Isekai at Peace: Mind=Soul

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This has already been semi-accepted, it was placed into the peerage ranking system page to justify Mid-Godly regen for 6 Kings, but hasn't accepted what exactly that means for everyone else. The evidence used there:

Isis is capable of completely annihilating the existence of others, including their souls (Chapter 78), which at the same time caused those around her to have their minds broken (Chapter 78). Epsilon was able to reincarnate Miyabi into a different body using her only her soul (Chapter 2256), but due to forceful nature of the reincarnation, caused Miyabi to lose some of her memories (Chapter 2257), which means if that wasn't the case, she would have been fully reincarnated with all her memories with just her soul alone. This proves memories are contained in the soul, and in addition, souls have been shown to be able to think on their own (Chapter 464).

Based on all this evidence, I think mind=soul, thus everyone who has mind manipulation, should have soul manipulation, and vice versa.

 

[Eseseso]

Interesting. Following.

 

[Noneless21]

While I agree that mind equals soul since Anima who remembers Kaito and her time as black bear didn't get Uber deleted by enraged Isis, I think it was a bit of a stretch to say that anyone who has mind manipulation also have soul manipulation? Like, does that work??? Logically it does sounds fine but I thought we need more context for this so it is indeed a bit weird but it does sounds logical

So yeah, agree with this

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Forgot about Anima, yea as just a soul she was able to tell Shiro she wanted to serve Kaito (Chapter 81).

If the mind is the same thing as the soul, manipulating one means you are manipulating the other. Lots of verses do this like Re Zero off the top of my head.

 

[BoastJr]

Alice's little henchmen are gonna get so much buffs... iirc they prioritise in alot of status effect magic so it should be good for them

 

[MrTayman616]

Can't it be that mind is just an aspect of the soul rather than both being the same?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Can't it be that mind is just an aspect of the soul rather than both being the same?

That's one way to look at it.

There is no outright statement they are the same from memory just that even with just a soul, the mind is still there, so yes thinking about it, makes sense.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

That's one way to look at it.

There is no outright statement they are the same from memory just that even with just a soul, the mind is still there, so yes thinking about it, makes sense.

That would make the manipulation of the soul include mind manipulation, since the mind is apart of the soul. But the other way around would not work, as one would only be affecting the mind itself and not the soul.

 

[BoastJr]

That's one way to look at it.

There is no outright statement they are the same from memory just that even with just a soul, the mind is still there, so yes thinking about it, makes sense.

Well

Isis Remnant can casually destroy Souls and Mind but it seems like the Soul destroying aspect of Her "Magic Power of Death" takes more precedence especially when she is in a "Worse Mood" ( That ability is tied to her Mood)

Her Death Powers destroys minds at it lowest level but Isis seems as though she needs to be in a rather "worse" mood to do the Soul Destroying Stuff (like how she did to the black bears)

I am not really sure on this, could also just be Soul = Mind

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Pretty much the soul exists on a deeper level than the mind.

So yes affecting the soul, means affecting the mind, but the opposite isn't true.

 

[Legacy30]

How about Isis having a mental clone, aka her mind, being inside a virtual reality doesn’t separate her from her magic power of death? That’s a strong argument to me that mind = soul.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The magic power of death is part of/is Isis existence, it is the very concept of death, so regardless of whether its her mind or soul being put somewhere else, doesn't matter.

Don't think that proves mind=soul, just Isis abstract existence.

 

[Legacy30]

I can't believe I forgot this, but there's the matter of Heart Tools.

[It’s just, well, our world has the power of magic that overturns talent…… It’s through the power of the “Heart Tool”.] (T/N: 心具 / Shingu.)
[Heart Tool?]
[They’re magic created by humans, who lack the strong bodies and sharp fangs of the monsters, to fight against these beings……. It’s a “magic that generates your heart(shin) as a weapon”. The stronger the belief that the user had in her heart, the stronger her Heart Tool is. Just as the human’s mind(shin) holds no limits, it’s also a weapon that grows along with the mind.]
[……T- That kinda sounds amazing……]
[Ahaha, it looks great on the surface, but in my world, 90% of the adventurers could use this magic…… The Heart Tool is the heart of the user herself, and each person’s Heart Tool has different shape and ability……. Incidentally, my Heart Tool is the Ἑκατόγχειρες that Kaito-san saw yesterday.]
~chapter 295

[However, within my research, I came up with a theory.]
[……Eh?]
[If Heart Tools exist, that may mean that souls do exist, so I thought of the possibility of a Heart Tool carrying one’s soul……]
[ ! ? ]
At the words Iris told her, Alice looked astonished for the umpteenth time.
[I knew you would take my Heart Tool, along with my remains, into your Ἑκατόγχειρες, so I gave “that” to you while I’m on the verge of dying.]
[……H- H- H-…… How did you know that?]
[Haven’t I told you why? It’s simple. I told you that it was just a mere possibility, and I wasn’t sure about it…… Transferring my soul into your Heart Tool, if I fail, I will definitely die…… There’s nothing crueler than to create failing expectations.]
[…………………]
[It was a gamble to begin with. I only have one chance, and as far as I know, your Ἑκατόγχειρες is the only Heart Tool that can take in another Heart Tool…… That’s why it was just a theory. But well, it succeeded……]
[……T- Then…… You’re really…… You’re the real Iris?]
Hearing Iris’ words, Alice finally understands that the being in front of her is really her best friend…… Or rather, her soul, and asks for confirmation as her voice trembled.
[……Yeah, I’m the real one…… It’s been a long time.]
~chapter 300

心 (shin) can mean heart, mind, and spirit, and it is related to the soul. And Iris could tank Isis' serious magic power of death with her Heart Tool not being destroyed. Not sure how to articulate this, but it's something I think worth mentioning.

 

[Noneless21]

actually, on the topic of Heart Tools, Iris' soul is in Alice' Heart Tool iirc and she retains all the memory including when Alice was traveling to other worlds, not only that, Kaito's Heart Tools resurrect the dead and they also kept their memory

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The heart that heart tools generate as weapons is clearly referring to their souls, so think heart tool users should get soul manipulation.

 

[Legacy30]

I think Heart Tools and more of this is evident enough that mind = heart = soul.

As if in response to her voice, ἀποκάλυψις unleashed a tremendous flash of light. The Heart Tool, as its name suggest, is a weapon from one’s heart, and ἀποκάλυψις is Iris’ heart itself…… If Iris’ heart breaks, her Heart Tool would be as useless as a wooden stick, but with explosive emotions, her Heart Tool will respond to her will to the fullest.
~chapter 739

In the dark core, Makina’s mind, which had been exposed to so many negative emotions, was already in quite a precarious state. Her vision, her mind, and even her soul had been painted black.
~chapter 765

Perhaps, it would have been easier if she closed her eyes and killed her heart. But even so, there is still a little bit, as small as a fragment…… within Makina’s heart…… holding unto the hope named Alicia.
Perhaps, that’s why, immediately after she felt that light…… Makina looked up in the darkness.
(……Light…… warm and gentle…… Ahh, this is emotion…… “the light of hope”……)
The light brought warmth to Makina’s cold heart and gradually awakened vitality in her soul.
(Ahh, that’s right…… There isn’t only sorrow and suffering that fills the world. That was something…… I learned from Alicia.)
Strengthening her trembling body, Makina desperately reaches out towards the light that she doesn’t know where it’s coming from. She doesn’t know the reason why, nor what is her basis. However, she was sure that Alicia was at the end of that light.
~chapter 765

Here we have affecting someone's mind also affects their soul.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

In the quotes there it says "her vision, mind and even soul", implying the soul is something which is greater than the mind imo.

But yea personally don't see mind=soul, if anything what you posted shows its not the case and the soul is something deeper than the mind.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Also idk how we missed that, besides from having a heart tool, Alice's light can affect the soul of others as in this case from memory where she basically undid Makina being absorbed into the thing her father created, probably purification as well.

 

[Noneless21]

bump

 

[Noneless21]

bump

 

[Noneless21]

bump

 

[Noneless21]

bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Of all the opened CRT's, this one should be the easiest the pass, so lets try getting some staff. @DarkDragonMedeus @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist
Based on the discussions here, this is what seems to be the conclusion:

• The mind is part of the soul, existing at a deeper level, thus manipulating the soul=manipulating the mind
• Heart Tool Users should get soul manipulation for using their souls as weapons
• Alice should get soul manipulation and purification type 2, for reaching Makina's soul inside the artificial god and unfusing her from it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

• The mind is part of the soul, existing at a deeper level, thus manipulating the soul=manipulating the mind

That would also give Unconventional Resistance to soul manipulation to all characters, as you would also need to manipulate the mind in order to affect the soul.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea I suppose so.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Lets make another attempt at passing this @Vietthai96 @FinePoint @LordTracer @Planck69

 

[Noneless21]

 

[Vietthai96]

Gonna read this later

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Vietthai96 Well, been almost a while, any thoughts yet?

Think at this point we are just waiting for 1 more staff.

 

[Noneless21]

I think this is not too controversial so 1 more staff should be gtg

 

[Vietthai96]

The mind = soul part is fine, but soul hax also is mind hax seem like a stretch to me, uhhmm, is the soul deeper or the mind deeper?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The soul is deeper than the mind.

Souls have been shown to be able to think on their own (Chapter 464), multiple times at that. (Chapter 81).

Also when Makina was being absorbed into the Artificial God, it's stated her vision, her mind and even her soul was painted black (Chapter 765), implying the soul is something greater than the mind, which makes sense since we have evidence a person can be fully reincarnated with just a soul.

So yea we moved pass mind=soul through the discussion in the thread to saying soul>mind.

 

[Vietthai96]

So the soul > mind, oke i can agree with, what else needed to evaluate?

 

[Noneless21]

honestly that's all lol

 

[Vietthai96]

honestly that's all lol

I skim through the thread and there are some mention of hax and resistance, that why i ask

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

All that was talked about was

• Heart Tool Users should get soul manipulation for using their hearts (souls) as weapons
• Alice should get soul manipulation and purification type 2, for reaching Makina's soul inside the artificial god and unfusing her from it.
• Unconventional Resistance to soul manipulation to all characters, as you would also need to manipulate the mind in order to affect the soul.

The first 2 are simple enough, the last point is weird but fine I guess. Since the mind is part of the soul, to affect the soul would require not just standard soul manipulation but mind manipulation as well.

 

[Vietthai96]

• Heart Tool Users should get soul manipulation for using their hearts (souls) as weapons
• Alice should get soul manipulation and purification type 2, for reaching Makina's soul inside the artificial god and unfusing her from it.

This is fine

Unconventional Resistance to soul manipulation to all characters, as you would also need to manipulate the mind in order to affect the soul.

Why?, soul is deeper or greater than mind, how affect mind gonna affect soul? It should be the other way around

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I didn't propose this but the logic would from my understanding be that in order to get to the soul, you first have to get pass the mind, so it isn't as simple as manipulating the soul of the characters ie normally in other series the mind and soul are different things which may be treated as equally as important, but in Isekai at Peace, they aren't and the soul is greater than the mind, so standard soul manipulation alone doesn't let you affect their souls.

But I have no strong feelings for this @Grabbing_dragon proposed it, so if they want to defend it go for it.

 

[Vietthai96]

but in Isekai at Peace, they aren't and the soul is greater than the mind, so standard soul manipulation alone doesn't let you affect their souls.

No, i don't think that how it work, from what i saw, soul is greater than mind, and mind is a part of soul, so mind have protection from the soul, so you need to bypass soul to affect mind.