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Invincible: 5-A Upgrade Re-Take + Tech Jacket scaling chain

Chariot190 said:
Case and point, you don't think?
Well, can you actually prove that? not like theyre the smartest dudes to begin with. Who knows why, why didn't they do it in the seconds you were arguing it took place over anyway? They waited regardless, so what's the difference between a dozen odd seconds and minutes? He would have had time to say it regardless.

I never said it was 5 minutes, but was it 5? Or 3, 1, half, etc? We don't know, it could have easily been whatever, fact is we don't know, there's a easy argument to suggest it took a lil bit, and there's like zero context clues or frame of references to go by because we only see the start, and the end, with one vague inbetween.

I'm going to be blunt, if ANY feat or calc is prefaced with "I think", stop, if a major component is based solely on interpretation, it can never be treated as a solid flatout rating, and the more vague it becomes, the more likely it wouldn't even be treated as a possibly. We work with what we can confirm, and if we don't need to guess, we don't.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that because I want to impose my perception, someone simply wouldn't take terribly long to acknowledge it after recovering from the initial shock(unless that's also my perception), doesn't matter tho it got accepted
FusionPrime0 said:
The PE end just got accepted, also the Viltrum Bust calc just got accepted as well.
Can I apply these changes now or does a mod need to review this thread?
Click to expand...
Don't we need yet another CRT for that ? With this one there's 3 active ones rn

Either OP deletes most of this and replace it with that or I could include them in my own since no mods have looked into it yet and if they have but didn't comment :👊
 
I massively disagree, but holy **** why is there so much text in this thread? I also disagree with a lot being said in this thread. I’ll reply soon
 
Alright, ATP I think just upscaling the Planet's size by 1.25x is the best we can do here. Unless the Moon scaling thing for calcs are accepted, of course.
 
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LegendariumOfLies said:
8-A+ Verse Wide.
Nah just joking. We are still waiting on the mods to decide the calcs fate.
Click to expand...
Jokes aside, re-reading the stuff both of us (me and Chariot) said here is starting to make me want to use GPE for the feat instead and call it a day. I find it hard to imagine that the velocity of the ejected mass is only escape velocity, but obviously the only other option at this point would be MFTL+. Mass moving at around 13 km/s would take 3 minutes to move 2495 km, and the mass taking that long to move before this scan happens still seems contextually way too farfetched to imagine.

I'm still also not opposed to upgrading the Planet's size via Moon scaling, they're pretty clearly all perfect spheres meaning they have to be 600 km in diameter. The only issue with this would be that we don't know via perspective if they're behind/above the Planet or right next to them, and there's not really a way to calc it without assuming distances, unless you wanna use this scan from the show.
 
ReturnofKhadz said:
I massively disagree, but holy **** why is there so much text in this thread? I also disagree with a lot being said in this thread. I’ll reply soon
Click to expand...
I don't think anything you can say is something Chariot hasn't said already, to be quite honest.
 
Re-did the calc with the 1.25x Earth size and got rid of the RKE, just used GPE and KE ends.

Btw, do you guys think we could get anything from this? The Viltrumites near the ring explicitly survive being near the actual full explosion of the Planet caused by the unstable core and not just the ejected mass. We see in the latter scan that the ring of bodies isn't vaporized, the bodies that were caught in the explosion are just sent flying, but not really harmed. Could you get something with inverse-square law stuff? Also, a timeframe doesn't even need to be used due to the inverse-square formula for destroying celestial bodies (E = 4 * U * (Er/Tr)^2).

@FusionPrime0 @Chariot190 @ReturnofKhadz
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
I'm still also not opposed to upgrading the Planet's size via Moon scaling, they're pretty clearly all perfect spheres meaning they have to be 600 km in diameter. The only issue with this would be that we don't know via perspective if they're behind/above the Planet or right next to them, and there's not really a way to calc it without assuming distances, unless you wanna use this scan from the show.
Click to expand...
you really wouldn't wanna
it'd make the planet miniscule if that thing is only 600km, that thing is right up the planet's ass.
StoneKillerz12 said:
Re-did the calc with the 1.25x Earth size and got rid of the RKE, just used GPE and KE ends.
Click to expand...
We already did that and got it accepted, basically same values.
Though LS might be interesting, not sure if it's that simple but LS should be able to be obtained somehow?
StoneKillerz12 said:
Btw, do you guys think we could get anything from this? The Viltrumites near the ring explicitly survive being near the actual full explosion of the Planet caused by the unstable core and not just the ejected mass. We see in the latter scan that the ring of bodies isn't vaporized, the bodies that were caught in the explosion are just sent flying, but not really harmed. Could you get something with inverse-square law stuff? Also, a timeframe doesn't even need to be used due to the inverse-square formula for destroying celestial bodies (E = 4 * U * (Er/Tr)^2).

@FusionPrime0 @Chariot190 @ReturnofKhadz
Click to expand...
Yeah you could but, easy even, but it'd suck. ISA law brrrrrrr, and NOT in a good way, just to give you a idea, even being 1m away from the epicenter, drops shit by like 1000x, I'd be shocked if it's even 6-A. Legit the best thing it's good for, is the fact exploding planets kinda super hot so it goes into the one off burst heat res pile. Ig light res too, would be blinding.
The KE of the debris like that city chunk might be good depending on how the show portrays it, but that circles back into just waiting for the show.
 
Chariot190 said:
The KE of the debris like that city chunk might be good depending on how the show portrays it, but that circles back into just waiting for the show.
Click to expand...
The ejected mass that was calced is already far beyond City level in size, that shit is Continent level when it comes to size. I don't really see how that'd upgrade anything.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
The ejected mass that was calced is already far beyond City level in size, that shit is Continent level when it comes to size. I don't really see how that'd upgrade anything.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the actual chunk of a city.
And because you're arguing ISA there.

The bigger the total mass is, compared to them, only tanks the result. Some goon getting slapped in the fact with a hypervelocity city is gonna be pretty decent after ISA. Moreso compared to the total mass that 99% isn't even close to them.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
MODS THE TWO AUTISTS ARE SLAPFIGHTING AGAIN.
Seriously, though can we get two mods to apply the calcs
Click to expand...
Ignoring the fact it's chill and actual discussion so this kind of falls under baiting and instigation, I don't think I need to say this, but, you know that's report worthy, and arguably ban worthy right? which i wont be doing solely so berserk isnt left alone again.
But the inciting and the whole mental illness as a thinly veiled derogatory insult thing, we ain't on discord lad, as trivial as it might seem you gotta tone that shit back a bit.
 
Chariot190 said:
Ignoring the fact it's chill and actual discussion so this kind of falls under baiting and instigation, I don't think I need to say this, but, you know that's report worthy, and arguably ban worthy right? which i wont be doing solely so berserk isnt left alone again.
But the inciting and the whole mental illness as a thinly veiled derogatory insult thing, we ain't on discord lad, as trivial as it might seem you gotta tone that shit back a bit.
Click to expand...
c77

I was just joking. Don't worry, I'll cool it.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
Alright, ATP I think just upscaling the Planet's size by 1.25x is the best we can do here. Unless the Moon scaling thing for calcs are accepted, of course.
Click to expand...
Moon scaling gives nothing good. I took the time months ago to actually try it using purely angular resolution and newtonian formulae (without blindly assuming the moons are the same distance away from POV as the planet is) and it nerfs the planet's size just by using minimum potato-sphere transition size of rocky body

docs.google.com

Viltrum from Moon perspective

Panel’s height: 3056px. Planet’s diameter: 1164px. Moon’s diameter: 122px. Radial separation: 1163px. Rocky Moon minimum radius: 300km = 300,000m -> diameter = 600,000m. Moon’s distance from POV: Moon‘s diameter in metres×Panel’s height in pixels/[Moon’s diameter in pixels×2tan(35°)] = 30...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
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Chariot190 said:
Not really anyone's problem if it got accepted.

It's just calculating the planet's size itself via the known facts, that being the gravity on top of the density being earth-like, which in turn enables a size to be obtained. This ever so slightly increases its size, and thus the mass and speed and stuff. It's small, but a small boost is still a boost.
Click to expand...
the problem is this mass contradicts the usage of the formulae used (which are approximations that work more accurately when these assumptions aren't made). Uniform density sphere=/=mean density of sphere of non-uniform mass.
 
StoneKillerz12 said:
Jokes aside, re-reading the stuff both of us (me and Chariot) said here is starting to make me want to use GPE for the feat instead and call it a day. I find it hard to imagine that the velocity of the ejected mass is only escape velocity,
Click to expand...
You do know mass at escape velocity is just overcoming the GPE of the object bound to the planet right
 
Tahoy49574 said:
Don't we need yet another CRT for that ? With this one there's 3 active ones rn

Either OP deletes most of this and replace it with that or I could include them in my own since no mods have looked into it yet and if they have but didn't comment :👊
Click to expand...
We can do whatever is easier
 
Tahoy49574 said:
ReturnofKhadz's problems with the recalculation should be addressed imo
Also, could you post your calculation of Mark ramming Allen against the moon ? 🙏
Click to expand...
Using the current method we can't determine how much more dense the continental crust of Viltrum would be with the planet having a higher density so it is underestimating the result to a degree. Also Viltrum is described as similar in composition to earth in the guidebook and the solar system is said to be much like ours by Nolan. Using the new method, every part of the planet would have a similar density to earth with Viltrum just having more of each part while Khadz's method would have certain parts of the planet being more dense meaning the composition is different to a degree. The new method has Viltrum being more "Earth like" than the old one. If you want a better explanation ask Chariot as he suggested the idea.

I need to fix the calculation first and add the dust cloud to the result, I would've finished it already if I didn't go on vacation.
 
The GPE end of the calculation just got accepted for Mark Slamming Allen into the Moon @Tahoy49574 sadly no multi-cont bos Invincible
FusionPrime0 said:
Just let OP replace most of this thread (most of it went nowhere anyway)
Click to expand...
@StoneKillerz12 Are you going to replace the contents of this thread now that everything has been accepted?
If not me or @Tahoy49574 can make a new one (I think the other threads have been left for dead or closed atp)
 
FusionPrime0 said:
The GPE end of the calculation just got accepted for Mark Slamming Allen into the Moon @Tahoy49574 sadly no multi-cont bos Invincible

@StoneKillerz12 Are you going to replace the contents of this thread now that everything has been accepted?
If not me or @Tahoy49574 can make a new one (I think the other threads have been left for dead or closed atp)
Click to expand...
This is 3 pages long, imo we should make another thread. Tho at least I want to wait till the bullet-dodge gets accepted to do it
 
Tahoy49574 said:
This is 3 pages long, imo we should make another thread. Tho at least I want to wait till the bullet-dodge gets accepted to do it
Click to expand...
Wasn't that gonna be apart of a CRT just for the low tiers? Everything else that's been accepted is for the high-top tiers and there's A LOT of issues with the current scaling for the low-mid tiers that need to be addressed. I think we should make a CRT for what we have accepted currently.
 
FusionPrime0 said:
Wasn't that gonna be apart of a CRT just for the low tiers? Everything else that's been accepted is for the high-top tiers and there's A LOT of issues with the current scaling for the low-mid tiers that need to be addressed. I think we should make a CRT for what we have accepted currently.
Click to expand...
The low-mid tiers thread was also gonna be about their P&As, I wanted to unload as much as I could with this thread from that one since I can't check on lengthy threads right now

Fair enough
 
FusionPrime0 said:
Using the current method we can't determine how much more dense the continental crust of Viltrum would be with the planet having a higher density so it is underestimating the result to a degree. Also Viltrum is described as similar in composition to earth in the guidebook and the solar system is said to be much like ours by Nolan. Using the new method, every part of the planet would have a similar density to earth with Viltrum just having more of each part while Khadz's method would have certain parts of the planet being more dense meaning the composition is different to a degree. The new method has Viltrum being more "Earth like" than the old one. If you want a better explanation ask Chariot as he suggested the idea.

I need to fix the calculation first and add the dust cloud to the result, I would've finished it already if I didn't go on vacation.
Click to expand...
Just seen this. What’s the methodology behind assuming Viltrum has the same mean density as Earth? It’s completely baseless. The standard Newtonian formula factors in the assumption of uniform density. However you’re just assuming Viltrum is both AS dense as Earth (by mean) AND has higher surface gravity. Only 1 of the 2 is proven to be true. They are 2 factor independent of each other. You’re basically just hot-wiring the equation incorrectly to bump up the results, which honestly doesn’t make sense to me. Furthermore, why don’t you think it’s possible that Viltrum’s core is more dense, rather than its outer layers/bedrock? Narratively, it makes much more sense as they somehow had a chance of dying by slamming into the core.
 
FusionPrime0 said:
Wasn't that gonna be apart of a CRT just for the low tiers? Everything else that's been accepted is for the high-top tiers and there's A LOT of issues with the current scaling for the low-mid tiers that need to be addressed. I think we should make a CRT for what we have accepted currently.
Click to expand...
So I've made the thread but I'll hold on to the Viltrum calculation til you guys figure it out
 
Tahoy49574 said:
So I've made the thread but I'll hold on to the Viltrum calculation til you guys figure it out
Click to expand...
You should add the Tech Jacket chain scaling to the CRT from this one, which would upscale post-colossus amp Tech jacket along with anyone who scales (At the very least Null, Thragg, Battle Beast, The Emperor, and Eos Mark) to At least 5.67 Zettatons
 
FusionPrime0 said:
You should add the Tech Jacket chain scaling to the CRT from this one, which would upscale post-colossus amp Tech jacket along with anyone who scales (At the very least Null, Thragg, Battle Beast, The Emperor, and Eos Mark) to At least 5.67 Zettatons
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind putting Post-Resurrections Mark above Post-Colossal Tech Jacket, but not the way it's done in this thread
There's various issues with Robot War's scaling. Also all we see of the "contend" is a single panel of Zack hitting someone with a laser and nothing more, for all we know he could've dropped to the ground the next moment, even in the future we see he can one shot adult viltrumites. Tho I wouldn't mind putting both him and Thragg above Post-Colossal Tech Jacket just by pure narrative intent
Click to expand...
Also Null already has beating Post-Colossal Tech Jacket on his profile
 
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ReturnofKhadz said:
Just seen this. What’s the methodology behind assuming Viltrum has the same mean density as Earth? It’s completely baseless. The standard Newtonian formula factors in the assumption of uniform density. However you’re just assuming Viltrum is both AS dense as Earth (by mean) AND has higher surface gravity. Only 1 of the 2 is proven to be true. They are 2 factor independent of each other. You’re basically just hot-wiring the equation incorrectly to bump up the results, which honestly doesn’t make sense to me. Furthermore, why don’t you think it’s possible that Viltrum’s core is more dense, rather than its outer layers/bedrock? Narratively, it makes much more sense as they somehow had a chance of dying by slamming into the core.
Click to expand...
If Viltrum's core was much more dense like you're suggesting, then its composition would have to be very different, which would mess up the magnetic field and plate tectonics of Viltrum. I did a calculation (shown below) and with the added mass to the core, it would have an average density greater than that of tungsten and gold. Viltrum would be nowhere near Earth-like if this was the case, and it definitely wouldn't be able to support life. Also the core being almost 2x more dense still isn't enough for the Viltrumites to be concerned about it at all, unless you want to downgrade them to like 7-A.

1.932e+24 kg regular core mass
1.4961961e+24 kg added core mass
1.77e+20 m^3 core volume
1.94e+24/1.77e+20 = 10960.45 kg/m^3 Earth's core density
(1.4961961e+24 + 1.94e+24)/1.77e+20 = 19413.54 kg/m^3 Viltrum core density
 
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