Jason Grace speed

[XING06]

Shouldn't Jason Grace's lightning catching feat be reactions only? Because it is a single motion (also depending on his guard position, he wouldn't have to move his sword as much as the calc states just a foot at most). The rest of the time the characters can still be trheatened by mortal weapons (eg. During the Last Olympian, Percy's mother used a shotgun and blasted away a snake monster capable of keeping up with Percy. In addition in the Son of Magic book, the mortal doctor is able to shoot at and hit a monster with a handgun even if it didn't do much damage). Their reactions can stay, but their combat speed should probably be lowered to Supersonic to Hypersonic at best.

 

[XING06]

Also sorry I originally posted this in the general discussion area, so I reposted here.

 

[XING06]

bump

 

[Reppuzan]

Not 100% sure on this one, but I'm pretty sure we scale up their speed to the Giants and Titans.

Both are comparable to the Gods and can cross vast distances in moments (as shown in Greek Mythology when Hermes flew from Olympus to Ogygia in an instant).

If the heroes weren't comparable in movement speed, they'd constantly be playing catch up with the Giants and Titans, which just doesn't happen.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically, fiction is filled with these types of extreme inconsistencies, but we still have to scale from the higher feats to be fair to the characters.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, they should probably be MHS+ anyway, given the size of Apophis and individuals can keep up with him, which scales to Carter which scales to Percy which scales to Jason.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[XING06]

I always thought of the God's moving from place to place as transport speed though like with the wind gods - their movement speed is really high but combat speed is a lot lower.

But I guess that makes sense because of Apophis (giant snake bigger than the pyramids moving at high speeds requires even higher speed to dodge attacks from). But still wouldn't this be reaction speed only because in the books to keep up with apophis' attacks they mostly just use shields and single action dodging (Same with lightning block calc used to find Jason's speed)?

If someone could find a quote proving otherwise I'll be very thankful.

 

[Antvasima]

Reaction speed and combat speed seem to be mostly identical concepts, given that a character has to move to avoid incoming attacks.

 

[XING06]

It says in the speed page that reaction is a single action while combat is multiple (For example, master chief has subsonic combat speed but supersonic reactions because while he can dodge bullets he can only do so in short bursts not against sustained fire).

Like I said though again now that the Apophis example was brought up I can see them having their current or even higher speed but I think that it would mostly be reactions as I remember their fight then to be mostly utilizing blocking using shields or single motion dodging.

 

[Reppuzan]

@XING

Not really. Even Piper, the weakest of the Seven, was going toe-to-toe with Pereboia, who again wasn't quite at full strength.

"Piper was maybe the most impressive. She fenced with giantess Pereboia, sword against sword. Despite the fact that her foe was about five times larger, Piper seemed to be holding her own."

Jason took Porphyrion by surprise and sliced his spear in half:

"Porphyrion lashed out wildly with his spear, but Jason cut it in half with his gladius. He charged in, jabbing the sword through the giant's breastplate, then summoned the winds and blasted Porphyrion off a cliff."

These came straight from the Blood of Olympus. Feel free to find them with Ctrl + F.

 

[XING06]

Thanks for the scans. But as I said the god's actual combat speed is a lot lower; the ability of the gods to instantly teleport (in the eyes of demigods) is a form of wind travel (Hermes explanation Last Olympian) which seems to be travel speed only (for example Favonius was fought/injured by Jason though if he were actively using his full speed Jason would be unable to percieve it - faster than a god's teleportation which demigods percieve as teleportation).

I was hoping for a scan of Apophis vs Kain siblings from the last book in that series, as that to me seems like a more legitimate feat for this (Speed through sheer size). If you could find a scan for that I would be really grateful. Sorry I only have the Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus series not the Kane books

 

[Reppuzan]

Carter still ran up to Apophis and cut three gashes into his throat:

"Sadie tells me that Iwent a little insane. Honestly, I don't remember. The next thing I can recall, my voice was raw from screaming, and I was staggering away from Apophis, my magic almost exhausted, my broken hand throbbing, my crook and flail smoking with red-gray ooze—the blood of Chaos. Apophis had three gashes in his neck that weren't closing."

The fact that he did this while possessed by Horus says something about the gods.

 

[XING06]

Okay that does seem to indicate high combat speed as Apophis is pretty damn big so he'd have to move fast to get to that height and attack and withdraw without getting eaten, crushed, disintegrated, hadi-ed, melted, ripped apart, etc.

But still do you have any other feats (like carter dodging apophis or something?) because this doesn't really give us a good calcable idea of how fast a god/magician/demigod can fight at. They definitely seem fast but not nearly like what they are listed as now.

Sorry if I'm being a bit annoying. The Riordanverse is one of my favorites so I'm a bit picky about it, especially because in the Greek/Roman series their combat speed isn't seen anywhere near as fast. They do have crazy reaction speeds though. So for now can we put it as HHS+ reactions and Supersonic Combat (deflecting bullets/arrows) unless another calc pops up proving continuous combat speed?

 

[Reppuzan]

@XING

I don't see why we'd scale down the character's combat speed when they're clashing sword to sword.

 

[XING06]

Combat Speed

The speed at which a character can fight.

Reaction Speed
Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

Like I said the gods seem to have super high movement speed but we don't see them use that sort of speed during combat. And I've never seen any combat speed close to their HHS+ reactions in any of the series.

That's why I was hoping for an Apophis dodging feat to scale the combat speed from because he's so big the characters need high combat speed (Supersonic seems kind of low to me) to as you say for them to consistently combat him.

 

[Reppuzan]

@XING

It's scaling. If Porphyrion can raise his spear to stop a lightning bolt and proceed to fight Jason with the same speed, it's combat speed.

Jason also overwhelmed Porphyrion later on, and evenly matched Percy, who could be disarmed by Annabeth.

 

[XING06]

It's a single action though right so wouldn't that be reactions? And the porphyrion feat was calced to be only hypersonic not HHS+.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Xing

No. He was fighting Porphyrion and parrying all of hsi attacks, albeit was slightly overwhelmed. Only after Zeus reassured Jason did Jason completely dominate Porphyrion.

I don't understand your fixation on this when I've showed you numerous quotes of the demigods fighting Giants and so forth.

 

[XING06]

Sorry I get that your scaling. My issue is that I don't think the giant/gods' combat speed itself is actually HHS so the scaling for combat speed for demigods is off.

For example, Ephilates intercepted a lightning bolt then proceeded to fight Jason which was calced at only hypersonic.

The feat that they have their current speed scaled from is when Jason intercepts a lone lightning bolt without entering directly into combat with the monster that fired it - Lost Hero (single action, no continuous combat, so it should be a reaction.)

Using scaling we should get Hypersonic+ combat (scaling from Jason and Ephilates), HHS reactions (Jason by himself), and near instantaneous travel for the gods (canonical ability for gods)

 

[Reppuzan]

Why would it be restricted to reactions if Jason can enter melee combat with this Giant, hold his own, and then completely take him by surprise?

 

[XING06]

Like I said the calc for that one was Hypersonic not HHS, so its hypersonic combat.

The HHS feat did not involve close cqc combat; it was a single action and therefore a reaction.

 

[Reppuzan]

And yet Porphyrion was able to put up somewhat of a fight against Jason and nearly overwhelm him. Giants were supposed to kill the Gods, who are superior to demigods by default.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Xing

I'm sorry if I seem like a brick wall, but this is my reasoning.

Godly senses > Demigod senses.

Giants are supposed to be comparable to the gods, who are easily above any untrained demigod with a fraction of their power.

Hence, the Giants reactions would scale and all of the demigods have fought the giants. Thus the Seven should scale.

Percy and Nico also scale by default due to being fellow children of the Big Three, and possessed Percy was able to match Possessed Jason blow for blow, thus neither overwhelmed each other's reactions.

Hence why I say it scales to their combat speed.

 

[XING06]

@ Reppuzan

Anyway yeah I just reread the calc and I realized that I thought about the wrong part of the book. I thought this was when he fought the venti later on in the first book not the first time. In the first time, he did take them on in CQC so it could be used for Combat Speed.

However, the book is highly unclear about HOW he blocked the blast. It just says "Jason's blade absorbed the charge". In addition, he stabs a monster to death right after doing so, implying his blade is in a standard forward guard position. I've looked at the calc and it seems to assume he swings at the lightning bolt, which seems unlikely to me as standard guard position has your blade positioned at your body's side/center line (with a few European martial arts having a few variations - sorry I'm better with CMA and Eastern martial arts in general). Anyway, in this case he wouldn't have to move nearly as far to block the lightning bolt, lowering the speed required dramatically.

The time where he fought Ephilates however the giant did stop the lightning bolt and then directly parried several close combat attacks from Jason. This is clearly combat speed but it was calced to be only Hypersonic when he deflected lightning at that time.

So until we get another calc it should probably be like you said possibly/likely High Hypersonic at least Hypersonic Combat/Reaction Speed (again its highly inconsistent when a lightning bolt will hit - eg. he calls down a huge lighnting bolt to kill the first giant and he gets blasted by the venti).

Again sorry if I seem stubborn too I'm just trying to clarify my ideas so we can both come to a mutual conclusion. Anyway I now agree with you about it being applicable to combat speed (I just reread the books again - Heroes of Olympus has much better speed feats tha the original series which I was more familiar with so it does justify an upgrade) I just think the calc makes assumptions about his initial position that could possibly throw off its accuracy.

 

[Reppuzan]

One more time.

Porphyrion swatted Percy, who has comparable reactions to Jason, like a fly before he could react.

But Jason was able to hold his ground against Porphyrion one on one until Zeus arrived.

Does that not qualify for his combat speed being around the same?

 

[XING06]

Sorry I didn't see your above post before my edit.

Could you please reread my earlier edited post.

 

[XING06]

bump

 

[XING06]

Can someone please close this. I misread the feat that scaled for combat. I still think its likely that its actually a lower combat speed but we might as well go with the highest interpretation, because nothing suggests it is remotely out of their capabilities.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.