Is creation above destruction?

[Trax]

I've been seeing a lot of people say this so they can try to accomplish some weird wank type scale.
Another question is does creation=ap? And if so why would that be the case.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

what are you asking

as for your second question it depends on the context

 

[Trax]

what are you asking

as for your second question it depends on the context

Does creation scale above destruction? And if so why would it scale over it?

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

are you asking if creation is inherently superior to destruction? no? why would it be? you said some people are saying this? why?

 

[KLOL506]

Creation Feats are treated as AP and are thus treated as equal to destruction.

However, for this to scale to striking strength, the Creation Feat must be done within a reasonably short time and it should be done so with very little effort from the end user.

We've had multiple threads related to Creation Feats that you should check out for your queries.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/creation-feats.113180/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/creation-feats-tiering-system-note-3.115043/

You can also ask @DontTalkDT and @DarkDragonMedeus for more details.

 

[Trax]

are you asking if creation is inherently superior to destruction? no? why would it be? you said some people are saying this? why?

Well I was talking to a naruto fan and he told me since kaguya created her dimensions that means shes solar system. He then said creation is above destruction.

5-B: Planet level​

Characters who can create/destroy a planet.

5-A: Large Planet level​

Characters who can create/destroy large gas giants such as Jupiter and Saturn.

High 5-A: Dwarf Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy very small stars.

Tier 4: Stellar​

Low 4-C: Small Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy small stars.

4-C: Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy a star.

High 4-C: Large Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy a large star.

4-B: Solar System level​

Characters who can create/destroy a solar system.

4-A: Multi-Solar System level​

Characters who can create/destroy multiple solar systems.

Tier 3: Cosmic​

This tier is broken into the following sub-tiers:

3-C: Galaxy level​

Characters capable of creating and/or destroying a galaxy, when the space between celestial bodies is taken into account, as opposed to merely the matter encompassed by them.

3-B: Multi-Galaxy level​

Characters capable of creating and/or destroy multiple galaxies when the space between celestial objects is taken into account as well.

And well this

 

[Trax]

Creation Feats are treated as AP and are thus treated as equal to destruction.

However, for this to scale to striking strength, the Creation Feat must be done within a reasonably short time and it should be done so with very little effort from the end user.

We've had multiple threads related to Creation Feats that you should check out for your queries.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/creation-feats.113180/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/creation-feats-tiering-system-note-3.115043/

You can also ask @DontTalkDT and @DarkDragonMedeus for more details.

Thank you

 

[DontTalkDT]

This page summarizes our current standards.

 

[Trax]

This page summarizes our current standards.

Okay but im a bit confused. So if they make a dimension but it doesn't harm people does the creation still equal ap?

 

[KLOL506]

Okay but im a bit confused. So if they make a dimension but it doesn't harm people does the creation still equal ap?

Yes.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Okay but im a bit confused. So if they make a dimension but it doesn't harm people does the creation still equal ap?

AP is joule values.. a.k.a energy.
Anything and everything can have has energy. Especially any action or feat. It's nature doesn't matter.

Whether or not a character's physical strength scales to said A.P is an entirely different debate requiring It's own standards of judgement as referenced by Klol and DT.

If you read through our AP and Striking Strength pages. You will find that both are different and aren't scaled to each other without good reason.

Thus you can have cases where physical strength can be way lesser than A.P, doesn't matter if it's destruction or creation. For example we don't scale any human/s physical strength to creation or detonation of nuclear weapons. Even though it is mentioned as AP on Humanity profile.

 

[KLOL506]

AP is joule values.. a.k.a energy.
Anything and everything can have has energy. Especially any action or feat. It's nature doesn't matter.

Whether or not a character's physical strength scales to said A.P is an entirely different debate requiring It's own standards of judgement as referenced by Klol and DT.

If you read through our AP and Striking Strength pages. You will find that both are different and aren't scaled to each other without good reason.

Thus you can have cases where physical strength can be way lesser than A.P, doesn't matter if it's destruction or creation. For example we don't scale any human/s physical strength to creation or detonation of nuclear weapons. Even though it is mentioned as AP on Humanity profile.

Pretty much.

Our entire Tiering System up until Tier 2 is based on a joule-based system. Anything that has energy can be indexed as AP, plain and simple.

As for scaling this to Striking Strength and Durability, that is another can of worms, but the consensus is that any creation feat below 3-A will require the object in question to be created very quickly and with as little effort as possible (It must take less effort than their punching and kicking power) to scale to their physicals.

Sometimes even brute-force destruction feats can also be well above the normal operating striking strength level of said character, like a final explosion type of thing or Ultimate Attack.

 

[KLOL506]

Well I was talking to a naruto fan and he told me since kaguya created her dimensions that means shes solar system. He then said creation is above destruction.

5-B: Planet level​

Characters who can create/destroy a planet.

5-A: Large Planet level​

Characters who can create/destroy large gas giants such as Jupiter and Saturn.

High 5-A: Dwarf Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy very small stars.

Tier 4: Stellar​

Low 4-C: Small Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy small stars.

4-C: Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy a star.

High 4-C: Large Star level​

Characters who can create/destroy a large star.

4-B: Solar System level​

Characters who can create/destroy a solar system.

4-A: Multi-Solar System level​

Characters who can create/destroy multiple solar systems.

Tier 3: Cosmic​

This tier is broken into the following sub-tiers:

3-C: Galaxy level​

Characters capable of creating and/or destroying a galaxy, when the space between celestial bodies is taken into account, as opposed to merely the matter encompassed by them.

3-B: Multi-Galaxy level​

Characters capable of creating and/or destroy multiple galaxies when the space between celestial objects is taken into account as well.

And well this

We do not treat Creation above Destruction here in terms of legitimacy and potency without good reason, for the most part they're equal in terms of validity, such as effort expenditure and timeframe taken to pull off the feat (Timeframe becomes meaningless at Tier 3-A and above tho simply because of the whole "expanding universe" situation). Even Destruction Feats can scale wildly above base physical stats in the form of ultimate attacks.

Kaguya however, had her Creation feats nuked because the timeframe was completely in the water and anyone's guess, thus without a timeframe for such a feat, it was unfortunately impossible to determine any kind of energy yield to begin with.

 

[Trax]

We do not treat Creation above Destruction here in terms of legitimacy and potency without good reason, for the most part they're equal in terms of validity, such as effort expenditure and timeframe taken to pull off the feat (Timeframe becomes meaningless at Tier 3-A and above tho simply because of the whole "expanding universe" situation). Even Destruction Feats can scale wildly above base physical stats in the form of ultimate attacks.

Kaguya however, had her Creation feats nuked because the timeframe was completely in the water and anyone's guess, thus without a timeframe for such a feat, it was unfortunately impossible to determine any kind of energy yield to begin with.

Thank you

 

[Trax]

AP is joule values.. a.k.a energy.
Anything and everything can have has energy. Especially any action or feat. It's nature doesn't matter.

Whether or not a character's physical strength scales to said A.P is an entirely different debate requiring It's own standards of judgement as referenced by Klol and DT.

If you read through our AP and Striking Strength pages. You will find that both are different and aren't scaled to each other without good reason.

Thus you can have cases where physical strength can be way lesser than A.P, doesn't matter if it's destruction or creation. For example we don't scale any human/s physical strength to creation or detonation of nuclear weapons. Even though it is mentioned as AP on Humanity profile.

Thanks that actually makes more sense. I thought attack potency was scaled based on how strong you were

 

[KLOL506]

Thanks that actually makes more sense. I thought attack potency was scaled based on how strong you were

LOL no, that's not AP, that's Powerscaling. Powerscaling is figuring out which person is stronger than which.

 

[Trax]

LOL no, that's not AP, that's Powerscaling. Powerscaling is figuring out which person is stronger than which.

What I meant was that I thought ap=Brute strength feats.

 

[KLOL506]

What I meant was that I thought ap=Brute strength feats.

Nah, AP = Energy yield in joules from any kind of feat, brute-force, elemental (Fire, ice, wind, etc.), explosive, mass-creation table, GBE, etc.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

striking strength is how much force you can exert with your physical body, AP is what KLOL said

 

[Trax]

striking strength is how much force you can exert with your physical body, AP is what KLOL said

ok

 

[Dooyo]

This page summarizes our current standards.

What if a character created from nothingness, an entire Universe like ours? Starting with the Big Bang? With it's own timeline, etc.

Do you see it such creation feat as low 2C? And scaling to its AP since well, he is the god of the verse?

 

[KLOL506]

What if a character created from nothingness, an entire Universe like ours? Starting with the Big Bang? With it's own timeline, etc.

Do you see it such creation feat as low 2C?

Yes.

And scaling to its AP since well, he is the god of the verse?

Generally, yes. Scaling it to striking strength however, is a different story. That requires jumping through a couple of hoops.

 

[Dooyo]

Yes.


Generally, yes. Scaling it to striking strength however, is a different story. That requires jumping through a couple of hoops.

So it's a case by case? But in my opinion, if such being can casually create an Universe with the Big Bang, which itself requires a ludicrous amount of energy, it's not that unreasonable to say it's scale to his AP, Dura, etc.

 

[KLOL506]

So it's a case by case? But in my opinion, if such being can casually create an Universe with the Big Bang, which itself requires a ludicrous amount of energy, it's not that unreasonable to say it's scale to his AP, Dura, etc.

Depends on whether a universal energy source was in play or not. And just how much effort the feat took compared to his other offensive feats.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Depends on whether a universal energy source was in play or not. And just how much effort the feat took compared to his other offensive feats.

He was asking if the Absolute being from Solo leveling that supposedly created a universe would have his tier scaling to his durability so that he can make a bunch of characters universal.
And by dimension he means NAruto dimensions that were created by otsutsuki that contain constelations.

 

[KLOL506]

He was asking if the Absolute being from Solo leveling that supposedly created a universe would have his tier scaling to his durability so that he can make a bunch of characters universal.
And by dimension he means NAruto dimensions that were created by otsutsuki that contain constelations.

Bruh, I thought he was talking about dimension creation like Ares from God of War or Mundus from DMC.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Bruh, I thought he was talking about dimension creation like Ares from God of War or Mundus from DMC.

He made up a lot of stuff and tried to use your answer to get a bunch of solo leveling characters to universal level because they killed a being that created a universe ignoring that the being didnt even actually fight back

 

[Dooyo]

Depends on whether a universal energy source was in play or not. And just how much effort the feat took compared to his other offensive feats.

It is said that character created the Universe from nothingness and that Universe is literally comparable to our real life Universe.

 

[Dooyo]

He made up a lot of stuff and tried to use your answer to get a bunch of solo leveling characters to universal level because they killed a being that created a universe ignoring that the being didnt even actually fight back

Nowhere it was said that he didn't fight back in the novel, so nice headcanon.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

It is said that character created the Universe from nothingness and that Universe is literally comparable to our real life Universe.

That's low2C feat right there.
How did he create it?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Nowhere it was said that he didn't fight back in the novel, so nice headcanon.

Go to the page of creation in the van wiki

Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.

 

[KLOL506]

It is said that character created the Universe from nothingness and that Universe is literally comparable to our real life Universe.

Not good enough. We need proof that:

1. It involved the usage of a energy source that also amplifies physical striking strength and supernatural offensive attacking power to the same power level,

2. That a greater amount of energy usage of the energy source results in a proportionally-higher blunt-force striking power or supernatural offensive power.

3. The universe creation feat required equal or considerably less effort than either their typical physical punching/kicking/striking and/or supernatural offensive powers

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Not good enough. We need proof that:

1. It involved the usage of a energy source that also amplifies physical striking strength and supernatural offensive attacking power to the same power level,

2. That a greater amount of energy usage of the energy source results in a proportionally-higher blunt-force striking power or supernatural offensive power.

3. The universe creation feat required equal or considerably less effort than either their typical physical punching/kicking/striking and/or supernatural offensive powers

The absolute being doesnt have a single fight, even when he died there was no mention to a fight and no description of significant damage around his body.

 

[Dooyo]

Not good enough. We need proof that:

1. It involved the usage of a energy source that also amplifies physical striking strength and supernatural offensive attacking power to the same power level,

2. That a greater amount of energy usage of the energy source results in a proportionally-higher blunt-force striking power or supernatural offensive power.

3. The universe creation feat required equal or considerably less effort than either their typical physical punching/kicking/striking and/or supernatural offensive powers

Well, he is only stated to be the Creator of the verse and created others creatures as powerful as him.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, he is only stated to be the Creator of the verse and created others creatures as powerful as him.

Fulfills none of the above conditions. Nope, can't accept this for anything other than scaling to Creation AP only.