.69*v
11.69v = 172992.616041
v = 14798.3418341m/s

High Hypersonic.

I think that if people stop being dishonest everything will be better. There are more than 4 calculations above the speed of sound

Dude, just stop.
Your headcanon fan calculations are irrelevant, there's a clear cut statement that puts Naoya at around Sub-Sonic+. You can't just go ahead and make a calc on a feat that already has stated speed in the manga itself.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

headcanon calculations

Hye...You won't change your mind with anything

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

The statement was referring to him exceeding Sub-Sonic speed, Mach 1 is the speed of sound, if he was the speed of sound, Gege would've said "He reached the speed of sound" instead he chose "he exceeded sub-sonic speed" meaning he is still in 0.1 to 0.9 range.

That goes against the english dictionary. I understand wanting to go with authorial intent but it doesn't overwrite what a word or a phrase should mean
You cant exeed subsonic if you are Mach 0.1-Mach 0.9 if you are in that range you are subsonic as Subsonic is anything below speed of sound, you didnt exceed anything.
Since Subsonic doesn’t have a minimum requirement exceeding can’t be phrased as entering that speed range either.
I just say the statement is phrased weirdly, that is all.
Also we are all glossing over the "Already" in the exceeded statement

There is something you'all are missing...
Projection Sorcery works by splitting a second into 24 sections (24 FPS), and then pre-programming your body to complete 24 movements for each of the 24 frames, as long as the movements do not significantly violate the laws of physics and trajectory. This can be used to accelerate faster than normal between frames, and to violate the laws of physics to some extent to reach the next waypoint/frame.
I see no less than 15 movements in the calculated panel, meaning that exactly [15/24 = 0.625 s] has passed to do these movements. Every tiny movement you see took exactly [1/24 = 0.04167 s].
If anything the panel is a massive subsonic anti-feat.

In the panel after Maki says that Naoya surpassed subsonic speed he is seen with a mach cone (drawn similar to the one that forms in front of Piercing Blood); so Maki getting blitzed earlier was before Naoya reached this transonic speed.

I agree with the 1/24 fps being an Anti feat we should use that in Naoya related speed calculations it should nerf most of his feats to like Subsonic

Although remember Mach/vapor cones is above mach 1 you cant have vapor cones at equal to the speed of sound

Now responding overall to this I believe Authorial intent should be considered and we must find how consistent how everything is calc statement or simple on panel feats

Anti feats saying only the faster characters and god tiers are below sound
A transonic statement is used to how fast a character is accelerating with Maki earlier being slower than him
Yuji albeit was injured takes a little time to catch up to a speeding truck
1/24fps
Piercing blood is dangerous because it exceeds sound(This is the weakest of the antifeats)
Kenjaku thinks sniper rifles are good weapons against Sorcerers although he still caught it easily

Feats
Hanami's wood calculated as supersonic using the anime's timeframes
2/3 Finger Sukuna's speed calc
Panda and Kusakabe seemingly go FTE when Sukuna tells them to run from the meteor(This relies on claiming Jogo didn't just set his meteor on fire)
Fodders also seemingly going FTE
Using 0.1 seconds for Naoya going FTE for the reader he moved at Supersonic speeds
Maki cutting bullets
Sigh Maki Bullet catch
Nanami reacting to Mahito

Basically the only thing supporting above Mach 1 or nearing Mach 1 for Early series is calculation related stuff but it contradicts blatantly stated things like the 1/24fps and the transonic stuff
I am extremely neutral towards this as this seems like we could argue in a circular fashion easily arguing which outlier isnt an outlier
I feel staff opinion given the context is best imo

Random other notes: I calculated Todo's reaction time, and Piercing bloods long range speed not done with the second blog though

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

TThis woud be nice and all except calculations from fans would always be head canon and just fans trying to find what was done

Where do u think all the calcs of the wiki come from?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Why the 1/24 contradicts the clacs?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Why the 1/24 contradicts the clacs?

It is 0.04 seconds and characters get blitzed or outsped in this timeframe
Edit: And that is like Superhuman reaction time

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Superhuman reaction time

Athletic level for the characters then

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Athletic level for the characters then

I mean those are the numbers Akutami is giving us
But with the opinion on Author intent circling around here may was well slap baseline superhuman on everybody for reactions

Personally I think it’s generally inconsistent how somehow these characters get blitzed in 0.04 seconds yet proceed to react to stuff in front of their face (even without math you cannot tell me someone with 0.04 second reaction time at best could’ve reacted to Hanami’s wood spike)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The FPS ability is literally to execute a 24-second movement in a single second. No matter what your speed, from 24 seconds to 1 is a lot. There is no contradiction in this. Let's assume someone is able to punch 1000 times per second, with the FPS skill he is able to attack 24000 times in one second. I don't understand how this has any relevance to here

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The FPS ability is literally to execute a 24-second movement in a single second. No matter what your speed, from 24 seconds to 1 is a lot. There is no contradiction in this. Let's assume someone is able to punch 1000 times per second, with the FPS skill he is able to attack 24000 times in one second. I don't understand how this has any relevance to here

You completely misunderstood the ability... It isn't a timeslow where one second feels like 24 seconds or a x24 speed boost; it just guarantees that you finish 24 movements that you pre-selected (as long as they don't significantly violate the laws of physics and trajectory) within one second with each movement taking 1/24 second to execute, which allows an exploit where your body accelerates faster than normal to finish these movements.



That Choso and current Yuji and current Maki can be blitzed from moving a few meters in 1/24 second is a glaring subsonic anti-feat.

---

In general, the calculations allow a low-end Subsonic interpretation. And I think explicit statements about what the speed is makes filling the gaps through the anime redundant.

 

[PowerToScale]

I would also like to note that the statement comes from the author/narrator, not Maki and that the statement is "Who had already had already surpassed subsonic speed". "Had" past tense. Meaning that well before the statement or the attack in the moment, he had surpassed sub-sonic speeds, not in the moment of the statement or the attack. And not only that but he was getting faster as the fight went.

Not only that, Maki was able to perceive, react and counter attack Naoya as well. We see her counting each movement Naoya makes since she can't move until his 24th movement. We see her stand dead still after being tapped, only to counter attack last minute since she would not be affected by his cursed technique.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

In general, the calculations allow a low-end Subsonic interpretation. And I think explicit statements about what the speed is makes filling the gaps through the anime redundant.

I know this is still the anime but the wood calc for Hanami is very slightly above Mach 1 and if you look carefully in the scene it looks like it made a sonic boom/vapor sphere
So that's still something

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

it just guarantees that you finish 24 movements that you pre-selected within one second

Bruh

 

[azontr]

Why isn't this in Content Revision.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Because a massive revision with several calculations is being planned for Jujutsuverse. So creating a revision now is stupid. Anyway, this can be closed, this was discussed in the General Discussion thread

 

[azontr]

Oki

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Itadori blatantly dodged/blitzed piercing blood which exceeds the speed of sound, and a casual Naoya blitzed a stronger, faster version of Yuji. We have the page panel by panel where the attack was inches from his face before he reacted and moved out of the way to the point where there was the typical shonen manga 'blitz' speed lines where Yuji previously was. So saying that just because Gege didn't say Naoya was the speed of sound, but surpassing Subsonic isn't an anti feat and fits in line with a much slower Yuji reacting to a Faster than Sound piercing blood on different occasions and blitzing it once.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Why this thread revives when the speed revision is almost finished to post