Itachi, Itachi's brother and Sai Upgrade

[Apollonir.Scale]

Itachi

Itachi and Sasuke's fight is called the strongest ultimate fight. This should increase Itachi and Sasuke's power above Deidara's self-destruct attack. Because this fight took place before Itachi vs Deidara.

Considering that Itachi is much stronger than the Sannin who are 6-C, it wouldn't be an exaggeration for Itachi to be Low 6-B+ or at least Low 6-B+ with Susanoo.

In this case, you may say that Hebi Sasuke also rises and the scale of the series won't increase too much. Sasuke gets stronger as he gets angrier. Considering his anger towards Itachi, he will be much stronger in the fight against him than he was when he fought against Deidara. Even if you don't agree with Hebi Sasuke>Jiraiya, there is no anti-feat for Final Hebi Sasuke>Jiraiya. I am giving an example through Jiraiya. Because there was also the Jiraiya vs Pain fight before Itachi and Sasuke's fight. I wanted to state that possible counter-arguments will probably come from here. Taka Sasuke can be considered weaker than Final Hebi Sasuke. Because Orochimaru's seal is gone and his hatred towards Itachi is not in this form. This hatred turned into hatred towards Konoha. But Taka Sasuke only fought Killer Bee and since Bee has nothing to do with Konoha, there is nothing to show that he got a rage amp against him. Rage amp Sasuke fighting Danzo and Sage Naruto who is equal to him can rise. But since Raikage Ay doesn't have the rage against Danzo, Ay shouldn't scale to Danzo fight Sasuke.

SAI

Shikamaru puts himself forward as the person who will help Naruto since Sasuke and Sai are not. Sasuke is already equal to Naruto in power, we know that. Mentioning Sai makes Sai stronger than most characters. Since Kakashi and Tsunade are retired and Shikamaru is a character who is not in the foreground with battles, this statement does not include them. But at least we can use this to say Sai>Choji, Kiba, Tenten, Lee and Konohamaru. Because he never mentioned them, let alone suggested them to fight Code with Naruto. The only strong and active ninjas that came to his mind were Sasuke and Sai.

Upgrade proposal 1: Let's scale from Konohamaru's physical AP and raise Sai to 6-C, possibly Low 6-B.

Upgrade proposal 2: Let's say Sai>Choji>Chocho and get Sai to 6-A. Choji's Adult form and scaling are not available on his profile. But since she is the leader of the clan and should be at least stronger than her daughter, she should go up to 6-A. She already has the same technique as her daughter and they both get 100x amp.

 

[Damage3245]

Itachi and Sasuke's fight is called the strongest ultimate fight. This should increase Itachi and Sasuke's power above Deidara's self-destruct attack. Because this fight took place before Itachi vs Deidara.

This reasoning doesn't make any sense to me....

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Well I think the Itachi parts somewhat make sense, it's a more grander fight that's the alternative to naruto and pain, it would be a bit weird if itachi didnt outscale the members below him but the issue is that's not hyped up for susano, its for the normal clashes and genjutsu and the normal clashes shouldnt be > deidaras strongest powers

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

This reasoning doesn't make any sense to me....

The skills in a fight called the ultimate fight should also be worthy of the ultimate fight expression. Deidara's self-detonation technique is also a technique that can be applied in a fight. Even if it is not measured by physical stats, why wouldn't Itachi Susanoo>Deidara C0?

 

[Damage3245]

The skills in a fight called the ultimate fight should also be worthy of the ultimate fight expression. Deidara's self-detonation technique is also a technique that can be applied in a fight. Even if it is not measured by physical stats, why wouldn't Itachi Susanoo>Deidara C0?

How is that a comparison of AP? And why would it specifically be referencing Itachi's Susano'o which isn't shown in the panels used or mentioned in the description given?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

How is that a comparison of AP? And why would it specifically be referencing Itachi's Susano'o which isn't shown in the panels used or mentioned in the description given?

Chakra avatars like Susanoo have higher AP than their user. Deidara's attack also has AP and in the fight called the Ultimate Fight, there are also high level techniques like Kirin and Susanoo. Kirin and Susanoo both have AP higher than the user's physical AP.

 

[Damage3245]

Chakra avatars like Susanoo have higher AP than their user. Deidara's attack also has AP and in the fight called the Ultimate Fight, there are also high level techniques like Kirin and Susanoo. Kirin and Susanoo both have AP higher than the user's physical AP.

Being called the "Ultimate Fight" is not an AP statement.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Being called the "Ultimate Fight" is not an AP statement.

There are also AP content attacks in the Final Fight.

Also, what do you think about the Sai episode?

 

[Damage3245]

Also, what do you think about the Sai episode?

I'll need to reread those chapters to get the context. Which chapter was the statement made?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

unfortunately ultimately means being or happening at the end of a process; final.

it does not necessitate power, perhaps you may find some other interpretation via raws

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The raws talk about a battle of the highest order/level/peak
凶刃が舞い、 剣戟を交わしながらも、同時に幻術をも繰り出す両者。 最高峰の戦いが展開される。
The deadly blades danced as the two exchanged sword strikes while simultaneously unleashing genjutsu. A battle at the highest level unfolded.

 

[Nierre]

disagree for Damage's reasoning

Mentioning Sai makes Sai stronger than most characters. Since Kakashi and Tsunade are retired and Shikamaru is a character who is not in the foreground with battles, this statement does not include them. But at least we can use this to say Sai>Choji, Kiba, Tenten, Lee and Konohamaru. Because he never mentioned them, let alone suggested them to fight Code with Naruto. The only strong and active ninjas that came to his mind were Sasuke and Sai.

Upgrade proposal 1: Let's scale from Konohamaru's physical AP and raise Sai to 6-C, possibly Low 6-B.

Upgrade proposal 2: Let's say Sai>Choji>Chocho and get Sai to 6-A. Choji's Adult form and scaling are not available on his profile. But since she is the leader of the clan and should be at least stronger than her daughter, she should go up to 6-A. She already has the same technique as her daughter and they both get 100x amp.

also this argument respectfully is really.. bad. Sai is meant to be Naruto's "bodyguard" as the head of the Anbu, he's supposed to be by Naruto's side, especially on a dangerous mission . Mentioning Sai does not put him anywhere stronger than "most characters". Not only that but Sai in the Sumire Arc implies himself to being inferior to Choji when they were trying to restrain Nue, so he in no way scales above him. so I just disagree with this proposal entirely

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The raws talk about a battle of the highest order/level/peak
凶刃が舞い、 剣戟を交わしながらも、同時に幻術をも繰り出す両者。 最高峰の戦いが展開される。
The deadly blades danced as the two exchanged sword strikes while simultaneously unleashing genjutsu. A battle at the highest level unfolded.

it says highest peak because its the best fight scene in the manga

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[Testarossa002]

In addition to what Nierre said, Sai, Naruto, Sasuke, and Shikamaru were the only ones privy to the whole Code/Amado stuff. It stands to reason that they're the only ones with the appropriate "clearance" to fight
And not necessarily because they were the strongest people available (Naruto and Sasuke are but that's beside the point)
There's no logical/narrative reason for Sai to suddenly leapfrog powerhouses like Sakura, Lee, and Choji

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

also this argument respectfully is really.. bad. Sai is meant to be Naruto's "bodyguard" as the head of the Anbu, he's supposed to be by Naruto's side, especially on a dangerous mission . Mentioning Sai does not put him anywhere stronger than "most characters". Not only that but Sai in the Sumire Arc implies himself to being inferior to Choji when they were trying to restrain Nue, so he in no way scales above him. so I just disagree with this proposal entirely

I forgot that Sai is supposed to protect Naruto because he's an anbu. I haven't watched the Nue arc either.

So can we at least upgrade Choji?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I'll need to reread those chapters to get the context. Which chapter was the statement made?

64

 

[Damage3245]

I forgot that Sai is supposed to protect Naruto because he's an anbu. I haven't watched the Nue arc either.

So can we at least upgrade Choji?

There is no reason that I can see to upgrade Choji.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

There is no reason that I can see to upgrade Choji.

Choji is a jonin. Will he be weaker than his daughter who is at the genin rank?

Even for Boruto's era, genin rank is below Chunin and Jonin.

 

[Damage3245]

Choji is a jonin. Will he be weaker than his daughter who is at the genin rank?

Even for Boruto's era, genin rank is below Chunin and Jonin.

Why not? Naruto was a mere Genin for most of the series.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Why not? Naruto was a mere Genin for most of the series.

Naruto, Sasuke and Kabuto were the exceptions. They never took the exam again so they couldn't become chunin. And in Hiruzen's era, winning matches didn't automatically lead to chunin promotion. In Boruto's era, Sarada defeating Cho Cho was enough.

In the special manga chapter of Mirai Sarutobi, Shikamaru states that even ordinary Bandits pose a problem for Genin.

 

[Damage3245]

Naruto, Sasuke and Kabuto were the exceptions. They never took the exam again so they couldn't become chunin. And in Hiruzen's era, winning matches didn't automatically lead to chunin promotion. In Boruto's era, Sarada defeating Cho Cho was enough.

In the special manga chapter of Mirai Sarutobi, Shikamaru states that even ordinary Bandits pose a problem for Genin.

There is no reason to think that Cho Cho is an ordinary Genin.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

There is no reason to think that Cho Cho is an ordinary Genin.

Choji has the same technique when he is in balance. Cho Cho's current rating also comes from his Butterfly mode and Choji has the same form. Also, Choji is the leader of the clan.

So what you are opposing right now is like saying that Metal Lee should be stronger than Gate 1 and Rock Lee who taught him Gate 1. There is no indication that these characters have surpassed their fathers yet. They may have surpassed their age but not their current state.

 

[Nierre]

I forgot that Sai is supposed to protect Naruto because he's an anbu. I haven't watched the Nue arc either.

So can we at least upgrade Choji?

No.

 

[Nierre]

Naruto, Sasuke and Kabuto were the exceptions. They never took the exam again so they couldn't become chunin. And in Hiruzen's era, winning matches didn't automatically lead to chunin promotion. In Boruto's era, Sarada defeating Cho Cho was enough.

In the special manga chapter of Mirai Sarutobi, Shikamaru states that even ordinary Bandits pose a problem for Genin.

Team 7 has already fought and defeated Jounin level characters as far back as the MItsuki Rescue Arc. And even fought characters such as Ao, and even Jugo who is above the average Jounin. What you're proposing here is circular.

These Genin/Chunin, can just be FAR above their weight class (and I mean, they are. That's pretty much what Part 1 has been trying to tell us from the very beginning. You have Academy kids reaching Chunin level's of skill by Kakashi 's word and by the first Chunin exams, Boruto having 3 elemental ninjutsus, something only Jounin's are hyped to be capable of doing as well as the Movie Novel outright saying his skills are of a Jounin level as well etc etc. They just don't have the experience to back it up most times like against Deepa, and Kakashi where he outright states that Boruto is incredibly skilled, he needs conviction).

 

[Nierre]

Also, Choji is the leader of the clan.

I didn't mean to send my second post so early (I miss locked) so excuse me for triple posting, but just because he's the clan leader doesn't automatically put him above her. Chocho doesn't even have 10% of the battlefield experience that her dad has. She doesn't have leadership qualities that her dad (apparently) has. There's still a whole lot that she has to learn to become the clan leader. It's similar to Blank Period Naruto being the strongest in the village, but still Tsunade choosing Kakashi before Naruto because of that MASSIVE experience gap.

 

[Testarossa002]

The genins in Naruto have like a million lightning dodging feat when the entirety of Naruto is being carried by a single feat.
Unless there's a very concrete reason to scale/backscale, people shouldn't scale based off rank alone.