Joker vs. Cyrus

[Jinsye]

Speed is =

End-Game Joker (can change to Satanael if necessary) and Gen 7 Pokemon Team Cyrus

Cyrus already has Dialga and Palkia out

Who wins?

Joker: 0

Cyrus: 0

 

[Ionliosite]

So what can Cyrus do?

 

[Jinsye]

Summon Dialga and Palkia

 

[Solacis]

A Low 2-C vs a guy with two 2-Bs. How is this not a stomp of epic proportions?

I suppose you can argue that Joker can mindhax the moment the fight begins (his mindhax potency is leagues above the stated feat for Dialga and Palkia's resistance, much less Cyrus himself) and I guess that with speed equalized Joker can dodge their standard attacks, but the vast majority of his defensive hax doesn't work on a 2-B level unless we equalize with Persona 1 and 2, and he'll be absolutely destroyed the moment the legendaries go for their time-space hax.

If Joker pulls off his mindhax, he'll win by taking out Cyrus, but if he doesn't, he gets wrecked hard.

 

[Jinsye]

You know

Dialga and Palkia in this form are Low 2-C right? Being in a Pokeball kinda limits their power to a single timeline? If they weren't then Cyrus would be 2-B on his profile

 

[Solacis]

I checked Dialga and Palkia's profiles instead of Cyrus', my bad.

In that case, this is much more fair. Dialga and Palkia's standard time-space hax is completely resisted by Joker, and Joker can mindhax all three with little difficulty.

What are Cyrus' win-cons?

 

[Jinsye]

Dialga still retains most abilities besides stuff like Omnipresence and Higher-D Existence as a Low 2-C, so I'd assume something like aging Joker into a decrepit old man would work.

Plus completely wiping Joker from all of space and time might be enough to bypass Joker's mid-godly as his mid-godly is more standard EE then wiping them from all of time.

 

[Solacis]

Joker's mid-godly is based on coming back from being conceptually erased such that none of his actions ever occurred, so I'm thinking he comes back from that anyway. Aging would work, but it both depends on how likely Dialga is to go for it, as well as how fast it progresses his age. If it's too slow, Joker will react and negate it with Amrita Drop, since forced aging was an ailment in Persona 4, and the Amrita spells cure all ailments.

Dialga and Palkia being omnipresent just makes it easier for Joker to affect them due to not having to aim his hax. Thought and reaction speeds are still equalized, so Joker being able to amp his thought-speed (by slowing his perception of time with Third Eye) lets him get his spells off faster than the other two. HDE doesn't stop Joker from affecting them with his mindhax either.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Joker's mind manipulation is crap compared to the resistances of Dialga and Palkia though.

Being able to shrug off 2/3 of the 4-D embodiments of all the minds in the multiverse >>>>>>>>>>> anything Joker has.

He can easily do it to Cyrus tho.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also Joker doesn't have to take out Dialga and Palkia. He just has to take out Cyrus. The Creation Trio don't exactly...like Cyrus. They're just forced to do his bidding. He dies, they just eff off back to their dimensions and won't try to avenge him.

 

[Solacis]

Didn't really know that was what the Lake Trio were, so my bad. Though like you said, he only has to hit Cyrus.

Joker still has death hax and sleep hax too, neither of which rely on mind manip, and the former being one of his most used moves.

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[Ionliosite]

The question would be: will Joker attack Dialga and Palkia first or go for Cyrus?

 

[Solacis]

He doesn't have to choose. He's facing two dangerous enemies at once, so he'll go for the AOE version of his hax, which by default target all enemies on the field. Either he focuses only on Dialga and Palkia, incapping them before going for Cyrus, or he goes for all three of them and finishes the match then and there.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

It seems likely that Joker will go for all three first. He should be able to tank at least the first attack with certain Personas. So if all he needs to do is kill Cyrus, I think Joker will.

 

[Solacis]

Killing humans isn't exactly on Joker's to-do list, even with his morals restricted enough for him to follow through when he needs to. He'll likely go for Dialga and Palkia first if he decides to use his death hax. He'll go for all three if he uses his non-lethal methods though.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Then what about lullaby? This also affects all enemies.

 

[Solacis]

If his first thought is to take down Cyrus, then he'll use Lullaby on all of them. If his first thought is to get past Dialga and Palkia, then he'll use Mahama/Mamudo on the two. Either one's equally likely.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Guess I'll go with Joker.

 

[Ionliosite]

Joker FRA, I guess.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Joker not enemy of batman fra

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Joker likely will go for a large-scale heavy hitting AOE attack to take down the both, and or try to lull them into incapacitation. Voting Joker.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not sure Joker could successfully take down the G4 boxarts as easily as you're claiming, if at all.

 

[Solacis]

He's more likely to go for incap anyway, so the point's moot.

 

[GyroNutz]

Shouldn't Dialga and Palkia both resist sleep manip via nonsleeper IQ?

Also there's an ongoing CRT which could give Dialga and Palkia type 5 immortality, so death manip may also be moot.