Issues Regarding Vaporization

[Flashlight237]

Okay, so many calculation revisions are happening here as of late, most recently one concerning the way we handle explosions. However, one I should talk about is vaporization. You see, we had various vaporization feats over the years, and they had the same issue where the material would basically stick around. I even went off this logic myself: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Common_Feat:_Vaporizing_a_Human

The thing is when it comes to vaporization, the thing about gasses is, once a material is vaporized, depending on whether it is contained or not, the resulting gas would just, you know, leave. We can't exactly expect water to hit 1800 °C after it becomes a gas and leaves, can we?

Another issue I wanna point out is the whole smoke=vaporization or steam=vaporization thing. I wanna get this out of the way and say that that assumption is very faulty. For one, rocks have this thing called "moisture content", and we have a study on the shear strength of andesite that included moisture content: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1674775521001190

As such, the steam coming from a ruck should be considered the moisture content leaving the rocks, NOT the rocks being vaporized. Also, if you look at videos on lava, which is liquid rock, you can very much notice that steam isn't coming out of the lava:



This is just one example out of many videos on Youtube that show lava in action. Also, nobody even tried to boil rocks. I tried looking for values on the enthalpy of vaporization on rocks or even the boiling point of rocks and got no reliable results on either topic, which should mean that nobody tried to reliably figure out the boiling point of rocks. We don't exactly know what "rock gas" looks like.

I should also point out that the way the edges of the destruction look should also be accounted for when it comes to judging whether something is considered vaporization or not. For example, in this feat I calc'd (and stood my ground on because I've learned not to buy the smoke=vaporization argument), you can notice that the crater and the edges of the rocks show no signs of heating, plus the edges remained jagged: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...es:_Dick_Dastardly_Blows_a_Hole_in_the_Ground

Here, however, you can see a genuine example of vaporization: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogark-Carioca/Kronk's_disintegration_cannon

There are very noticeable signs of heat and the edges are smooth. See, when something heats up, it melts and then vaporized, and as the liquid form of a material would be incapable of having the shape of any solid, the gaseous form shouldn't have the shape of a solid either. This lack of form allows the edges of the destruction to be smooth as a result.

As such, I feel we should get a little stricter on what should qualify as vaporization and what shouldn't, plus the inner workings of vaporization. How? I wouldn't know, as I feel the idea is better discussed than winged. So yeah, hope this works.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Mr. Bambu @Therefir @Ugarik @DMUA @Damage3245 @TheRustyOne @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @Wokistan @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Agnaa @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa @SeijiSetto @SunDaGamer

What do you think about this?

 

[DontTalkDT]

The thing is when it comes to vaporization, the thing about gasses is, once a material is vaporized, depending on whether it is contained or not, the resulting gas would just, you know, leave. We can't exactly expect water to hit 1800 °C after it becomes a gas and leaves, can we?

Usually the feats we calculate don't deal with gradually boiling something on a stove.
In an explosion stuff has no time to cleanly separate.

Another issue I wanna point out is the whole smoke=vaporization

Smoke is commonly defined as a mixture of a solid and a gas so no idea where that notion would ever even have come from.

I should also point out that the way the edges of the destruction look should also be accounted for when it comes to judging whether something is considered vaporization or not. For example, in this feat I calc'd (and stood my ground on because I've learned not to buy the smoke=vaporization argument), you can notice that the crater and the edges of the rocks show no signs of heating, plus the edges remained jagged: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...es:_Dick_Dastardly_Blows_a_Hole_in_the_Ground

Here, however, you can see a genuine example of vaporization: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogark-Carioca/Kronk's_disintegration_cannon

There are very noticeable signs of heat and the edges are smooth. See, when something heats up, it melts and then vaporized, and as the liquid form of a material would be incapable of having the shape of any solid, the gaseous form shouldn't have the shape of a solid either. This lack of form allows the edges of the destruction to be smooth as a result.

Rapid vaporzation results in exposion, which can easily result in ragged edges.

Ultimately vaporization is a case-by-case thing. If a hole can just be the result of a rock having flown some distant away than the estimation should of course go for the corresponding low-end. But I feel like that was already a standard.

 

[Flashlight237]

Rapid vaporzation results in exposion

Yeah, no. There's a lot to unpack with when it comes to explosions, but I can certainly tell you that a TNT explosion, for example, has to do with TNT's reactivity. That's not mentioning that this ignores the two other factors of explosives: shock/impact and friction. Also, explosions are based on the rate of combustion if we're talking about heat alone:

An explosive is classified as a low or high explosive according to its rate of combustion: low explosives burn rapidly (or deflagrate), while high explosives detonate. While these definitions are distinct, the problem of precisely measuring rapid decomposition makes practical classification of explosives difficult. For a reaction to be classified as a detonation, as opposed to just a deflagration, the propagation of the reaction shockwave through the material being testing must be faster than the speed of sound through that material.

Saying that explosives vaporize is like saying wood vaporizes (it really doesn't; it just combusts). You're not figuring out when a material becomes a gas; you're seeing if it's flammable.

Smoke is commonly defined as a mixture of a solid and a gas so no idea where that notion would ever even have come from.

That only makes the smoke=vaporization assumption more faulty! There's solid material in there; why are you guys calling that a vapor?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, no. There's a lot to unpack with when it comes to explosions, but I can certainly tell you that a TNT explosion, for example, has to do with TNT's reactivity. That's not mentioning that this ignores the two other factors of explosives: shock/impact and friction. Also, explosions are based on the rate of combustion if we're talking about heat alone:

Saying that explosives vaporize is like saying wood vaporizes (it really doesn't; it just combusts). You're not figuring out when a material becomes a gas; you're seeing if it's flammable.

I have no idea why you talk about chemical explosives. What I'm talking about are essentially steam explosions. (also see this and this) An explosion requires no chemical reaction of any kind.
Fundamentally the ideal gas law dictates that an increase in temperature needs to correspond to an increase in volume, pressure or both. Meaning, if you heat something rapidly it will expand outwards with extreme speed and pressure corresponding to the rapid temperature increase. That's what an explosion is. The fact that materials typically increase a lot in volume while doing phase change into a gas just increases that effect.
See rapid phase transition explosion.

That only makes the smoke=vaporization assumption more faulty! There's solid material in there; why are you guys calling that a vapor?

Yeah... that's my point. I don't think we ever had a standard that took smoke as evidence for vaporization. We only take steam as evidence, as that signals that parts were actually vaporized.

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah... that's my point. I don't think we ever had a standard that took smoke as evidence for vaporization. We only take steam as evidence, as that signals that parts were actually vaporized.

I think he's referring to the instances where people do vap value because it looks like smoke/vap.

There are very noticeable signs of heat and the edges are smooth. See, when something heats up, it melts and then vaporized, and as the liquid form of a material would be incapable of having the shape of any solid, the gaseous form shouldn't have the shape of a solid either. This lack of form allows the edges of the destruction to be smooth as a result.

I'm confused about the gaseous form thing, what do you mean shouldn't have a shape of a solid? And you showed animated feats, is there any feats in manga that show vaporization clearly I can go off?

 

[Flashlight237]

Yeah... that's my point. I don't think we ever had a standard that took smoke as evidence for vaporization. We only take steam as evidence, as that signals that parts were actually vaporized.

Then why do people consider smoke as vape like me and Arkenis were trying to point out?:

I think he's referring to the instances where people do vap value because it looks like smoke/vap.

Even then, steam is by dictionary definition water vapor, so why assume the rock is vaporized just because the water contained in the rock was?

I'm confused about the gaseous form thing, what do you mean shouldn't have a shape of a solid? And you showed animated feats, is there any feats in manga that show vaporization clearly I can go off?

Err... Manga and animations are drawings. The only difference is manga is a still image in the style of a comic book.

 

[Arkenis]

Err... Manga and animations are drawings. The only difference is manga is a still image in the style of a comic book.

I know, I'm asking for depiction of vap in manga.