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XSOULOFCINDERX

They/Them
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This is their first keys being used respectively with Izuku starting in 5%, I want to see how a fight between these two would go down if Izuku wasn't crippled and also wasn't trying to save someone. Aside from that the fight still takes place in the forest like their first encounter did.

Izuku : 7

Himiko : 2

Incon :
 
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so this is def something

in terms of physically strength Izuku does outmuscle Toga since her 711.97 Tons is only with equipment, putting her physical strength and durability at 237.32 Tons well Izuku sits at 711.97 Tons across the board at 5% which gives Izuku a 3x advantage in strength/dura and a MASSIVE lifting strength advantage

Toga holds the speed advantage here since she scales to Mach 16.34 well 5% Deku is Mach 8.58, giving Toga about a 2x advantage in speed meaning she'll be a lot harder to hit for Izuku and since this is in The Beast's Forest Toga can 100% just make use of her stealth to make things far easier on her

skill is definitely in Toga's favor since she was able to outskill Eraser who is superior to Deku in CQC and she's even shown to take Deku by surprise in combat but Izuku is the smarter overall fighter since he analyzes his opponents and acts afterwards

honestly i'm leaning towards Toga taking it. well yes Izuku would only need 1 good grab on her to end the fight, her speed and overall skill advantage is gonna make that grab hard to land especially since in this key Izuku isn't as used to fighting opponents faster than him yet and given the location, Toga can spam her Stealth Mastery something shown to take Deku by surprise in the past to slowly weaken Deku overtime through cutting, stabbing him, sucking his blood out with her machine, etc and well Izuku does have amazing pain tolerance, hes not immune to pain and its gonna slow him down alongside his stamina getting worse as it continues

Toga takes it through Speed, Stealth Mastery, greater overall skill, and her equipment making up for the AP difference
 
It's unlikely but not impossible that he'll land that properly without Himiko outmaneuvering him as noted in the very argument you quoted a single sentence from, without any context I might add.
I don't think it's unlikely that he'll land a proper grapple on Himiko.


I'll just reply to the points in the main argument rather than just making my own post because that's simpler.

her speed and overall skill advantage is gonna make that grab hard to land especially since in this key Izuku isn't as used to fighting opponents faster than him yet and given the location, Toga can spam her Stealth Mastery something shown to take Deku by surprise in the past to slowly weaken Deku overtime through cutting, stabbing him, sucking his blood out with her machine, etc and well Izuku does have amazing pain tolerance, hes not immune to pain and its gonna slow him down alongside his stamina getting worse as it continues
I don't think that Himiko Toga outskilled Eraser head as shown in the profile
Himiko Toga literally did one dodge. I'm serious. I went back to watch the episode. All Himiko Toga did was flip over Eraserheard while he was using the pully thingy (I don't know what it's called), stab Eraserhead, and dodge then leave. That's not out-skilling. It looks to me to be more of a feat of Acrobatic skill rather than actual close-quarters-combat skill. They didn't have a prolonged fight. Ironically, a few seconds before, Izuku was dodging Himiko Toga while he was suprised from Himiko Toga suddenly changing from Rock Lock to herself. Eraserhead even deduced that Himiko Toga was using Shapeshifting while she was impersonating Rock Lock because of a stab wound that (I think) Eraserhead/Izuku had.

Since this is the scenario where Izuku and Himiko fight instead of (I think) Ochaco and Asui, I went back to see how the duo faired against Himiko.

Assuming that Himiko Toga stays around the same level of skill in Hand-to-Hand Combatant in all of her U.A Beginnings Saga Keys (That is to say, that she neither improved drastically or worsened drastically), then it could be said that Himiko Toga would be able to beat Ochaco and Tsu without breaking a sweat, since Eraserhead is definitively above his students and she's above him, right?


No. In the video, Himiko gets dodged by an injured Ochaco, disarmed, and pinned down. Does that mean that Ochaco is suddenly able to out-skill Eraserhead? No. I don't know where the logic came from to put Himiko Toga as "out-skilling" Eraser head, but Himiko Toga only "out-skilled" Eraserhead as much as Ochaco "out-skilled" Himiko Toga.

It doesn't even list that Ochaco did that in her profile.
Skilled Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Has learned the "Gunhead Martial Arts", a fighting style based on grappling and grabbing techniques)


her speed and overall skill advantage is gonna make that grab hard to land especially since in this key Izuku isn't as used to fighting opponents faster than him yet and given the location[...]
Himiko Toga is able to get grabbed by Ochaco, who is far less faster and skilled than her. Sure, a person could argue that Himiko Toga was holding herself back since she knows she is far stronger than Ochaco, but then that leads me to my next point:
We’ve seen how agile and slippery she is, I doubt Deku’s pinning her down unless she throws the fight
Himiko Toga throws the fight.

I'm sure everyone here knows how Himiko acts around Izuku, but I'll give a little summary for anyone that doesn't: Canonically, Himiko Toga is madly in-love with Izuku. Like, Yandere type of love. Of course, by this time she doesn't actually have feelings for Izuku yet
Himiko develops feelings for Izuku after seeing him badly injured while being carried by Mezo Shoji during Vanguard Action Squad's attack.
but considering that she'll be cutting him...
Izuku's appearance matched her type of "tattered guys reeking of blood"
And this crush develops fast. Like, within a few seconds fast. I'd bet that if Izuku's actually being beaten down, she'll be developing a crush on him based on how he looks. Himiko Toga went up against Ochaco and Tsu before seeing Izuku, so it is In-Character for her to mess around with her food (See the entire fight scene) Sure, she could spam Stealth Mastery, but at best, she'd only do it like twice because Vanguard Action Squad Himiko Toga only used it as a starting move and then just stayed in close-quarters-combat to fight.


Considering that Himiko Toga would largely be carefree and wouldn't actually use her Eraserhead levels of skill until she is provoked, Izuku pretty much catches her more often than not because Himiko Toga straight up wouldn't be using her speed advantage, as well as not knowing that Izuku can actually pin her down. It literally takes one grab. The chances will only increase as time goes on, especially at the point when Himiko Toga develops feelings for him. Hell, Izuku can even use Social Influencing on Himiko Toga while she's pinned down if she's actually struggling to get out.

If Izuku is getting pressed enough, he can just destroy the forest area with his Air Manipulation and then Himiko Toga has to actually face him in close-quarters-combat.

(Unless it's somehow linked to his AP)


I vote for Izuku, count my vote.
 
I don't think that Himiko Toga outskilled Eraser head as shown in the profile

Himiko Toga literally did one dodge. I'm serious. I went back to watch the episode. All Himiko Toga did was flip over Eraserheard while he was using the pully thingy (I don't know what it's called), stab Eraserhead, and dodge then leave. That's not out-skilling. It looks to me to be more of a feat of Acrobatic skill rather than actual close-quarters-combat skill. They didn't have a prolonged fight. Ironically, a few seconds before, Izuku was dodging Himiko Toga while he was suprised from Himiko Toga suddenly changing from Rock Lock to herself. Eraserhead even deduced that Himiko Toga was using Shapeshifting while she was impersonating Rock Lock because of a stab wound that (I think) Eraserhead/Izuku had.
She was able to dodge attacks from Eraser Head, twice to be specific. the one where she used his OWN weapons against him and the 2nd when he tried to surprise stab her back after the first one. Izuku is far more accustomed at this point in the story and our profiles aren't very clear cut what arcs are covered for each key but since 5% Deku is only during the beginning so using a Deku that can go up to 20% to judge it seems baseless, at that point he can predict opponents faster than him without much issue.
Assuming that Himiko Toga stays around the same level of skill in Hand-to-Hand Combatant in all of her U.A Beginnings Saga Keys (That is to say, that she neither improved drastically or worsened drastically), then it could be said that Himiko Toga would be able to beat Ochaco and Tsu without breaking a sweat, since Eraserhead is definitively above his students and she's above him, right?

No. In the video, Himiko gets dodged by an injured Ochaco, disarmed, and pinned down. Does that mean that Ochaco is suddenly able to out-skill Eraserhead? No. I don't know where the logic came from to put Himiko Toga as "out-skilling" Eraser head, but Himiko Toga only "out-skilled" Eraserhead as much as Ochaco "out-skilled" Himiko Toga.

It doesn't even list that Ochaco did that in her profile.

Himiko Toga is able to get grabbed by Ochaco, who is far less faster and skilled than her. Sure, a person could argue that Himiko Toga was holding herself back since she knows she is far stronger than Ochaco, but then that leads me to my next point:
Firstly, she had a mission in that part which was find Bakugo and a set kill list which was on Izuku, dealing with Tsuyu and Ochako would have been a waste of her time and she is taken off guard by Ochako's sudden skill, in fact she does quickly take Tsuyu by surprise when she tries to jump away by pinning her to the tree with her knife. it should be noted that it was also a 2v1 something Toga had no real interest in taking part of.

Ochako had former training something Toga wasn't expecting from a U.A student, shes only seen her from the sports festival at that point so she expecting that same level of skill.

Our profiles list them as such, Toga could be outdated but I seriously doubt it given how often the profiles are updated, shes listed as higher speed and skill than Ochako.
Himiko Toga throws the fight.

I'm sure everyone here knows how Himiko acts around Izuku, but I'll give a little summary for anyone that doesn't: Canonically, Himiko Toga is madly in-love with Izuku. Like, Yandere type of love. Of course, by this time she doesn't actually have feelings for Izuku yet

but considering that she'll be cutting him...

And this crush develops fast. Like, within a few seconds fast. I'd bet that if Izuku's actually being beaten down, she'll be developing a crush on him based on how he looks. Himiko Toga went up against Ochaco and Tsu before seeing Izuku, so it is In-Character for her to mess around with her food (See the entire fight scene) Sure, she could spam Stealth Mastery, but at best, she'd only do it like twice because Vanguard Action Squad Himiko Toga only used it as a starting move and then just stayed in close-quarters-combat to fight.

Considering that Himiko Toga would largely be carefree and wouldn't actually use her Eraserhead levels of skill until she is provoked, Izuku pretty much catches her more often than not because Himiko Toga straight up wouldn't be using her speed advantage, as well as not knowing that Izuku can actually pin her down. It literally takes one grab. The chances will only increase as time goes on, especially at the point when Himiko Toga develops feelings for him. Hell, Izuku can even use Social Influencing on Himiko Toga while she's pinned down if she's actually struggling to get out.
well yes that well play into it, Toga with our ruleset is still going to try and win against Izuku and it'd only fuel her to see the boy she "loves" get more hurt by her. SBA clearly states with mindset that "In character, but will attempt to win the battle. " and "Each character will view their opponents as enemies", Toga is gonna see Izuku as someone who wants to harm her and she is still gonna attempt to win the fight. yes, her crush will play a factor and its something I thought about but Toga would be more fueled to see the boy she loves get more injured and shes aware of the strength that Deku has over here, he threw her off him quite easily during the Provisional Hero License fight and shes seen how strong Deku is, shes gonna play it safe.

Izuku could using his social influencing on Toga is unlikely, shes insane and driven by her love for harm, Deku has no idea who Toga is or what her story is unlike Shoto who was clearly stating what was wrong with him and why he wouldn't do something, Toga has no reason to hold back against Izuku when she knows "she wants to win" and "will view him as an enemy". shes used her stealth mastery on Izuku before and its taken him by surprise, she has no reason to not do the same here and just as Izuku could end the fight with ONE grab, She could end the fight with one good stab wound on a vital organ like his throat.
If Izuku is getting pressed enough, he can just destroy the forest area with his Air Manipulation and then Himiko Toga has to actually face him in close-quarters-combat.

(Unless it's somehow linked to his AP)
5% can't do that, its tied to what % of OFA hes using and 5% can't create the same kinda of air pressure that 20% and above can do. destroying the forest is a no go sadly

I still believe Toga has it given what our profiles give them IN those keys, 5% isn't uneventful he went up against Stain which is nothing to scoff at but that was with the help of others, this is a 1v1 where Toga has the environment and overall greater advantages to pull through. she'll want to see Deku hurt and since shes aware of how strong he is, she'll play it safe as i've said. not even helping that shes faster than 5% Izuku meaning she'll be able to dance around him if CQC comes into play
 
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She was able to dodge attacks from Eraser Head, twice to be specific. the one where she used his OWN weapons against him and the 2nd when he tried to surprise stab her back after the first one. Izuku is far more accustomed at this point in the story and our profiles aren't very clear cut what arcs are covered for each key but since 5% Deku is only during the beginning so using a Deku that can go up to 20% to judge it seems baseless, at that point he can predict opponents faster than him without much issue.

Firstly, she had a mission in that part which was find Bakugo and a set kill list which was on Izuku, dealing with Tsuyu and Ochako would have been a waste of her time and she is taken off guard by Ochako's sudden skill, in fact she does quickly take Tsuyu by surprise when she tries to jump away by pinning her to the tree with her knife. it should be noted that it was also a 2v1 something Toga had no real interest in taking part of.

Ochako had former training something Toga wasn't expecting from a U.A student, shes only seen her from the sports festival at that point so she expecting that same level of skill.

Our profiles list them as such, Toga could be outdated but I seriously doubt it given how often the profiles are updated, shes listed as higher speed and skill than Ochako.

well yes that well play into it, Toga with our ruleset is still going to try and win against Izuku and it'd only fuel her to see the boy she "loves" get more hurt by her. SBA clearly states with mindset that "In character, but will attempt to win the battle. " and "Each character will view their opponents as enemies", Toga is gonna see Izuku as someone who wants to harm her and she is still gonna attempt to win the fight. yes, her crush will play a factor and its something I thought about but Toga would be more fueled to see the boy she loves get more injured and shes aware of the strength that Deku has over here, he threw her off him quite easily during the Provisional Hero License fight and shes seen how strong Deku is, shes gonna play it safe.

Izuku could using his social influencing on Toga is unlikely, shes insane and driven by her love for harm, Deku has no idea who Toga is or what her story is unlike Shoto who was clearly stating what was wrong with him and why he wouldn't do something, Toga has no reason to hold back against Izuku when she knows "she wants to win" and "will view him as an enemy". shes used her stealth mastery on Izuku before and its taken him by surprise, she has no reason to not do the same here and just as Izuku could end the fight with ONE grab, She could end the fight with one good stab wound on a vital organ like his throat.

5% can't do that, its tied to what % of OFA hes using and 5% can't create the same kinda of air pressure that 20% and above can do. destroying the forest is a no go sadly

I still believe Toga has it given what our profiles give them IN those keys, 5% isn't uneventful he went up against Stain which is nothing to scoff at but that was with the help of others, this is a 1v1 where Toga has the environment and overall greater advantages to pull through. she'll want to see Deku hurt and since shes aware of how strong he is, she'll play it safe as i've said.
5% is everything up to his fight with Bakugo right before Overhaul arc. Deku by this point already has a showing of analytical prediction vs Gran Torino so he’s just start to predict Toga and catch her with a kick when she attempts to sneak him. That’s ignoring how his supernatural willpower will just let him take getting stabbed with no issue.

SBA Toga is focusing on cutting him up rather than killing him which means Deku has 100% more chances to counter her attacks than she does against him. Her only hopes are hit and run tactics which won’t work forever. One grab or throw and Toga is getting knocked out.

Sure, she could theoretically kill him by slashing his throat, assuming he doesn’t react fast enough. But again, her mindset won’t allow her to do that. Coupled with social influencing, Toga will be way too off her game to realistically kill Deku. She’s more likely to strike from the shadows a few times and eventually give away her position or go for a more lethal risky attack, just for Deku to counter or tank it.

She snuck up on Deku when he wasn’t going all out since he thought she was Camie. Against actual Toga and not having to worry about throwing a ball at her, he has a lot more room to keep his eyes trained and not let her leave his sight, especially since he knows about her ability to dip out of sight fast. Heck, doing that isn’t even really in character for her, as she’s far more prone to run straight at Deku and try to stab him a bunch. She never really uses her stealth outside a few times, especially against people that get to her emotionally.

Deku is also far more acrobatic than Toga mobility wise, as she cannot hit him if he starts bouncing without being at a severe disadvantage. She can throw knives but that’s just going to give her position away and Deku ez blocks them.

The entire prospect of her “outskilling” Eraser due to using his binds against him isn’t exactly a slam dunk since Eraser doesn’t have much combat feats in the first place. Toga in this fight is gonna have a similar mindset to what she had vs Ochako, which led to her getting dodged easily and pinned. If she makes a single mistake against Deku, he will knock her tf out in an instant with no hope of getting away.
 
5% is everything up to his fight with Bakugo right before Overhaul arc. Deku by this point already has a showing of analytical prediction vs Gran Torino so he’s just start to predict Toga and catch her with a kick when she attempts to sneak him. That’s ignoring how his supernatural willpower will just let him take getting stabbed with no issue.
Thank you for the clarification, switching to Deku FRA. our profiles aren't very clear tbh but if he has the knowledge to start predicting her sooner rather than later coupled with her personality and how she fights, Izuku should have no trouble getting that grab.
 
Didn't toga snuck up on deku on multiple occasions during the licence arc. And her stealth mastery was also shown to work on final war arc deku after she nabbed him. Toga speed advantage and stealth mastery would overwhelm him. And I doubt deku social Influencing would come into play unless it is a passive thing.
 
Didn't toga snuck up on deku on multiple occasions during the licence arc. And her stealth mastery was also shown to work on final war arc deku after she nabbed him. Toga speed advantage and stealth mastery would overwhelm him. And I doubt deku social Influencing would come into play unless it is a passive thing.
Yes, but that was when he wasn’t aware of what she was capable of and she wasn’t seeking to stab him/was on a mission to talk. She was fully in stealth mode, and even then he could react to her. In this scenario, she’s coming at Deku with the intent to stab the heck out of him, and will deliberately not kill him for that purpose. Deku is going to actively talk to Toga during this, which will make her emotionally unstable enough to be less careful, as seen with Curious.

Toga doesn’t spam stealth outside of the license exam where she was pretending to be Camie. If she’s fighting Deku straight up, she’s just going to try stabbing and talking to him. Her stealth and speed are useful but don’t carry her when Deku inevitably gets used to it and doesn’t have the added difficulty of throwing a ball at her. Eventually just adapts or tanks a stab to restrain and knock her unconscious.
 
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