Is Android 17 even Super Saiyan Blue level?

[JohnCenaNation]

According to Android 17's profile, this is what we gotten.

Universe level (After training for over 10 years he grew strong enough to fight evenly with Super Saiyan Blue Goku. In the Tournament of Power he clashed with Ribrianne and fought against Toppo)

Universe level (Took attacks from Ribrianne and Toppo. His barrier withstood powerful attacks from Anilaza, suppressed Jiren and Toppo, although the latter was capable of cracking said barrier)

"After training for over 10 years he grew strong enough to fight evenly with Super Saiyan Blue Goku." Not only both Goku and Android 17 were suppressed during their fight, but the problem is, Goku in his Super Saiyan Blue form can suppress himself to the point he could match Krillin's power level. Unless you are falsely implying that Krillin is universe level for matching a suppressed Super Saiyan Blue Goku's power level, then go ahead.

"In the Tournament of Power he clashed with Ribrianne and fought against Toppo." Not only Ribrianne is not even universe level according to her profile, but Toppo on the hand was toying with a serious Android 17 during their fight. Once Toppo started to fight seriously, he almost killed/eliminated Android 17 hadn't it been for Frieza to save his life.

"Took attacks from Ribrianne and Toppo." Once again Ribrianne is not even universe level according to her profile, and Toppo was suppressed.

"His barrier withstood powerful attacks from Anilaza, suppressed Jiren and Toppo, although the latter was capable of cracking said barrier." The Anilaza thingy seems like an outlier here considering the fact that four Super Saiyan Blue level opponent's signature ki blast were being pushed back by a single powerful ki blast from Anilaza, but other than that, there is nothing really to change here.

In conclusion, I feel like as though Android 17 is more so closer to Super Saiyan God level then he is as Super Saiyan Blue level.

Note: This is not a content revision downgrade thread, I'm just fixing an error on the wiki regarding to Android 17's profile.

 

[Akreious]

... None of this disproves SSB level though? All you did was say "X Characters were suppressed" with no real way to quantify how far or how much they were suppressed.

 

[Hizack123]

This topic again?

... None of this disproves SSB level though? All you did was say "X Characters were suppressed" with no real way to quantify how far or how much they were suppressed.

And this^

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

At the time, he spared with SSB Goku and literally stomped SS1 Goku. And throughout the tournament, he was stomping even the strongest characters in the tournament. And he even went toe to toe with Base Toppo and ultimately over powered him due to his "Unlimited stamina." He's also stronger than both Gohan and Golden Frieza the latter of whom have been Universal for a long time.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

At the time, he spared with SSB Goku and literally stomped SS1 Goku. And throughout the tournament, he was stomping even the strongest characters in the tournament. And he even went toe to toe with Base Toppo and ultimately over powered him due to his "Unlimited stamina." He's also stronger than both Gohan and Golden Frieza the latter of whom have been Universal for a long time.

Let me pause you on that headcanon, according to the script writer of Dragon Ball Super, Toshio Yoshitaka stated that Android 17 is weaker than both Ultimate Gohan and True Golden Frieza.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

His profile did earlier say he was stronger than them. But he still has his own Universal feats regardless. At least, he was stronger than them at some point in time. Frieza is stronger now though.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He was stronger than Frieza, who could match and was even above Blue. Of course this was before Frieza went to hell and did some imagine training that super boosted his power and refined his stamina until it was barely a problem.

But he was still among the most imposing fighters in the tournament when he did something.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, Death of the Author on the "Muh (Script) Writer".

The Script Writer's word is as valid as anyone else's word, as what he might have intended and what was the result are two different things, The result was that 17 was clearly stronger than these Universe level fighters and stronger than most of them (Tournament of Power fighters) full stop.

Now you might say "Well Author's intent" but that doesn't matter as he's not the author and has no say on what goes on where, he merely visualises Toriyama's Word, who is the Author.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

17's feats against G.o.D Toppo and one of the least supressesd Jiren's are enough to scale him far above SSB level. Base Toppo was going to push Goku to use Blue KaioKen. 17 was able to block Anilaza's blast who as stated above can take 4 SSB level blasts. GoD Toppo was stated to be on literal GoD level. In fact he has 2 consistent lore feats that scale him above the U7 Spirit Bomb, UI Omen 1 and scale him to SSBKKx20 Goku, and SSBE Vegeta by taking hits from Jiren that were the same strength as hits that damaged the 2 saiyans, being the first one to not harm, but injure Jiren in the entire tournament which is a stated by multiple people by lore, fighting on par with a pissed off Jiren who is at least as strong as the version of himself that just put Bluex20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta down for the count, countering Jiren's strongest shown attack at the time with his explosion, and later on blasting Jiren so hard that he brought Jiren down to his knees and literally made him give up and lose all hope. That leads to scaling issues on the wiki with 17 since DB doesn't treat the gap between 3-A and Low 2-C as infinite, but lore wise saying he's under SSB level doesn't seem to make sense

 

[Tyranno223]

Not gonna argue if 17 is Blue level or not, but he is definitely not far above both SSJ Blue and Golden Frieza.

Firstly the Toppo vs Goku fight never went far enough for Kaioken = Toppo to be proven, especially considering how equal Vegeta Blue was with base Toppo and considering how badly Toppo was doing against Blue Goku just prior to their power ups.

Furthermore taking hits from Jiren doesn't prove much considering Base Vegeta and Goku took barrages of punches from Jiren (including a bunch of "serious punches") so unless you're arguing Base Goku < Blue Goku, this alone isn't enough.

And also the series explicitly made a point to emphasise how 17 only injured Jiren as his guard was down, which when combined with the fact Goku was nearly killed by a laser beam when his guard was down, devalues this point as well. Also 17 never went toe to toe with Jiren equally, he was either always on the retreat when against Jiren, attacking when his attention was elsewhere or joining in on a three way assault.

Lastly you're completely ignoring how 17 is portrayed in the fights against Jiren and Toppo, as when teaming up with the Saiyan/hybrids he's always treated as the weak yet skilled fighter, as he explicitly referred to Golden Frieza and tired Jiren as monsters, and relied on Goku, Vegeta and Gohan to deliver stronger direct blows against their foes.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Tyranno Toppo's performance against Vegeta and Goku is pretty inconsequential though, unless you forgot they powered up substantially with the whole Black debaclex compared to the initial tournament. Vegeta himself went from useless to dominating against Black, which is a massive difference.

That can easily just be chalked up to Jiren holding back since they were massively weakened, otherwise they would just die and he'd be out. He can already suppress his power immensely, it's not very unbelievable.

So in short words, unless we just restrict "blue level" to be Goku and Vegeta near the end of the Tournament of Power after many power ups, 17 is certainly Blue Level.