Jojo speed

[M3X_2.0]

ha

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The anime shows this as well, Rohan reacts to B2M the moment he comes and before he grabs HD. "Nani!" being "What!", if that wasn't obvious.

Wrong timestamp
I was talking about 0:36 of that video
(Not the full response I have more to say)

 

[ZillertheBucko]

First off, no he wasn't, we can tell when he has he furious rage boost. Second off, Killer Queen and Kira were outright stated twice to have to hyperfocus to keep up with CD, they downscale, they aren't on par.

The very fact you lead off with "Kira was destroyed in that fight" should be a huge red flag. Second off, KQ was only shown comparable albeit still slower than NOT pissed CD, in fact the punch he blocked was a warning shot from CD because Josuke didn't know for sure it was Kira yet and Josuke himself states if he isn't Kira he'll just fix him and walk away.
Do you actually think Josuke was so pissed off he'd kill a man against a man he didn't know was Kira yet or not? That's rhetorical, of course he wasnt.

I am talking about the scene after josuke gets out of the house and fights Kira
He is very well aware by this point that kosaku is kira, and has very good reason to be furious considering well
he just got finished avoiding being killed by him, and at the time Okuyasu was "killed" only a few moments ago by Kira
not to mention his aura is the same color as when he gets pissed, his expression, and his voice (although it's anime only of course)

Killer Queen deflected the shard CD flicked, after it was flicked CD used his restoration on it to turn it into a homing missile and to make it 180 and strike Kira in the back, which it does, and Kira doesn't react to it so we can't scale him to it.

Deflecting the initial flick isn't impressive, it's anything but, CD's flicked objects are only mach speeds, not FTL, it's EXPLICITLY his restoration at its highest known speed that is FTL, and that isn't what Kira reacts to, in fact it's what pegs him in the back, twice.

See look I'll even point it out for you,


See that? It's the anime version of the scene. The scenes are the exact same, but in order to help you out here, when Josuke flicks the object, it has purple aura, which is the color of objects flicked by CD, such as against Ratt.
KQ deflects it because of course he does, it ain't exactly fast.

Josuke proceeds to use the restoration on the shards and blood after the fact, the deflected shard is then covered in yellow aura, which is the aura to indicate that CD's restoration is being used, the shard 180's and pegs Kira.

And then again a second time later.

Like dude what the hell, I pointed out above in the VERY SAME post I brought this up that this instance is an example of what WOULDNT count.

while this is all true and admittedly an oversight on my part, it is still worth noting that Hayato is of the opinion that Kira would see it coming the 2nd time he tried to use that attack, the value of that is up to you to decide and I assume that it's probably not enough to convince you of anything, but I'm leaving it here just in case

You're now testing my patience, you can't be serious, and if you are, don't, I'd prefer if you weren't.
Dude, you are unironically, ignoring the two statements saying KQ is below CD in speed, ignoring that's in regards to a not rage boosted CD, ignoring that CD even while furious is still quite a bit slower than SP and SP stopped time in that first fight EXPLICITLY because he was caught off guard and rusty, and that isn't even speculation, we're outright told he wasn't expecting Furious CD to be that capable and so was blindsided and stopped time to dodge the strike and cease the fight then and there so nobody got hurt.
The very fact we're told CD at his best is still slower than casual SP is the biggest red flag I could think of and the fact that's a key part of your argument is indication it's faulty at best.

see above for why it is definitely a rage boosted Crazy Diamond
Killer Queen Downscales from angry crazy diamond, who downscales from star platinum, who is still undoubtedly mftl in part 4, since he is faster than other mftl stands that should have still existed at the time, mainly silver chariot
now time for a few points
1. both Kira and Josuke were injured to the point of having trouble standing, it is not gonna be a very good idea to argue Josuke's injuries made him unable to blitz killer queen harder especially since Josuke has higher stamina than Kira in the first place
2. Jotaro does say that if the fight continued either one of them (himself or Josuke) would've been badly injured, so try not to oversell how much stronger Star Platinum is compared to angry diamond. Jotaro's statement about how rusty it is was more likely referring to time stop, since he specifically mentions his ability to stop time in that moment
3. Josuke would have at the very least needed to be either ftl+ or lower mftl in order to do what he did to Jotaro and make Jotaro say something like that
and Kira must have been at least ftl+ to react to Josuke, who (though it's not precisely quantifiable) had good reason to likely be angrier at Kira than he was at Jotaro. Kira is at most mftl and at least ftl+
4. and finally for the love of god refrain from acting the way you are
even if my logic so far has had some holes, it is very easy to see how I come to the conclusions that I do and I don't really feel like you insulting my intelligence (or at least implying it) is entirely justified here
but you can continue, I don't really care any major amount about this, I just think it's notably annoying to deal with

of course, I'm accepting of the fact that you may find a hole in my argument that I didn't see, but the whole point of this debate is so that you respond, I fill the holes, and eventually we come to a conclusion
I haven't used a failed argument twice without adding to it or changing it in some way, I'm not an idiot bro, and I'm not repeating false things and being too stubborn, it just takes a while to finish arguments when you're probably the first person I've ever had go this much farther to disprove as many of my points as possible, which I then have to go and fix, which gets another rebuttal, and then I have to refix it and eventually move onto the next point in my argument

 

[ZillertheBucko]

ha

btw I'd like to hear your input
do you still believe in relativistic+ Killer queen being a thing after all the posts presented so far? just curious really

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yes.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I was going to put just a "likely", you're lucky to have an "at most" and even a "likely higher"

 

[ZillertheBucko]

so basically I've made no progress and should just give up now then, I assume

 

[M3X_2.0]

I mean, unless you show me someone in Part 4 matching Star Platinum in speed, then you'll not convince me. There is a reason for why Star Platinum has like, 4 or 5 statements of being the fastest doesn't matter the Part he is in.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I mean, unless you show me someone in Part 4 matching Star Platinum in speed, then you'll not convince me. There is a reason for why Star Platinum has like, 4 or 5 statements of being the fastest doesn't matter the Part he is in.

but what about angry crazy diamond being stated to be capable of injuring Jotaro, who is still mftl at the time, and then Kira reacting to angry CD while both are injured? Not even lightspeed+ killer queen?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Nah. Crazy Diamond being able to damage Jotaro doesn't mean Star Platinum wouldn't be able to protect him, if that's what you meant. The context of the scene is clear, Crazy Diamond broke the guard of a casual Star Platinum, and then was going to hit him. The punch would damage Star Platinum, and then, Jotaro.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Nah. Crazy Diamond being able to damage Jotaro doesn't mean Star Platinum wouldn't be able to protect him, if that's what you meant. The context of the scene is clear, Crazy Diamond broke the guard of a casual Star Platinum, and then was going to hit him. The punch would damage Star Platinum, and then, Jotaro.

makes sense, however
Jotaro wouldn't have been able to avoid being hit had it not been for time stop
at the very least, when star platinum (who is still faster than a part 3 level silver chariot at this time, as well as defeated part 3 stand users) was forced into using time stop, which is implying that at that point, star platinum wouldn't have been fast enough to block the punch due to it being so close to his face at the time
this certainly warrants some kind of scaling, some kind of comparability to even the smallest extent, no? not even ftl+ Crazy Diamond?

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's not because he doesn't have enough speed, it's because his guard was broken, and CD was almost touching him. He couldn't simply recover his guard that fast. The scene was built to show thaat CD is strong when Josuke is strong.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's not because he doesn't have enough speed, it's because his guard was broken, and CD was almost touching him. He couldn't simply recover his guard that fast. The scene was built to show thaat CD is strong when Josuke is strong.

so does the wiki not allow things like Jotaro being shocked at Josuke's speed and sweating about it afterwards to be used as evidence for scaling? If that's the case then I may need some more time to find something that shows Josuke being comparable to star platinum

 

[M3X_2.0]

It would be acceptable under normal conditions. But then we gto RHCP arc and the statements of Star Platinum being the fastest.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It would be acceptable under normal conditions. But then we gto RHCP arc and the statements of Star Platinum being the fastest.

well, it's already known that he's the fastest but
if it is acceptable as evidence, then it would be technically valid for downscaling then
for example "speed: FTL+, possibly MFTl. Should be comparable to Star Platinum"
meanwhile star platinum would simply be MFTL

 

[M3X_2.0]

Mate, I don't think you've understand this. But Red Hot Chili Pepper being slower than the speed of light in combat is already evidence of Crazy Diamond, who was beated by him, being slower than light as well. There is no way for them to be FTL+, Part 4 is caped at Rel+ and really low FTL forever unless retcon happens.

No one in Part 4 is comparable to Star Platinum. No one. You can't say that and think it's consistent. Why the **** would they be comparable to a dude that is the fastest ****** around and he literally blitzes everyone? Only thing Josuke did was simply punch Star Platinum and break his guard. Cool. That's all. There is no way to scale speed in that. You're just tossing random ratings such as FTL+ thinking they would downscale from Star Platinum.

Just... take a look. Killer Queen was fighting Crazy Diamond and could react to him. CD only blitzed him when Josuke was kinda pissed after being heavily injured + Okuyasu's death. A half dead Jotaro could react to Killer Queen, and Star Platinum completely blitzed him and Kira couldnt even belive a ****** as fast as SP could exist.

There is simply no way Part 4 can be MFTL. RHCP is way faster than Josuke but he is slower than light. Only Jotaro can keep up with light speed. You'll need to hope the next guide to simply retcon everything.

 

[Chariot190]

I am talking about the scene after josuke gets out of the house and fights Kira

So when they're both weak as hell and Kira straight up says he can't afford to divert even a sliver of attention away from Crazy Diamond's speed because he's getting blitzed and can't even touch CD?

He is very well aware by this point that kosaku is kira, and has very good reason to be furious considering wellhe just got finished avoiding being killed by him, and at the time Okuyasu was "killed" only a few moments ago by Kiranot to mention his aura is the same color as when he gets pissed, his expression, and his voice (although it's anime only of course)

And Kira is getting his ASS kicked, he can' even TOUCH Josuke and he says himself that he straight up can't do anything but focus on CD's speed otherwise he's completely ******, and that's to prevent getting ******, Kira can not make contact woth CD and CD is countering every single one of his blows.

Kira ain't keeping up, Kira is on the end of getting blitzed.



In this exchange Josuke only strikes AFTER Kira does, counters him each time, Kira goes on record and is saying that's what's happening, he can't even touch CD and he's going to lose. The next panel he also states whatever just protected him wasn't him, as he can't divert any attention from CD's speed.

KQ doesn't scale to angry CD, he's getting his ass handed to him on a silver platter.

while this is all true and admittedly an oversight on my part, it is still worth noting that Hayato is of the opinion that Kira would see it coming the 2nd time he tried to use that attack, the value of that is up to you to decide and I assume that it's probably not enough to convince you of anything, but I'm leaving it here just in case

Hayato is of the opinion the trick wouldn't work again (it does anyway, albeit while distracted).
Point is Kira DOESN'T REACT to it, and damn lad, I wish he did, a few people can even vouch for that as I looked it up a few months ago, was hopeful that scene would give FTL for end of Part 4, but Kira didn't actually react either time meaning we couldn't scale. Hell I'm still pissed actually.

see above for why it is definitely a rage boosted Crazy Diamond

I'm not inherently against it being a rage boosted CD, in fact I have it kinda worded like that on the profile, the issue is, KQ doesn't scale to him, he's losing BADLY specifically in regards to speed at that. KQ kinda scales to CD at the start of the fight, but that's BEFORE Josuke gets truly angry. When he's angry the speed disadvantage goes from being manageable to Kira can't do anything.

Killer Queen Downscales from angry crazy diamond, who downscales from star platinum, who is still undoubtedly mftl in part 4, since he is faster than other mftl stands that should have still existed at the time, mainly silver chariot

First off, no, not undoubtly, or do I need to go over that again? He's possibly still MFTL, he could be, or he could not be. Though even if he is, CD while enraged doesn't have any actual solid scaling to him besides an off hand comment to Jotaro.
And KQ doesn't downscale from that CD anyway as KQ was getting his ass blitzed when CD got mad, it was only base CD he could keep up with.

1. both Kira and Josuke were injured to the point of having trouble standing, it is not gonna be a very good idea to argue Josuke's injuries made him unable to blitz killer queen harder especially since Josuke has higher stamina than Kira in the first place

Josuke has ******* LOGS impaled through him, Kira might be injured, but Josuke is even worse off, Hayato even points it out "Josuke might be injured but he's still more then a match for Kira!".
And Kira has high stamina too lad, he gets floored by SP and ******* chops his hand off and flees across town, and manages to kill several people with said injuries.

Josuke's best stamina feat is unironically this scene itself, and he's pissed here, adrenaline and all that. Matter of the fact is, both are injured, Josuke more so, and while CD is enraged here to an extent and thus would be faster, KQ actually completely and utterly fails to hold his ground against the speed boosted CD here, so he doesn't scale.

2. Jotaro does say that if the fight continued either one of them (himself or Josuke) would've been badly injured, so try not to oversell how much stronger Star Platinum is compared to angry diamond. Jotaro's statement about how rusty it is was more likely referring to time stop, since he specifically mentions his ability to stop time in that moment

I'll do so because we're told SP who doesn't want to fight and is rusty and is just testing his power and is caught off guard and etc is STILL stronger than that furious CD. You know how utterly pathetic that is?
Crazy Diamond, who's power is stated to have been drastically above his normal power still isn't even against a Star Platinum who actively DOESNT want to fight. That's sad as ****.

And I've already went over this, Jotaro is rusty with time stop, in fcat his time stop is almost useless there at that point, he can't even stop time for a second, which is why I'm wondering why you think it even matters a whole lot in the hypothetical fight a held back Jotaro would do against an all out beyond max power CD.

And the worst part is, Jotaro himself states "Of course, I wouldn't have lost" right after that line.

Josuke would have at the very least needed to be either ftl+ or lower mftl in order to do what he did to Jotaro and make Jotaro say something like thatand Kira must have been at least ftl+ to react to Josuke, who (though it's not precisely quantifiable) had good reason to likely be angrier at Kira than he was at Jotaro. Kira is at most mftl and at least ftl+

No he ******* wouldn't have, at all, hell Pol calls Hierophant Green fast at one point, only to later in the Part blitz him casually.

And Jotaro STILL reacted to that punch, even after being taken off guard, even after it's said he was merely testing him in JoJoveller, even after CD had a ridiculous amp, even after the manga goes out of it's way to show that SP is far and beyond the whole of the Part in speed and states as much many times.

Crazy Diamond doesn't ******* scale to someone who blitzes him IN THAT VERY SCENE while enraged and is told to be faster by a **** ton.

And again, you aren't even paying attention, at all. You're unironically ******* arguing that Killer Queen ultimately downscales from SP via CD who doesn't even downscale from SP in the first place ignoring the fact KQ got his ******* ass blitzed explicitly by pissed CD, but no, that's not the worst part.

The worst part is you somehow forgot already even though I posted it, is that KQ while fresh for the most part got BLITZED by a dying Star Platinum.


Like did you just forget that Star Platinum while literally dying, bleeding out, having holes through him, was so fast that Kira straight up says he can't believe how fast SP is and that he's way to fast. And of course, gets blitzed and ragdolled by the near dead SP.

4. and finally for the love of god refrain from acting the way you are

No, first off, you're wasting our time, this isn't a "haha funny debate", this shit is controversial, we've had threads last for literally months and hundreds and hundreds of posts over topics like this.
If we've gone over every point you're making and you continue to debate it despite bring nothing new to the table but even repeating the same arguments that have been proven false in the very same thread, yeah, stop it, cease.

even if my logic so far has had some holes, it is very easy to see how I come to the conclusions that I do and I don't really feel like you insulting my intelligence (or at least implying it) is entirely justified here

It really isnt. Like for example, you're arguing KQ scales to enraged CD right now, despite the fact KQ couldn't get a single hit in, was stated twice in that exchange he was getting blitzed by the characters themselves to the point Kira had to hyperfocus to not die essentially, all while CD was blitzing him in RESPONSE to all his attacks AFTER they happen proving he's without a doubt much faster. How the hell do you scale someone to a character who they unironically can't even touch due to speed?
but you can continue, I don't really care any major amount about this, I just think it's notably annoying to deal with

of course, I'm accepting of the fact that you may find a hole in my argument that I didn't see, but the whole point of this debate is so that you respond, I fill the holes, and eventually we come to a conclusion

Except no, that's such an ass backwards way to debate, because as said, I'm not here to debate, either the information, is right or wrong, so far all of it's been wrong.

You want FL+ to MFTL Part 4, CD and the like, so you keep saying shit, over and over and over, it's wrong of course but I point out why it's wrong, which props you to try and find more excuses and pray that eventually, maybe, you eventually get something that sticks them at MFTL, but that isn't gonna happen, ignoring it'd all but be an outlier for 90% of the Part, what you want doesn't exist, you'd have the most flimsy, contradictory reasoning as to why they'd be that speed and that's not how we do things here.
And I'm getting tired of it, you just spouting things and praying it somehow works out or that I agree won't happen unless it's right, "patching holes" into your reasoning is bad, because that just shows your reasoning was never true to begin with.

I haven't used a failed argument twice without adding to it or changing it in some way, I'm not an idiot bro, and I'm not repeating false things and being too stubborn, it just takes a while to finish arguments when you're probably the first person I've ever had go this much farther to disprove as many of my points as possible, which I then have to go and fix, which gets another rebuttal, and then I have to refix it and eventually move onto the next point in my argument

Ignoring the fact you did three times, and the whole of this post is repeated information for the most part, you even repeated an argument I pointed out was false to you in the first place before you brought it up.

Again, I'm not arguing with you, is that what you think this is? I'm telling you, point blank, the info you presented is wrong, we're not debating it, I'm telling you it's false because it is false. If you end up bringing actual legit info, then it'd be legit and that's kinda the end of it, it'd check and all it'd warrant is an "ok cool". The issue lies in that thing you want doesn't exist, it's impossible, with what exists in Part 4 of the manga, isn't sufficient enough to get CD to MFTL full stop, if even half that.

And we have more important things to deal with then doing this, if you want to make a CRT for JoJo or a Q&A thread go ahead, but don't drag on probably the single most controversial aspect you can think of just for the SAKE of trying to get them to MFTL instead of doing it because it's right.

 

[Chariot190]

Mate, I don't think you've understand this. But Red Hot Chili Pepper being slower than the speed of light in combat is already evidence of Crazy Diamond, who was beated by him, being slower than light as well. There is no way for them to be FTL+, Part 4 is caped at Rel+ and really low FTL forever unless retcon happens.

No one in Part 4 is comparable to Star Platinum. No one. You can't say that and think it's consistent. Why the **** would they be comparable to a dude that is the fastest ****** around and he literally blitzes everyone? Only thing Josuke did was simply punch Star Platinum and break his guard. Cool. That's all. There is no way to scale speed in that. You're just tossing random ratings such as FTL+ thinking they would downscale from Star Platinum.

Just... take a look. Killer Queen was fighting Crazy Diamond and could react to him. CD only blitzed him when Josuke was kinda pissed after being heavily injured + Okuyasu's death. A half dead Jotaro could react to Killer Queen, and Star Platinum completely blitzed him and Kira couldnt even belive a ****** as fast as SP could exist.

There is simply no way Part 4 can be MFTL. RHCP is way faster than Josuke but he is slower than light. Only Jotaro can keep up with light speed. You'll need to hope the next guide to simply retcon everything.

Thank god for M3X. Good explanation.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Since this post has been debunked to shreds, it's pretty clear this needs to be closed

 

[Chariot190]

Literally just wait like 2 months, we live in a time where post Part 4 Josuke is about to get more feats, the absolute perfect time to wait and see what happens. We don't need threads like this that don't do anything when we can have an actual thread with new info that's likely to include some actual good scaling while also not causing any consistency or scaling issues.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

So when they're both weak as hell and Kira straight up says he can't afford to divert even a sliver of attention away from Crazy Diamond's speed because he's getting blitzed and can't even touch CD?



And Kira is getting his ASS kicked, he can' even TOUCH Josuke and he says himself that he straight up can't do anything but focus on CD's speed otherwise he's completely ******, and that's to prevent getting ******, Kira can not make contact woth CD and CD is countering every single one of his blows.

Kira ain't keeping up, Kira is on the end of getting blitzed.



In this exchange Josuke only strikes AFTER Kira does, counters him each time, Kira goes on record and is saying that's what's happening, he can't even touch CD and he's going to lose. The next panel he also states whatever just protected him wasn't him, as he can't divert any attention from CD's speed.

KQ doesn't scale to angry CD, he's getting his ass handed to him on a silver platter.



Hayato is of the opinion the trick wouldn't work again (it does anyway, albeit while distracted).
Point is Kira DOESN'T REACT to it, and damn lad, I wish he did, a few people can even vouch for that as I looked it up a few months ago, was hopeful that scene would give FTL for end of Part 4, but Kira didn't actually react either time meaning we couldn't scale. Hell I'm still pissed actually.



I'm not inherently against it being a rage boosted CD, in fact I have it kinda worded like that on the profile, the issue is, KQ doesn't scale to him, he's losing BADLY specifically in regards to speed at that. KQ kinda scales to CD at the start of the fight, but that's BEFORE Josuke gets truly angry. When he's angry the speed disadvantage goes from being manageable to Kira can't do anything.



First off, no, not undoubtly, or do I need to go over that again? He's possibly still MFTL, he could be, or he could not be. Though even if he is, CD while enraged doesn't have any actual solid scaling to him besides an off hand comment to Jotaro.
And KQ doesn't downscale from that CD anyway as KQ was getting his ass blitzed when CD got mad, it was only base CD he could keep up with.



Josuke has ******* LOGS impaled through him, Kira might be injured, but Josuke is even worse off, Hayato even points it out "Josuke might be injured but he's still more then a match for Kira!".
And Kira has high stamina too lad, he gets floored by SP and ******* chops his hand off and flees across town, and manages to kill several people with said injuries.

Josuke's best stamina feat is unironically this scene itself, and he's pissed here, adrenaline and all that. Matter of the fact is, both are injured, Josuke more so, and while CD is enraged here to an extent and thus would be faster, KQ actually completely and utterly fails to hold his ground against the speed boosted CD here, so he doesn't scale.



I'll do so because we're told SP who doesn't want to fight and is rusty and is just testing his power and is caught off guard and etc is STILL stronger than that furious CD. You know how utterly pathetic that is?
Crazy Diamond, who's power is stated to have been drastically above his normal power still isn't even against a Star Platinum who actively DOESNT want to fight. That's sad as ****.

And I've already went over this, Jotaro is rusty with time stop, in fcat his time stop is almost useless there at that point, he can't even stop time for a second, which is why I'm wondering why you think it even matters a whole lot in the hypothetical fight a held back Jotaro would do against an all out beyond max power CD.

And the worst part is, Jotaro himself states "Of course, I wouldn't have lost" right after that line.



No he ******* wouldn't have, at all, hell Pol calls Hierophant Green fast at one point, only to later in the Part blitz him casually.

And Jotaro STILL reacted to that punch, even after being taken off guard, even after it's said he was merely testing him in JoJoveller, even after CD had a ridiculous amp, even after the manga goes out of it's way to show that SP is far and beyond the whole of the Part in speed and states as much many times.

Crazy Diamond doesn't ******* scale to someone who blitzes him IN THAT VERY SCENE while enraged and is told to be faster by a **** ton.

And again, you aren't even paying attention, at all. You're unironically ******* arguing that Killer Queen ultimately downscales from SP via CD who doesn't even downscale from SP in the first place ignoring the fact KQ got his ******* ass blitzed explicitly by pissed CD, but no, that's not the worst part.

The worst part is you somehow forgot already even though I posted it, is that KQ while fresh for the most part got BLITZED by a dying Star Platinum.


Like did you just forget that Star Platinum while literally dying, bleeding out, having holes through him, was so fast that Kira straight up says he can't believe how fast SP is and that he's way to fast. And of course, gets blitzed and ragdolled by the near dead SP.



No, first off, you're wasting our time, this isn't a "haha funny debate", this shit is controversial, we've had threads last for literally months and hundreds and hundreds of posts over topics like this.
If we've gone over every point you're making and you continue to debate it despite bring nothing new to the table but even repeating the same arguments that have been proven false in the very same thread, yeah, stop it, cease.


It really isnt. Like for example, you're arguing KQ scales to enraged CD right now, despite the fact KQ couldn't get a single hit in, was stated twice in that exchange he was getting blitzed by the characters themselves to the point Kira had to hyperfocus to not die essentially, all while CD was blitzing him in RESPONSE to all his attacks AFTER they happen proving he's without a doubt much faster. How the hell do you scale someone to a character who they unironically can't even touch due to speed?
but you can continue, I don't really care any major amount about this, I just think it's notably annoying to deal with



Except no, that's such an ass backwards way to debate, because as said, I'm not here to debate, either the information, is right or wrong, so far all of it's been wrong.

You want FL+ to MFTL Part 4, CD and the like, so you keep saying shit, over and over and over, it's wrong of course but I point out why it's wrong, which props you to try and find more excuses and pray that eventually, maybe, you eventually get something that sticks them at MFTL, but that isn't gonna happen, ignoring it'd all but be an outlier for 90% of the Part, what you want doesn't exist, you'd have the most flimsy, contradictory reasoning as to why they'd be that speed and that's not how we do things here.
And I'm getting tired of it, you just spouting things and praying it somehow works out or that I agree won't happen unless it's right, "patching holes" into your reasoning is bad, because that just shows your reasoning was never true to begin with.



Ignoring the fact you did three times, and the whole of this post is repeated information for the most part, you even repeated an argument I pointed out was false to you in the first place before you brought it up.

Again, I'm not arguing with you, is that what you think this is? I'm telling you, point blank, the info you presented is wrong, we're not debating it, I'm telling you it's false because it is false. If you end up bringing actual legit info, then it'd be legit and that's kinda the end of it, it'd check and all it'd warrant is an "ok cool". The issue lies in that thing you want doesn't exist, it's impossible, with what exists in Part 4 of the manga, isn't sufficient enough to get CD to MFTL full stop, if even half that.

And we have more important things to deal with then doing this, if you want to make a CRT for JoJo or a Q&A thread go ahead, but don't drag on probably the single most controversial aspect you can think of just for the SAKE of trying to get them to MFTL instead of doing it because it's right.

1. Kira doesn't need to be keeping up, the fact that he can still react to Josuke and see his attacks is evidence of Kira's reaction speed.
2. Star Platinum is still the fastest stand in the jojo universe during part 4, and I've explained a few times why his age is likely a very minimal and overall negligible factor. You can't change the fact that Crazy Diamond had physical power that was able to break through star platinum's defenses and would have the speed to hit him before he was able to block his last punch had it not been for time stop. If Crazy Diamond was only ftl, considering he has fought polnareff, ndoul, tower of gray, and other mftl stands, there's no reason for him to care about angry Josuke who according to you should be far far slower
and sure, let's say he was somehow shocked by such a speed, except he has already seen multiple times that Crazy Diamond is a close range stand, and he was not sneak attacked by Josuke in any way. I can only hope you're starting to see the problem
it's like if Mike Tyson was attacked by a crippled teenager and didn't expect it. If he's that much slower, then why the **** should he be shocked to any extent
and the argument that he was holding back makes little sense as well, Star Platinum was clearly blocking, not attacking. There was no punch from him to even pull, so there is no way he is just letting an ftl crazy diamond land that hit on his face, especially not after he already knew his punches were dangerous enough to break star platinum's guard.
3. Of course Kira got blitzed by Jotaro, did you forget that he has one of the most potent anger boosts in the series, as well as extremely high stamina with being able to walk and talk almost perfectly normally with multiple holes inside of him, on top of being able to catch Kira before he falls down without even using star platinum. Kira was clearly caught off guard because
first, he's never seen star platinum before
secondly, the first attack Jotaro threw was incredibly weak and slow enough for killer queen to catch it casually. Of course, this is also proof of the anger boost kicking in, considering Koichi got turned into a donut by Killer Queen
anyways, star platinum should be blitzing him anyways because non angry star platinum is a comparable match for angry crazy diamond who kira could barely react to
but barely react to is still react to
4. Both Kira and Josuke were injured, both couldn't stand for some moments
and yes, Kira did get beaten by star platinum, and yes he did run away, but you're the one saying context matters, and you should really take your own advice
the gang was distracted by him cutting his ******* hand off, and then letting sheer heart attack free. Josuke then goes on to pummel sheer heart attack for a few seconds and then heal it to his hand
and on top of that, Kira had only BARELY managed to outrun them in that moment, since just a few seconds before they came he had changed his identity to Kosaku Kawajiri. Josuke is the one with the higher stamina, both were falling over. What more do you want at this point?

and I don't really care if this thread gets closed, but these arguments are getting to be more and more bullshit dude, at this point I'm just shocked that you believe something as implausible as relativistic Killer queen, and would prefer you like, not

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I was shocked earlier that you could reply to my arguments, but then I realized, if you're wrong, you can reply to anything with a bad argument such as yours
I've very clearly already made my point anyways, so please make your next response something that isn't an absolutely pathetic attempt at beating solid logic

 

[KingTempest]

Mans said Chariot's arguments were bad

Oh god

Yeah the OP has been debunked and most likely, this isn't going through.

Closing