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Is it really not possible to apply KE to Omni-Man?

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Hagane_no_Saiyajin

Hagane_no_Saiyajin

6,885
1,320
This is the feat in question



Now two calcs have been made on this feat (with one using RKE)

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Omni-Man Flies Across the Flaxan World

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I decided to redo this calc

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Both calcs clock at High 6-A but from what I hear, it's an outlier. But I don't believe that, Omni-Man has casually lifted Class M objects.

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Invincible (Animated): Omni-Man Lifting Strength

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And has claimed to have diverted a Class Z object

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Omni-Man Texas meteor

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And by using some calc stacking of the High 6-A and Class Z feats (don't judge me) I was able to find that he would've needed to move at just below Hypersonic+ speeds to extert the same amount of energy. Come on man! That's small fry for someone who can travel between star systems.

And there's also the fact that the durability feat we base his AP off of is from him getting a nose bleed. Come on man, are we really judging durability off of nosebleeds? You know have in The Boys they claim that they tried every weapon on Homelander and it never worked, well have they tried lasers? Because Omni-Man has the chad energy to take one to the face and wreck it!

Now, I personally define outliers as feats that either seem to have characters do things that would seem explicitly way out of their limits like Black Panther restricting Silver Surfer, or feats that are too vague to really qualtify like Aizen somehow creating a sun-like light source in Las Noches. I hate to break this to everyone, but the High 6-A feat in the comics is going to happen! And the calcs support that feat! And also Omni-Man is strongest person on Earth, there's no simply scaling him to other characters, he's in a tier of his own (until other Viltrumites come along that is)

And I looked at what's not allowed for KE feats, and no, this is allowed!! Omni-Man is in his own tier after all, and in that scene alone we see buildings getting destroyed, flaxan carnage, massive dust clouds, explosions and all of that is not High 6-A?! He ravaged a planet almost as soon as he got there!

Now I think I've provided my case, but what d you think?
 
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While I do feel like it could fit given the eventual High 6-A feat that'll happen in the series and the potential for it to be higher than in the comics, I'm just going to point out a couple things regarding the Flaxan feat since I'm the one who made it.
  1. The yield is roughly 33x higher than the energy needed to destroy the surface of the planet on a low end and about 9x higher on a high end. This isn't shown in the show, the surface of the planet's surface in its entirely is relatively fine after the dust trails are made, it's just there's a lot of dust over the areas he flew over. Since it didn't cause as much damage as the calc implies, it'd go against our KE rules.
  2. Already brought this up in the comment on your blog but Relativistic KE still has the same KE rules so since the surface wasn't completely destroyed and the damage didn't seem that high, the calc can't be used. Also your calc can't be used since you applied Relativistic KE to speeds that're below 1% the speed of light, the minimum speed needed for Relativistic KE.
  3. This feat is at minimum about 139x higher than the High 6-A feat from the comics and that's for the high end Omni-Man scales to.
Also we aren't scaling him specifically to the laser, he scales above that since it was mostly just an inconvenience more than something that really hurt him.
 
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AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
While I do feel like it could fit given the eventual High 6-A feat that'll happen in the series and the potential for it to be higher than in the comics, I'm just going to point out a couple things regarding the Flaxan feat since I'm the one who made it.
  1. The yield is roughly 33x higher than the energy needed to destroy the surface of the planet on a low end and about 9x higher on a high end. This isn't shown in the show, the surface of the planet's surface in its entirely is relatively fine after the dust trails are made, it's just there's a lot of dust over the areas he flew over. Since it didn't cause as much damage as the calc implies, it'd go against our KE rules.
  2. Already brought this up in the comment on your blog but Relativistic KE still has the same KE rules so since the surface wasn't completely destroyed and the damage didn't seem that high, the calc can't be used. Also your calc can't be used since you applied Relativistic KE to speeds that're below 1% the speed of light, the minimum speed needed for Relativistic KE.
  3. This feat is at minimum about 139x higher than the High 6-A feat from the comics and that's for the high end Omni-Man scales to.
Also we aren't scaling him specifically to the laser, he scales above that since it was mostly just an inconvenience more than something that really hurt him.
Click to expand...
While I’ll wait for the OP to respond to the first two my question is why does the third one even matter? Both are different continuities so we should limit them because of the comics lol.
 
Good question. But really, all that destruction pales with the 6-A rating tbh. The buildings being destroyed and all that doesn’t remotely justify 6-A KE, and everything that was described Can easily be achieved with a being that produces over megaton of energy moving around the planet at MHS speeds.

Like come on, Omni Man took several weeks to fully wipe the civilization and you’re telling me he is 6-A? Man grew a full beard.
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
The yield is roughly 33x higher than the energy needed to destroy the surface of the planet on a low end and about 9x higher on a high end. This isn't shown in the show, the surface of the planet's surface in its entirely is relatively fine after the dust trails are made, it's just there's a lot of dust over the areas he flew over. Since it didn't cause as much damage as the calc implies, it'd go against our KE rules.
Click to expand...
You kind of have a point, could it be better to use his canonical weight of 250 lbs instead?
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Already brought this up in the comment on your blog but Relativistic KE still has the same KE rules so since the surface wasn't completely destroyed and the damage didn't seem that high, the calc can't be used. Also your calc can't be used since you applied Relativistic KE to speeds that're below 1% the speed of light, the minimum speed needed for Relativistic KE.
Click to expand...
Well if that's the case then what's correct way to do it? Use only the 3rd speed? Calc the other speeds with regular KE and then add the 3rd calc it with RKE??
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
You kind of have a point, could it be better to use his canonical weight of 250 lbs instead?

Well if that's the case then what's correct way to do it? Use only the 3rd speed? Calc the other speeds with regular KE and then add the 3rd calc it with RKE??
Click to expand...
The weight isn’t Omni man’s weight, it’s the estimated weight of all the dust. Using that weight would only make it less accurate for what I’m trying to find and the results would be awful anyways lol

Yes. That’s what you would do since only the 3rd one counts for RKE and the others are just KE.
 
Also, wouldn't be High 6-A an additional tier, like through Environmental Destruction or such?
Omni-Man can reach such levels of force only by flying at super high speed, it isn't the standard output of power he can generate with punches and stuff. (Unless he requires High 6-A dura to withstand his own speed, I don't know how physics works in this case).
 
SamanPatou said:
Omni-Man can reach such levels of force only by flying at super high speed, it isn't the standard output of power he can generate with punches and stuff. (Unless he requires High 6-A dura to withstand his own speed, I don't know how physics works in this case).
Click to expand...
That doesn't make sense. Nolan can fly and constantly attack his opponents at high speed and later injure the same opponent with normal attacks
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
While I do feel like it could fit given the eventual High 6-A feat that'll happen in the series and the potential for it to be higher than in the comics, I'm just going to point out a couple things regarding the Flaxan feat since I'm the one who made it.
  1. The yield is roughly 33x higher than the energy needed to destroy the surface of the planet on a low end and about 9x higher on a high end. This isn't shown in the show, the surface of the planet's surface in its entirely is relatively fine after the dust trails are made, it's just there's a lot of dust over the areas he flew over. Since it didn't cause as much damage as the calc implies, it'd go against our KE rules.
  2. Already brought this up in the comment on your blog but Relativistic KE still has the same KE rules so since the surface wasn't completely destroyed and the damage didn't seem that high, the calc can't be used. Also your calc can't be used since you applied Relativistic KE to speeds that're below 1% the speed of light, the minimum speed needed for Relativistic KE.
  3. This feat is at minimum about 139x higher than the High 6-A feat from the comics and that's for the high end Omni-Man scales to.
Also we aren't scaling him specifically to the laser, he scales above that since it was mostly just an inconvenience more than something that really hurt him.
Click to expand...
Wasn't there a GPE method that yielded Low 6-B?
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
That doesn't make sense. Nolan can fly and constantly attack his opponents at high speed and later injure the same opponent with normal attacks
Click to expand...
Is there actual proof of this? In additional to that, I don’t recall him creating destruction while flying as the only time we were shown was his massacre of the Aliens so that is more assumptions ngl especially with what we were shown in his fight against Mark as KE was used for this calc in particular.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Is there actual proof of this?
Click to expand...
I literally showed a video
HammerStrikes219 said:
In additional to that, I don’t recall him creating destruction while flying
Click to expand...
This logic does not work in fiction.

Saitama in a serious attack is able to move the clouds of the world, but in another occasion one of his serious attacks didn't even destroy a cave
Yujiro stopped an earthquake with one punch, but later he only capable superficially fragmented the ground
100% Deku managed to move a storm with one punch, but later unable to cause a fraction of the same destruction in the battle against Nine

Things like this are normal
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
I literally showed a video
Click to expand...
Yeah, a video that show him flying at his opponent and throwing a punch.


LIFE_OF_KING said:
This logic does not work in fiction.

Saitama in a serious attack is able to move the clouds of the world, but in another occasion one of his serious attacks didn't even destroy a cave
Yujiro stopped an earthquake with one punch, but later he only capable superficially fragmented the ground
100% Deku managed to move a storm with one punch, but was later unable to cause a fraction of the same destruction in the battle against Nine

Things like this are normal
Click to expand...
Tbf, in the case of Saitama, not all of his attacks were shown to having the same attack potency and in additional to that, he is likely holding back.

Not sure if the two examples is that valid at the moment since the logic you using doesn’t always work so there is that. Also we are technically applying irl physics in calculations already
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Yeah, a video that show him flying at his opponent and throwing a punch.
Click to expand...
Later he and Mark fly off to punch the monster at high speed
HammerStrikes219 said:
Tbf, in the case of Saitama, not all of his attacks were shown to having the same attack potency and in additional to that, he is likely holding back.
Click to expand...
The serious attacks are the "real" attacks of his body. The non-serious movements are simply attacking without concern for attack potency.
HammerStrikes219 said:
Not sure if the two examples is that valid at the moment since the logic you using doesn’t always work so there is that
Click to expand...
It is literally just some of the examples from the fiction. A fraction of Yujiro's real potency created an earthquake, but not all of his punches always generate the same result. This can literally destroy the plot of a story by following the real logic every second; it is the most common PIS there is
HammerStrikes219 said:
Also we are technically applying irl physics in calculations already
Click to expand...
We use it when the verse decides to be consistent with the real world, not all the time
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
That doesn't make sense. Nolan can fly and constantly attack his opponents at high speed and later injure the same opponent with normal attacks
Click to expand...
Nolan actually doesn't use his rush on Earth. The episode that this happened in had an earlier scene that was about Nolan telling Mark he needs to slow down or cause massive dust storms to follow him.

Nolan needs to go at higher speeds than normal to trigger the explosions and dust clouds, something he would not do on Earth because they want to conquer it not obliterate it.
 
SamanPatou said:
Also, wouldn't be High 6-A an additional tier, like through Environmental Destruction or such?
Omni-Man can reach such levels of force only by flying at super high speed, it isn't the standard output of power he can generate with punches and stuff. (Unless he requires High 6-A dura to withstand his own speed, I don't know how physics works in this case).
Click to expand...
He'd need some decently high dura to survive his own KE, like 6-A or low High 6-A IIRC
 
DaReaperMan said:
He'd need some decently high dura to survive his own KE, like 6-A or low High 6-A IIRC
Click to expand...
If it does actually apply like that as we do need a few calc members aside from the fact the calc does violate the KE rules, specifically this part:
  • Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.
  • The relativistic kinetic energy value is only accepted up to 4 times the Newtonian value: The kinetic energy value calculated using the formula for relativistic kinetic energy is only accepted to the point where it is 4 times as high as the value of Newtonian kinetic energy. That is the case, if the speed of the moving object is above 93% of the speed of light. For kinetic energy values above that, which are not faster than light, 4 times the kinetic energy value should be taken. Reason for this rule is that the relativistic kinetic energy diverges towards infinity for speeds approaching the speed of light. So to not get inflated extremely high results setting a threshold at 4 times the kinetic energy value was decided upon.
    An exception to this rule would be if a specific value is explicitly stated: For example, the Flashhitting with the force of a white dwarf star.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
If it does actually apply like that as we do need a few calc members aside from the fact the calc does violate the KE rules, specifically this part:
  • Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.
  • The relativistic kinetic energy value is only accepted up to 4 times the Newtonian value: The kinetic energy value calculated using the formula for relativistic kinetic energy is only accepted to the point where it is 4 times as high as the value of Newtonian kinetic energy. That is the case, if the speed of the moving object is above 93% of the speed of light. For kinetic energy values above that, which are not faster than light, 4 times the kinetic energy value should be taken. Reason for this rule is that the relativistic kinetic energy diverges towards infinity for speeds approaching the speed of light. So to not get inflated extremely high results setting a threshold at 4 times the kinetic energy value was decided upon.
    An exception to this rule would be if a specific value is explicitly stated: For example, the Flashhitting with the force of a white dwarf star.
Click to expand...
I never said it didn't. I estimated what kind of durability Omni-Man would need if the feat was legit.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I never said it didn't. I estimated what kind of durability Omni-Man would need if the feat was legit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, fair enough, but the thing is it comes from him flying through the air with air resistance and gravity involved so I don’t know if this is necessarily a durability feat by itself.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Yeah, fair enough, but the thing is it comes from him flying through the air with air resistance and gravity involved so I don’t know if this is necessarily a durability feat by itself.
Click to expand...
IIRC I'm pretty sure Humans just standing up have 9-C KE spread across their body, depending on that calc compared to baseline human durability that's what durability based on KE would be in lack of better feats
 
DaReaperMan said:
IIRC I'm pretty sure Humans just standing up have 9-C KE spread across their body, depending on that calc compared to baseline human durability that's what durability based on KE would be in lack of better feats
Click to expand...
Technically you also have to factor in Potential Energy too, but assuming this is 9C KE (Will need a calc for that matter), it will ceases to being 9C as it doesn’t seems to factor that energy does technically decrease as it spreads throughout the body, the muscles, and so on.

Also not sure if we can use a inverse square law for that one.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Technically you also have to factor in Potential Energy too, but assuming this is 9C KE (Will need a calc for that matter), it will ceases to being 9C as it doesn’t seems to factor that energy does technically decrease as it spreads throughout the body, the muscles, and so on.

Also not sure if we can use a inverse square law for that onez
Click to expand...
Which is the point Agnaa argues, Humans have 9-C KE by standing up but it's so spread out that it doesnt bother ya IIRC
 
I'm personally against Omni-Man being High 6-A. The meteor feat is based off of a single vague statement that could very well be hyperbole. Without that the Dust cloud feat is an outlier that was done casually, when much lower, more consistent tier 7 feats have shown to damage him, or he at least put some effort into them (The Satellite gave him a nosebleed, etc)
 
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