Issue with qualitative superiority in God of War (downgrade)

[Donatien]

VsWiki standards don't dictate how fiction works. Qualitative superiority or uncomfortable infinite are not words used by fiction, especially a verse like GoW which isn't about mathematical powerscaling mumbo jumbo. Conch of Heimdal is as ******** as it gets.

As long as you have extra dimensions and power associated with it. It's enough for low1C.

What you're saying goes both ways. If we arent going to apply standards that require uncountably infinite superiority, we shouldnt apply this tiering label that uses uncountably infinite superiority in the first place to GOW either. "Fiction doesnt use this stuff" isnt an excuse, if fiction doesnt use that stuff often, then that just means fiction doesnt get to Low 1-C often. Additionally, there are many ways to establish uncountably infinite superiority without actually using these terms. For example, having extended extra dimensions, valid R>F, etc. You can establish it logically as well, not just with direct terminology.

It's absolutely idiotic to slap uncountably infinite superiority (which is literally all that Low 1-C is) on something that doesnt have uncountably infinite superiority.

If GOW doesnt use mathematical scaling, then dont apply mathematical scaling to it.

 

[Georredannea15]

Author statements and such secondary canon statements are valid only if they are supported or mentioned in the verse.

The statement of higher existence and the inability of 4-dimensional beings to can't interact with Athena, as well as transcending infinite 4D universes and evolving to a higher plane of existence, are contexts that show that higher existence is actually higher-dimensional existence, and these are supported by achievements in the verse. In short, if the statements contradict in the verse, we do not accept them.

Let's see what the author means when he says "higher existence" and "higher plane".

Cory Barlog calls the realm Athena ascends to the "higher plane of existence" and is a higher dimensional plane of existence with these extra contexts.

And when Athena ascended into this realm, her spiritual, mental, and physical existence, in short, her entire dimensional existence, was elevated to the same level as this higher dimensional plane/realm.

This was the reason Athena was corrupt. When Athena evolves into higher existence, she expresses that she sees all reality and has all the power in this realm thanks to UES. This is another reason for Athena's corruption.

The statement "power and existence that transcends all beings in the Greek realm" and "higher existence" were not distinguished by Cory Barlog, on the contrary, Barlog states that the reason for this is Athena's ascending to the higher plane of existence, in short, higher-dimensional existence, and that is why she degenerates.

Also, given Mori's case, the only context was that he simply evolved to the intersection of space-time, we don't see the consequences of equating existence there like Athena, or we can't see any more context behind it. This is exactly what Mori lacks.

Kratos is deceived by Athena's appearance and tells her that she looks like an Olympian, but Athena expresses that the view of her deceptive by her very existence. Also, a higher dimensional being may be human sized, which doesn't mean it doesn't have an extra axis.

We also see higher existence in the comic, this time depicted as a space that encompasses all of Egypt and beyond.

Edit: The reason why the realm is higher dimensional is that the phrase "higher plane of existence" actually transcends the infinite 4D realms and the mind, soul and body,4 dimensional beings cannot perceive and reach this realm, which is a higher plane of existence.

And Athena, after ascending to this realm, transcended all beings in the lower plane and infinite 4-D worlds like "higher existence", and ascended to the plane of existence that they cannot reach and reason with, and her power has accordingly increased both from the higher dimensional realm and because of her existence. Because of UES bullshit.

To explain the UES, of a character in GoW has a 5 dimensional existence or is powered by the 5 dimensional realm, their mental, spiritual, magical and physical power will scale fully into this realm.

Also, Kratos has no trouble interacting with beings that have a 4-dimensional existence, but he can never interact with the ascended Athena in pre-hope form.

To sum it all up ;

- The statement "higher plane of existence" in the series is actually a realm that completely transcends lower planes and infinite 4D structures as well as 4D beings, making interaction and perception impossible. No being and power on the lower plane (including 4-D beings) can't sense, interact or access this realm.

- When Athena ascended here, not only did her existence ascend to this plane, but her power also scaled to this realm thanks to the UES, because it was here that she gained her power and equated her completely existence with here.

- In Fiction, you can have a higher dimensional existence, in short, have an additional axis and be human-sized.(like a 4 dimensional cube the size of a standard cube...)
However, despite this, this confusion is cleared up in the verse and states that the appearance of Athena is a deception according to existence.

- The higher existence we see in the comic spans the entire Egypt realm and is completely beyond it. This is another proof of a higher dimensional plane of existence.
A small addition to encompass not the entire egyptian realm, also all the mythologies and realms found in GoW, plus a higher existence that completely transcends them.

I guess you don't know, but everything you've said has been discussed over at least 2 or 3 revisions, and people knowledgeable about Tier 1 have confirmed the existence of higher existence and Athena.

It's not the statement that matters, it's the context behind it and the feats that support them. And GoW has a lot of them.

I would also like to point out that for a verse to take a geometrical scale, mathematical expressions are not always needed because it's context and feats that matter.

Or, there is no need for statement like "uncountable infinite superiority" directly, as I explained above, there is an ontological superiority for higher existence. That's enough, we have never and will never scale with "direct" statements, always looking at the context and feats behind it.

Also, a space with a higher spatial dimension is already ontologically, i.e., qualitatively superior to the lower plane, someone who has a scale to it qualifies for Low 1-C or Tier 1.
@ImmortalDread First of all, I didn't mean to make this comment specifically against you, but I apologize if there is any misunderstanding and I now present my arguments to the OP in general

 

[KLOL506]

What you're saying goes both ways. If we arent going to apply standards that require uncountably infinite superiority, we shouldnt apply this tiering label that uses uncountably infinite superiority in the first place to GOW either. "Fiction doesnt use this stuff" isnt an excuse, if fiction doesnt use that stuff often, then that just means fiction doesnt get to Low 1-C often. Additionally, there are many ways to establish uncountably infinite superiority without actually using these terms. For example, having extended extra dimensions, valid R>F, etc. You can establish it logically as well, not just with direct terminology.

It's absolutely idiotic to slap uncountably infinite superiority (which is literally all that Low 1-C is) on something that doesnt have uncountably infinite superiority.

If GOW doesnt use mathematical scaling, then dont apply mathematical scaling to it.

Mathematics is just one explanation for the tier. We aren't using it in the first place, nor do we need to.

The extra dimensions is already established and so is the power, plus R>F isn't worth its salt anymore without other supporting factors.

 

[Donatien]

Gilver has already made my stance on this clear. Its an an argument based entirely on the semantics of the phrase and not the context surrounding it, and nothing that wasn't already brought up in the initial downgrade. Disagree of course.

There is literally zero "context" supporting the interpretation of higher dimensionality or Low 1-C superiority. The lack of ability to perceive Athena was brought up, but all this is could just be something along the lines of intangibility or even enhanced intangibility. Anything more is just a groundless claim which has no proof for it being the case rather than some form of intangibility.

 

[Planck69]

@Donatien

What does "mathematical scaling" even mean here? The tiering system is math based and what we use to rate works of fiction according to collective agreement about their tier.

Saying that a verse doesn't use mathematical scaling is asinine when that's not even a criterion for it to be rated at any level in particular. This goes for almost every single work of fiction on this site not written by a mathematician.

The more I read the base argument the more it looks like a case of someone being baffled that a verse isn't written like a battleboarding fever dream.

 

[Donatien]

Mathematics is just one explanation for the tier. We aren't using it in the first place, nor do we need to.

The extra dimensions is already established and so is the power, plus R>F isn't worth its salt anymore without other supporting factors.

The extra dimensions are not established. Stop begging the question. Literally nothing in these scans mention dimensionality, nor does the context indicate higher dimensionality. Intangibility is a sufficient explanation for the lack of ability to perceive Athena, and it makes less assumptions/is more parsimonious than assuming shes just straight up higher dimensional.

@Donatien

What does "mathematical scaling" even mean here? The tiering system is math based and what we use to rate works of fiction according to collective agreement about their tier.

Saying that a verse doesn't use mathematical scaling is asinine when that's not even a criterion for it to be rated at any level in particular. This goes for almost every single work of fiction on this site not written by a mathematician.

The more I read the base argument the more it looks like a case of someone being baffled that a verse isn't written like a battleboarding fever dream.

I wasnt the one who made that point up. Thank Gilver for that. I quote "Qualitative superiority or uncomfortable infinite are not words used by fiction, especially a verse like GoW which isn't about mathematical powerscaling mumbo jumbo"

The point of my message was to show how bad of an argument it was despite many of you agreeing with him and pointing to his argument as basis for your disagreement with my position on this topic

And by the way, the "base argument" is literally just "here are the standards for this tier, GOW doesnt meet this tier, so we shouldnt give GOW this tier."

 

[Donatien]

@Donatien

What does "mathematical scaling" even mean here? The tiering system is math based and what we use to rate works of fiction according to collective agreement about their tier.

Saying that a verse doesn't use mathematical scaling is asinine when that's not even a criterion for it to be rated at any level in particular. This goes for almost every single work of fiction on this site not written by a mathematician.

The more I read the base argument the more it looks like a case of someone being baffled that a verse isn't written like a battleboarding fever dream.

I wasnt the one who made that point up. Thank Gilver for that. I quote "Qualitative superiority or uncomfortable infinite are not words used by fiction, especially a verse like GoW which isn't about mathematical powerscaling mumbo jumbo"

The point of my message was to show how bad of an argument it was despite many of you agreeing with him and pointing to his argument as basis for your disagreement with my position on this topic

And by the way, the "base argument" is literally just "here are the standards for this tier, GOW doesnt meet this tier, so we shouldnt give GOW this tier."

 

[KLOL506]

The extra dimensions are not established. Stop begging the question. Literally nothing in these scans mention dimensionality, nor does the context indicate higher dimensionality. Intangibility is a sufficient explanation for the lack of ability to perceive Athena, and it makes less assumptions/is more parsimonious than assuming shes just straight up higher dimensional.

Way to ignore the "transcendence and higher plane of existence" statements and the context and feats behind it I suppose.

- The higher existence we see in the comic spans the entire Egypt realm and is completely beyond it. This is another proof of a higher dimensional plane of existence.
A small addition to encompass not the entire egyptian realm, also all the mythologies and realms found in GoW, plus a higher existence that completely transcends them.

Georr also literally mentioned this.

 

[Planck69]

I wasnt the one who made that point up. Thank Gilver for that. I quote "Qualitative superiority or uncomfortable infinite are not words used by fiction, especially a verse like GoW which isn't about mathematical powerscaling mumbo jumbo"

The point of my message was to show how bad of an argument it was despite many of you agreeing with him and pointing to his argument as basis for your disagreement with my position on this topic

And by the way, the "base argument" is literally just "here are the standards for this tier, GOW doesnt meet this tier, so we shouldnt give GOW this tier."

I fail to see the contradiction. A verse not waxing poetic about dimensionality in specific and official terms doesn't dictate its tier whatsoever. So, my initial standpoint hasn't really changed.



But this is a senseless back-and-forth anyway, that seems to assume Athena being intangible and unable to be sensed is a core tenet of her tiering. I'm not that interested in an unending game of bickering so I'll just wait and see what the other staff have to say.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. A higher realm that is more powerful than a lower realm is not, by itself, enough to assume that the higher realm is infinitely more powerful than the lower realm, rather than some other degree of more powerful. If the gods were, say, 100x more powerful, that wouldn't be Qualitative Superiority.

This thread got very messy very fast, so I am not sure what the main counterpoints are. If someone could point out which post has the best summary of the argument for interpreting this as QS, that would be helpful.

 

[Donatien]

Way to ignore the "transcendence and higher plane of existence" statements and the context and feats behind it I suppose.

"Transcendence" and "higher plane of existence" dont mean jack when it comes to higher dimensions. They dont indicate higher dimensionality at all. This isnt just my opinion either, this is made clear in the wiki.

And neither does the context. As I mentioned earlier, Kratos's inability to perceive Athena properly can reasonably be explained by intangibility as opposed to higher dimensionality. The former explanation also makes less assumptions/is more parsimonious and is thus preferable due to Occam's Razor.

 

[Georredannea15]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. A higher realm that is more powerful than a lower realm is not, by itself, enough to assume that the higher realm is infinitely more powerful than the lower realm, rather than some other degree of more powerful. If the gods were, say, 100x more powerful, that wouldn't be Qualitative Superiority.

This thread got very messy very fast, so I am not sure what the main counterpoints are. If someone could point out which post has the best summary of the argument for interpreting this as QS, that would be helpful.

- The statement "higher plane of existence" in the series is actually a realm that completely transcends lower planes and infinite 4D structures as well as 4D beings, making interaction and perception impossible. No being and power on the lower plane (including 4-D beings) can't sense, interact or access this realm.

- When Athena ascended here, not only did her existence ascend to this plane, but her power also scaled to this realm thanks to the UES, because it was here that she gained her power and equated her completely existence with here.

- In Fiction, you can have a higher dimensional existence, in short, have an additional axis and be human-sized.(like a 4 dimensional cube the size of a standard cube...)
However, despite this, this confusion is cleared up in the verse and states that the appearance of Athena is a deception according to existence.

- The higher existence we see in the comic spans the entire Egypt realm and is completely beyond it. This is another proof of a higher dimensional plane of existence.
A small addition to encompass not the entire egyptian realm, also all the mythologies and realms found in GoW, plus a higher existence that completely transcends them.

I guess you don't know, but everything you've said has been discussed over at least 2 or 3 revisions, and people knowledgeable about Tier 1 have confirmed the existence of higher existence and Athena.

These are in short.

They are also supported by the phrases "transcendence infinite 4D worlds and beings" and "higher plane of existence", as well as supporting them with feats.

 

[KLOL506]

Already discussed this ad nauseam but much like Planck I can't be bothered to deal with this kind of back-and-forth.

We'll just wait for Gilver and Tanin to post their responses and then staff can give further votes.

 

[Donatien]

I fail to see the contradiction. A verse not waxing poetic about dimensionality in specific and official terms doesn't dictate its tier whatsoever. So, my initial standpoint hasn't really changed.

This isnt a matter of waxing poetic or using official terms, it's a matter of the verse not meeting the standards in any way, shape or form at all.

But this is a senseless back-and-forth anyway, that seems to assume Athena being intangible and unable to be sensed is a core tenet of her tiering. I'm not that interested in an unending game of bickering so I'll just wait and see what the other staff have to say.

That is literally the entirety of the "context" argument you point to. If I'm mistaken, could you please refer to the post that actually clarifies how the context indicates Low 1-C?

 

[Deagonx]

- The statement "higher plane of existence" in the series is actually a realm that completely transcends lower planes and infinite 4D structures as well as 4D beings, making interaction and perception impossible. No being and power on the lower plane (including 4-D beings) can't sense, interact or access this realm.

In terms of proving that this realm is infinitely more powerful than the lower realm, this does not get us very far. An inability to interact with a higher realm does not necessarily mean it's infinitely more powerful.

- When Athena ascended here, not only did her existence ascend to this plane, but her power also scaled to this realm thanks to the UES, because it was here that she gained her power and equated her completely existence with here.

- In Fiction, you can have a higher dimensional existence, in short, have an additional axis and be human-sized.(like a 4 dimensional cube the size of a standard cube...)
However, despite this, this confusion is cleared up in the verse and states that the appearance of Athena is a deception according to existence.

This section is not worded very well, I am not sure on what it's trying to communicate other than that Athena's power rose when she ascended to the higher plane.

I'm not disputing that it's a higher or more powerful realm, I am just trying to understand why the conclusion was drawn that the realm is infinitely more powerful rather than something else.

 

[KLOL506]

In terms of proving that this realm is infinitely more powerful than the lower realm, this does not get us very far. An inability to interact with a higher realm does not necessarily mean it's infinitely more powerful.


This section is not worded very well, I am not sure on what it's trying to communicate other than that Athena's power rose when she ascended to the higher plane.

I'm not disputing that it's a higher or more powerful realm, I am just trying to understand why the conclusion was drawn that the realm is infinitely more powerful rather than something else.

@Planck69

 

[Donatien]

Apparently another point that was brought up was that this higher plane encompasses infinite 4d spaces. However, this doesnt indicate a higher level of infinity. An infinite set can encompass a set without being on a higher level of infinity. One of the core parts of being an infinite set is that it has subsets (which it encompasses) of the same cardinality as it.

In short, if you wanna skip the math stuff, transcending infinite 4D universes does not indicate 5d.

 

[KLOL506]

Apparently another point that was brought up was that this higher plane encompasses infinite 4d spaces. However, this doesnt indicate a higher level of infinity. An infinite set can encompass a set without being on a higher level of infinity. One of the core parts of being an infinite set is that it has subsets (which it encompasses) of the same cardinality as it.

In short, if you wanna skip the math stuff, transcending infinite 4D universes does not indicate 5d.

That shit isn't for this thread.

 

[Georredannea15]

Neither of those things indicate 5d as I've explained right above

But that is not the case here. Anyway, whether this was an ontological superiority was something that was debated over the course of 2 or 3 revisions. And Tier 1 experts agreed on this. But I have no idea why it's still being discussed.

 

[Deagonx]

I've removed the unauthorized comments. Everyone keep in mind that this is a staff only discussion, and regular members can only post several times with Bureaucrat approval, not regular staff approval which is only for one post. Let the staff discuss this now.

 

[Donatien]

This is because the so-called "higher plane of existence " is actually a space/realm that transcends the greek world contain infinite 4-D universes, 4-D beings, and all other mythologies. As a result, 4-D beings, 4-D powers, and infinite universes, literally nothing existing on the lower plane, cannot interact, feel, or reason with this realm. Several supports of this are also shown in the comic.

Odin, who tried this, expressed exactly this, and as a result, he fell under the pressure of higher dimensional power and lost his eye.

Containing infinite 4d universes does not make you 5d. As I explained, containing an infinite set does not mean that you are on a higher level of infinity than it. Sauce: https://math.libretexts.org/Under_C...e_Topics_(Dean)/Infinite_Sets_and_Cardinality

 

[Donatien]

regular members can only post several times with Bureaucrat approval, not regular staff approval which is only for one post. Let the staff discuss this now.

Is it alright if I post since I'm the OP? As long as I dont multipost of course

 

[Deagonx]

To an extent, yes, but I deleted some of your comments as they responded to comments that I was deleting, and the point is to put a cap on the back and forth, so that when other staff arrive to assess the thread, they are not inundated with circular bickering. To that end, I ask that you not snipe every comment you see, especially if it's a discussion between two staff.

 

[KLOL506]

With all that put aside, best to just wait for Gilver and Tanin's counter-points.

 

[Donatien]

By the way, another point that would be relevant (thanks to a member telling me although idk if I'm allowed to refer to them) is that the "higher existence/plane/power" statements mean absolutely nothing regarding higher dimensionality on their own even according to the wiki's own standards. The HDE page specifically says:

"Simply stating that something is from a Higher Plane or a Higher Existence does not necessarily imply the existence of an extradimensional axis in relation to 3-dimensional entities or objects."

It is best to focus solely on the "context" arguments, which, to my knowledge, are those based on Athena's higher plane being imperceptible and encompassing 4d universes (of which I already explained how they do not indicate 5d at all).

 

[KLOL506]

Just going to clarify, we never simply deduced higher dimensional existence solely from this simple statement of "higher plane of existence", we only used it as a supporting statement, just like the higher power statement on its own which would not be enough. A combination of multiple of these factors is required to get what we seek.

I won't respond any more further beyond this. I will wait for Gilver and Tanin's comments instead. They can elaborate more regarding it.

 

[Donatien]

- The higher existence we see in the comic spans the entire Egypt realm and is completely beyond it. This is another proof of a higher dimensional plane of existence.
A small addition to encompass not the entire egyptian realm, also all the mythologies and realms found in GoW, plus a higher existence that completely transcends them.

By the way, could you provide a scan for this?

 

[Deagonx]

I have done my best to clean up the thread, removing off-topic discussions such as the bleach stuff, collapsing multi-posts into single comments (KLOL, please try to do better with that, at one point you posted 4 times in a row with single sentences each), and trying to leave just the substantive remarks and discussion. It's still messy, but I think it's a lot better now and hopefully we can have a more productive discussion from here out.

 

[KLOL506]

By the way, could you provide a scan for this?

Georr is unfortunately unable to comment here so you will have to ask him on his walls to provide for.

However, I can give you the sources. God of War Fallen God Issues 2 and 4 are where Athena appears.

As for the other pantheon stuff, the Mask of Creation in GoW Ragnarok has Greek, Egyptian and Japanese letters carved into it, the mask Odin would use to see into this green "higher dimension" to obtain infinite knowledge.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Could we strive for more transparency when presenting claims? It would be beneficial to provide supporting evidence or references when making explanations or statements, ensuring clarity for all visitors and members.​

No offense intended, but our current basis for these claims seems limited. We have only one gameplay video, accompanied by a single statement and one author's interpretation, amidst numerous other claims that are thrown in air.

The author referred to as the “higher power” does not explicitly indicate any specific value, nor is it described as existing in higher dimensions. The evidence provided by the OP and the justifications used in their profile do not demonstrate such characteristics.

While it is possible to derive a sentiment from a combination of statements, in this case, we have only one statement and two relevant author's interpretations. None of these sources suggest the presence of higher dimensions or an uncountable infinity of space-time continuums.

I am really iffy with “it has a context unlike Mori", while the amount of context here is limited to the same extent as Mori.

So if we can continue the discussion, I do really want to see each statement you are using to make this “context” mathematical to grant HDE/low 1-C.

I still want to know: (evidences only)

• The realm contains uncountable infinite amount of space-time continuums claim
  • transcending infinite 4D universes and evolving to a higher plane of existence
• Athena ascended into this realm, her spiritual, mental, and physical existence, in short, her entire dimensional existence, was elevated to the same level as this higher dimensional plane/realm.
• Athena, after ascending to this realm, transcended all beings in the lower plane and infinite 4-D worlds like “higher existence”, and ascended to the plane of existence that they cannot reach and reason with, and her power has accordingly increased both from the higher dimensional realm and because of her existence.

Moreover, it is crucial to note that these records hold significance as they are all being employed as evidence against the OP. Disregarding them would mean dismissing the opposition's post entirely, rendering it irrelevant. Requesting clarification regarding the basis of these claims is not a negative action; as visitors, we are not expected to possess comprehensive knowledge about every aspect in the series.

 

[KLOL506]

1. Why are we bringing up Mori again? Didn't I tell all of you not to do so? What happens with other verses is of no concern to us here.

2. Georr won't be able to continue the discussion and neither would you because you have both commented twice, which means your shot is gone too. So it would be preferable you send this post to his wall again and discuss it there. Because I somehow feel like this is targeted towards him, just like his was towards you. Don't delete it from here tho.

3. The infinite 4-D stuff is not part of this debate and is part of the Yggdrasil debacle which is already being overseen by DT ATM. Completely different topic, should not even be mentioned here.

 

[Deagonx]

Ant gave her authorization to make another comment, and the Mori stuff is just an analogy to explain the premise of the objection. You're coming on a little too strong here, she didn't do anything wrong with that comment.

As for the 4-D stuff, people have brought it up as a basis for the upgrade, so it's relevant here too.

 

[KLOL506]

Ant gave her authorization to make another comment,

And she made that comment right now. So that's two.

and the Mori stuff is just an analogy to explain the premise of the objection.

I personally wouldn't. I would treat both cases separately from each other.

You're coming on a little too strong here, she didn't do anything wrong with that comment.

I didn't say she did anything wrong tho.

As for the 4-D stuff, people have brought it up as a basis for the upgrade, so it's relevant here too.

Guess I will have to ask them about it then.

 

[KLOL506]

As for the 4-D stuff, people have brought it up as a basis for the upgrade, so it's relevant here too.

Okay so I checked, and so far only Georr argued for the whole "infinite 4D structures", not once did he make mention of "uncountably infinite number of 4D spacetime continuums", so IDK what exactly Dread is getting at here when she said this:

• The realm contains uncountable infinite amount of space-time continuums claim

I asked Georr regarding this, and he has explicitly confirmed he was talking solely about the size of those realms, not the quantity of how many 4D universe-sized realms there were.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I asked Georr regarding this, and he has explicitly confirmed he was talking solely about the size of those realms, not the quantity of how many 4D universe-sized realms there were.

He was trying to prove that the realm is higher dimensional due to a fact that it contains infinite 4-D universes.
There are factors that need to be taken into consideration if it would qualify for low 1-C or higher dimensional/additional axis:

1. Either it has uncountable infinite amount of 4D universes – no evidence
2. Either the realm is explicitly stated to be higher dimensional – no evidence
3. Either the realm views those infinite 4-D universes/infinite amount of 4-D universes as fiction (r>f transcendence) – no evidence
4. The realm transcends those infinite 4-D universes and the transcendence is qualitative superior to them – no evidence
5. The realm is uncountable infinitely bigger than infinite 4-D universes – no evidence

Indeed, he put forth a statement that should have met at least one of these criteria to qualify as a valid assertion for low 1-C. However, the claim fell short of satisfying any of these conditions.

Respectfully, Klol, your appreciation of his message could imply agreement, suggesting that his points are in opposition to the OP.
Despite making claims about the higher-dimensional nature of the realm, he failed to provide any scans as evidence to support his assertions. Therefore, his assertion lacks substantiation.

Furthermore, when Georr mentioned “infinite 4-D universes,” it can be inferred that he meant an infinite number of 4-D universes, considering his use of the plural form “universes” rather than “universe.”

I got permission from @Planck69 to post this; regarding the claim about infinite 4D universes​

 

[Firestorm808]

I recall someone mentioning the prior upgrade thread to me before. I was suspicious, but I didn't look into it any deeper at the time. Looking at this topic now, I am hesitant to say Athena got infinitely more powerful from her ascension. I will wait for more input at this time.

 

[KLOL506]

Either it has uncountable infinite amount of 4D universes – no evidence

Not once did he ever say that there were an infinite number of universes at play here. Not even once. I checked the comment. @Tanin_iver checked the comment. I grilled them about it. They all said the same thing: It was referring to their size, not their quantity.

Either the realm is explicitly stated to be higher dimensional – no evidence

We've already been through this Dread, let's not beat a dead horse here.

Either the realm views those infinite 4-D universes/infinite amount of 4-D universes as fiction (r>f transcendence) – no evidence

Pretty sure R>F gets you nowhere anymore.

R>F is just one way amongst many, and even then, well, the above line kind of nukes it.

We didn't even use R>F for this.

The realm transcends those infinite 4-D universes and the transcendence is qualitative superior to them – no evidence

Pray tell, what exactly do these "infinite 4-D universes" represent here?

As for the transcendence, I see no need to reiterate what we've already discussed in the prior thread.

The realm is uncountable infinitely bigger than infinite 4-D universes – no evidence

Once again, what do these "infinite 4-D universes" represent here?

Indeed, he put forth a statement that should have met at least one of these criteria to qualify as a valid assertion for low 1-C. However, the claim fell short of satisfying any of these conditions.

Except he never made the claim about "unquantifiably infinite number of 4D universes", you're the one claiming he made it without any evidence to it.

Respectfully, Klol, your appreciation of his message could imply agreement, suggesting that his points are in opposition to the OP.

Okay? So what? I can't agree to people whose opinions I find more reasonable? So what if his opinion is in opposition to the OP?

Despite making claims about the higher-dimensional nature of the realm, he failed to provide any scans as evidence to support his assertions. Therefore, his assertion lacks substantiation.

You mean the scans we've been posting ad nauseam? Back in the previous thread and in this one? Both Planck and I?

I'm not even gonna bother with these wild accusations of "failed to provide scans" because frankly, we've played this same game twice now in the previous thread and in this one. I'm just gonna wait for Tanin and Gilver comment and then let staff make the decisions for themselves.

Furthermore, when Georr mentioned “infinite 4-D universes,” it can be inferred that he meant an infinite number of 4-D universes, considering his use of the plural form “universes” rather than “universe.”

Wrong. I asked him and he stated he did not mean "an infinite number", but rather he was referring to their size, akin to "infinite 4-D space" or whatever it is that suddenly exists if you're infinitely larger than a 4D space-time continuum or what-have you.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm not even gonna bother with these wild accusations of "failed to provide scans" because frankly, we've played this same game twice now in the previous thread and in this one.

I'm just not clear on what the basis is for envisioning this realm as being infinitely more powerful rather than just an unquantified "more powerful" in general which wouldn't grant QS by itself.

 

[Deagonx]

So that there is not further confusion: The debate between ImmortalDread and Georredannea15 went on a bit longer than was intended for a staff discussion thread, and as a result of the pursuing RVR drama about it, Antvasima (a bureaucrat) authorized Dread to comment again to compensate for it.

However, for a user to comment indefinitely, they need Bureaucrat approval, they can't just keep renewing approval from a thread mod and circumvent that restriction. This is for the staff to discuss now, but there are other users who may make a summary post later (such as Gilver, who we are waiting on a possible rebuttal from.)

 

[KLOL506]

Tanin too. He will write a rebuttal on OP.

Apologies but a bullshit outage is affecting my ability to respond. Guess we'll have to wait for Gilver and Tanin.