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Joker vs His Mom

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If this is in the real Central Park, this isn't even a fight, it's just an execution.

Joker could potentially pull Bayo into the Metaverse, where this won't be so... one woman gank-y,but the MetaNav takes about 5 seconds to use. At which point, Bayo would have blitzed him several dozens of times over.

So, in the interest of having an actual fight... No. I refuse to believe that was anything more than a joke, one which I left myself rather blatantly open to, I will admit.

That being said...

@DatOneWeeb

Joker isn't as nimble as Bayonetta, but he's definitely no slouch either. If this fight were to start in a manner conducive to stealth, Joker could get off a free hit via Cha├«nés Hook. I don't remember if Bayo has the senses to see through that, so I'll be relying on those more knowledgeable than myself for that. If Bayonetta opens the fight in a manner inconducive to stealth, Joker could use Tumble and dodge Bayo's attack, which would leave her open to a potential counter.

What do you mean "slower"? Instantaneous is instantaneous, no matter how slowed time is. Unless time literally comes to a complete halt, Mudo, or Mamudo, since that has AoE, lands. The animations are purely stylistic. Therefore, game mechanics. Also, nothing in-verse suggests Status Ailments and Death spells are dodgable. Where are you getting that information?

Ignoring the point about going faster than Mamudo because I've already explained that as best I can, Bayo can only carry one Red Hot Shot at a time iirc, so Joker just uses Mamudo again. Her summons are a pretty significant threat, but Joker can use his own summons to shield, which should have the same durability as himself.

I'd like to see a video of this BFR if at all possible.

The MetaNav thing is invalid unless they're fighting in Mementos, so yeah. I concede defeat in that regard.

Yeah, that shouldn't have gone into that post. That was just me rambling on the internet. Very sorry about that.

I would like to make some additional points if that's alright.

1. Personas can act on their own, without the explicit go-ahead from their users. So, they should be able to protect their user if they are incapped.

2. Personas don't perceive time the same way we do, and project a field around their users that bends time and space, which is what gives Joker his Time Stop resist. This means that Personas might have resistance, if not immunity, to Time Manipulation (Alice's page states that she may travel freely through time. Since there is nothing especially unique about her as a Persona aside from being a Rank 10 Confidant Persona, which there is nothing inherently special about ability-wise, other Personas may be capable of this feat as well).

3: Regarding the point about Personas shielding their users, it was concluded in the Richter Belmont vs. Joker thread that Joker can take hits to his soul as if they were hits to his body. Personas are just a "second soul", so whichever Persona is used for this thread should have High 4-C durability as well.

All of these points mean that the Persona used should be able to hold off Bayonetta until Witch Time wears off.
 
Pretty sure we assume that the Persona characters are in a position in which they can actually use their powers.

Regardless, where does Bayo "Time haxing people who surpass time" come from?

Also, I do not remember us ever scaling Time Hax to range as we assume Time hax is Universal in range by default.
 
Aesir isn't accepted as beyond time, he's also a massive outlier in the series as established every time Bayonetta upgrades for 3A got rejected.

So her witch time isn't accepted as doing that
 
No Don't think my response was read above but she's never done that
Ever

Witch Time works on Aesir.


Aesir existing in another dimension /=/ existing outside of time. Bayonetta's Witch Time being at least equal to Aesir's, however, does mean Bayonetta gets some pretty solid potency. Dunno if it's enough to deal with that Space/Time-Warping field that gives Joker his Time Stop resist, but it's definitely worth considering.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Pretty sure we assume that the Persona characters are in a position in which they can actually use their powers.
Regardless, where does Bayo "Time haxing people who surpass time" come from?

Also, I do not remember us ever scaling Time Hax to range as we assume Time hax is Universal in range by default.
Click to expand...
I posted the image above.
 
I posted the image above.

And I posted the reply above about your image. In short, separate dimension /=/ surpassing time itself. Aesir has time stop, that's it, as far as I can tell.
 
Here at 9:10. Here at 10:00. Here at 3:25. Here at 3:40, 6:25, and 9:25 and has done it more times then those I've listed.

Takes about 1 second to grab the angel, so I think Joker escapes BFR vía reaction and speed buffs. And that is definitely BFR, thank you.
 
Smashkabab said:
Here at 9:10. Here at 10:00. Here at 3:25. Here at 3:40, 6:25, and 9:25 and has done it more times then those I've listed.
Click to expand...
Takes about 1 second to grab the angel, so I think Joker escapes BFR vía reaction and speed buffs. And that is definitely BFR, thank you.
The time it takes to grab doesn't really matter at all if he's unable to see the hands in the first place.
 
Here at 9:10. Here at 10:00. Here at 3:25. Here at 3:40, 6:25, and 9:25 and has done it more times then those I've listed. Takes about 1 second to grab the angel, so I think Joker escapes BFR vía reaction and speed buffs. And that is definitely BFR, thank you.
The time it takes to grab doesn't really matter at all if he's unable to see the hands in the first place.

The hands have invisibility?
 
Yes, they are classified as Infernal Demons who are invisible to all except other Infernal Demons, Angels, Umbra Witches, Lumen Sages, gods, and those with specially made eyewear. And Joker isn't any of the following and certainly isn't in possession of the eyewear needed.
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
Yes, they are classified as Infernal Demons who are invisible to all except other Infernal Demons, Angels, Umbra Witches, Lumen Sages, gods, and those with specially made eyewear. And Joker isn't any of the following and certainly isn't in possession of the eyewear needed.
Click to expand...
Third Eye is stated to let Joker "see what is hidden in the dark," which basically means visualizing things like footprints, scents, the importance of a seemingly mundane object, and the strength of an enemy. Could that help?
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
I don't really think so.
Click to expand...
Oh well. Win some, lose some. By the way, with Bayo's "at times cocky and sadistic" nature, how long would it take her to actually decide to use those demon hands?
 
Smashkabab said:
Crimson Shadow101 said:
I don't really think so.
Click to expand...
Oh well. Win some, lose some. By the way, with Bayo's "at times cocky and sadistic" nature, how long would it take her to actually decide to use those demon hands?
Click to expand...
Til the point where she feels she's beaten up the enemy enough, but her intellegence is high enough that she wouldn't hesitate to use it, if pressured to do so.
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
I don't really think so.
Click to expand...
Oh well. Win some, lose some. By the way, with Bayo's "at times overconfident and sadistic" nature, how long would it take her to actually decide to use those demon hands?


Sorry, quoted myself when I meant to edit.
 
Crimson Shadow101 said:
Yes, they are classified as Infernal Demons who are invisible to all except other Infernal Demons, Angels, Umbra Witches, Lumen Sages, gods, and those with specially made eyewear. And Joker isn't any of the following and certainly isn't in possession of the eyewear needed.
Click to expand...
that seems more like an in verse restriction. It be like saying no one can see persona's except people with persona's or access to metaverse. If someone has feats of peeping things invisible to most, then they should be able to view comparable things of other verses. Third eye also let's him see aura's/hidden things.
 
So, long enough for Joker to use Sleuthing Mastery to find out Bayo has no resistance to death hax, and then use said death hax? Cool.

And that would absolutely be his next move on an enemy that poses a significant threat like Bayonetta, considering the gameplay highly encouraging using weaknesses likely being a reflection of Joker's own personality.

Edit: Sorry if I'm bugging all of you, I'm just looking for a viable wincon.
 
Seeing as my doubts about Joker's wincons have seemingly been settled, I can see his winning.

Joker FRA.
 
I'm pretty sure you have a right to be cocky when your friend dies and you can just take a trip to hell to save her and walk out like nothing ever happened.
 
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