Jiren (Dragon Ball) vs Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII)

[Schnee_One]

Fair

 

[AshenCrow777]

Slowga can make Jiren 24% to 30% slower and it can stack up with her other time abilities.

Slowga is a level 3 Time Magic spell. It lower all target's speed by 25% for four turns. It is not affected by reflect. The lower limit for speed is 75%

And its maximum cap is shown to be 75%.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Slowga can make Jiren 24% to 30% slower and it can stack up with her other time abilities.

Slowga is a level 3 Time Magic spell. It lower all target's speed by 25% for four turns. It is not affected by reflect. The lower limit for speed is 75%

And its maximum cap is shown to be 75%.

So just to clarify, about 3 uses of Slowga is the max, and Lightning will have a 75% speed advantage (ignoring any other abilities she might use in conjunction with Slowga)?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

If Jiren is slowed to 25% of his speed, wouldn't tha tmake Lightning 4 times faster

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Slowing the opponent or speed amping self to blitz an otherwise faster opponent due to speed equal is not allowed afaik.

 

[BakiHanma18]

If Jiren is slowed to 25% of his speed, wouldn't tha tmake Lightning 4 times faster

Yeah, at max only using Slowga, she's 4 times faster. She also has time hax, but again, it's not entirely decided that they would work

 

[BakiHanma18]

Slowing the opponent or speed amping self to blitz an otherwise faster opponent due to speed equal is not allowed afaik.

If the person that is amping/debuffing is faster to begin with, they're allowed to speed blitz

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Jiren is MFTL+. Lightning is FTL+, MFTL combat and amp speed. She's the slower one, so Jiren simply adjusts to her amp and speed is equalised again.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Posting from a different thread where this problem came up

The Calaca Speed amps can let a character to speed blitz in a speed equalized match as long as the character that it's using them is originally the fastest between the fighters.

Character X is normally MHS with a 10x speed amp. He's fighting Character Y who's FTL. Speed gets equalized to make it fair, but X uses his amp and starts blitzing Y. With this the match can't be added because X is getting favoured by the rules of the match so it's unfair for Y to get blitzed when he's usually faster.

If the case is the other way around and who has the speed amps is Y, then it's fair. He can speedblitz and the match can be added because he's using an advantage that he held before the match got the speed equal.

In other words, if Shinra can amp his speed, then he can win via speedblitz. He's faster than Baki.

But right now this is a stomp. 7-C vs 8-B is a massive difference.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I mean, that's exactly what I am saying. Lightning is slower, so her speed amps don't let her win.

 

[BakiHanma18]

OHHHHH YEAH! Yeah if Lightning speed blitz's, this can't be added. If Jiren amps and speed blitz's, it can still be added

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Jiren doesn't have amps. However, nothing stops Lightning from timestop + soulrip.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Jiren doesn't have amps. However, nothing stops Lightning from timestop + soulrip.

Wouldn't LB be an amp, since he could keep up with MUI in speed?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

He's already in Limit Breaker in this match.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Oh I'm trippin out, you right

 

[AshenCrow777]

Timestop+soul rip ftw

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Jiren resists Slowga tho

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I also don't get what's impressive about her time stop working on Bhunivelze, he doesn't resist it.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Jiren: 10, possibly 12 (Warren Valio, Calaca Vs, Mickey1940, CryoTheMayo, Ionliosite, DragonEmperor23, The 2nd Existential Seed, Hst master, Schnee One, Minghaoly god, [Litentric Teo, The Causality]) - The last two people made mentions of Jiren's power advantage, but I am uncertain if it counted as a vote.

Lightning: 0, possibly 1 [Orion'sBow] - However, the only person who voted for Lightning voted for reasons and abilities that aren't listed on Lightning's page and then gloated over the character's victory - so I am uncertain if it should count at all.

Inconclusive: 0

Also, this thread has been concluded since February.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I also don't get what's impressive about her time stop working on Bhunivelze, he doesn't resist it.

Was that a reason someone gave? That's not why he can't resist it.

For reference, Lightning can stop time for 75 seconds. That's 150X the length of Hit's. Also, Hit's has a small AOE while Lightning's is universal. Thus, Lightning's ts is far far superior to anything Jiren has encountered before and the difference is staggeringly high enough that you can't say Lightning's ts outright gets resisted.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Also, this thread has been concluded since February.

^

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Was that a reason someone gave? That's not why he can't resist it.

For reference, Lightning can stop time for 75 seconds. That's 150X the length of Hit's. Also, Hit's has a small AOE while Lightning's is universal. Thus, Lightning's ts is far far superior to anything Jiren has encountered before and the difference is staggeringly high enough that you can't say Lightning's ts outright gets resisted.

Time stop potency isn't measured by range and length. It's measured by working on Immeasureable/Infinite speed beings or people with prior resistance to time stop.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

If its added, it gets removed. It doesn't seem to be, so maybe the debate can continue? Idk, necromancery may be illegal in VsB but many will admit to doing it, now that the council of mods and staff have legalised it.

(Bonus points for getting the reference)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Where did you get the range for Hit's time stop being small?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Time stop potency isn't measured by range and length. It's measured by working on Immeasureable/Infinite speed beings or people with prior resistance to time stop.

Is this true though? Link to where this became the accepted standard?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What do you mean by accepted standard? It's a logical conclusion to draw. If someone can shoot fire from their hands for ten meters and it lasts 20 seconds, then that doesn't mean the fire is stronger than someone who shoots fire for two meters that lasts 2 seconds. Sorry if this is a bad analogy. I could make a thread about it to see what the general standard is though, would that be preferable?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Time totally matters for '''time''' stop. It's why Goku's time resistance never factors in when he's fighting a time manipulator. Because it's not good time stop.

 

[Paul_Frank]

That's never been how it was treated

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Okay, I've received different responses for both sides. I'm going to make the thread.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3463010

made the thread

also accidentally put it on general discussion board instead of questions and answers

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also, as discussed on this thread, Hit's Timeskip is .5 seconds. Hit's Timestop is anywhere between 7 seconds to a little over a minute (since talking is a free action, the 1+ minute dialogue Hit has is shaved down to about 7 seconds), and while Hit's Timeskip is localized, Hit's Timestop is likely universal

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also, as discussed on this thread, Hit's Timeskip is .5 seconds. Hit's Timestop is anywhere between 7 seconds to a little over a minute (since talking is a free action, the 1+ minute dialogue Hit has is shaved down to about 7 seconds), and while Hit's Timeskip is localized, Hit's Timestop is likely universal

I highly doubt it too be universal.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Ash, you need to explain your reasoning beyond you doubting it.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Ash, you need to explain your reasoning beyond you doubting it.

I can I doubt it if I want out of all of us iv been providing the most info writting wall of text all over the places etc etc and honestly I'm tired you should all know by now I stand with Lightning and that Hit's time manip is not only weaker than hers but also not universal


Unless users are shown or stated to have limits in terms of range, or that their ranges extend to areas beyond the universe, then they are assumed to be universal or higher by the virtue of affecting the very flow of time itself, thus all of time in the universe.

Hit's Time-Skip/Freeze is always centered around is opponents that's how his time manip works and it depends on how strong an opponent is if an opponent is equal to him it will have much greater effect but Jiren was leagues above the dude so was goku his time skip completely depends on the fact if someone is stronger than him then is time manip is basically shit.


Lightning time manip are not restricted by that at all.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Also Hit's time stop last for several seconds and lightnings last for more than a solid minute and it can stack also it is completely independent on itself and can not be just overpowered by a stronger opponent (like Bhunivelze) so yeah I hope you understand now.

Also if it can affect immeasurable/infinite speed characters or time its basically stronger.


But in the case of lightning vs hit time manip she can stack that thing to several more minutes then him and up to a solid hour her time manip is just better and at stronger

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Again, it has nothing to do with the opponent's strength. I will again, post Hit's weakness section.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hit

"Weaknesses: Hit's movements during his Time-Skip can be predicted, and his attacks thus blocked or dodged, though this is difficult. His Cage of Time requires quite a lot of energy and focus to keep an enemy trapped."

No where on here does it say that it can be overpowered by brute strength. If you disagree, then make a CRT. Until then, don't argue with information that isn't accurate to the profile.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Also Hit's time stop last for several seconds and lightnings last for more than a solid minute and it can stack also it is completely independent on itself and can not be just overpowered by a stronger opponent (like Bhunivelze) so yeah I hope you understand now.

The amount of time a time stop lasts means nothing to how strong it is.

 

[BakiHanma18]

And WE'RE not paying attention to the opposition's argument...

 

[AshenCrow777]

You know that Jiren litteraly overpowered hit with brute strength I find it funny you are so quick to behind "go do a CRT then" truly funny really and yes the amount of time a time stop last those mean how strong it is your are going to bs me by saying character A can stop time for 5 seconds and character B can stop time for 5 days you are going to tell me it's equal are you serious????

It is explained in the manga that this technique is fully effective on opponents whose power level is near to or lesser than that of the user, otherwise, the amount of time skipped decreases the stronger the foe is.

That's the entire reason how Jiren and Goku got out goku powered up so freaking much that he was to much to handle and Jiren being Jiren just broke through it like a boss.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

The manga and the anime are two different canons. There is a manga Jiren and an Anime Jiren. This is the Anime Jiren. In the anime, Hit's technique does not rely on strength. I don't know why you think having to make a thread for information that isn't currently accepted is so funny.

I don't know if you missed it but https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3463010 here is a thread that explains why the length of the time stop does not matter.