Interesting interpretations in Naruto vs Sasuke (Part 1/ Revision)

[Tenshin-Ta]

It's been awhile since I've been here, and I'm not sure I'm going to stick around much given I'm busy with projects of mine. But I got to correct some stuff before I leave. So I'll start with this minor stuff that seems to favor Sasuke a lot.

I'll retread what I said in the past. I'll seperate Sasuke in two versions of himself; Rooftop Sasuke and Valley Sasuke. So follow up with me

Rooftop Sasuke is a lot weaker than Naruto (which is true given Naruto spended almost a month training with the Rasengan when searching for Tsunade). Evidence, in chapter 175 we see Naruto and Sasuke fight. Naruto is able to match Sasuke (2-tomoe) in strenght and even block his speed. (https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0175-010.png). And as the battle continues the more the gap widens between Naruto and Sasuke as he eventually overwhelms him with his shadow clones and even dispells his Fire Ball with his Rasengan.

Shadowclones: (Shadowclone Blitz)

Fireball: (Fireball)

And when the final clash happens, it's outright implied that Naruto was going to not only win the exchange but almost kill Sasuke as a result.

Sasuke notes his inferiority (Acknowledgement) , Kakashi and Jiraiya note that Naruto might have actually killed him: (Rasengan Damage (Implied clash winner)

So in conclusion, Rooftop Sasuke is weaker than Naruto. Sure Sasuke was still in recovery, but even if he was healthy, Sasuke acknowledged that Naruto was far ahead of him.

In second section I'm going to clarify these dubious claims

Sasuke
Multi-City Block level (Much stronger than before after advancing his Curse Mark to the second level. Easily overpowered Naruto on multiple occasions[56]), Town level with Chidori (At full power[57], he was able to match Naruto's Rasengan[58]), higher with Three-Tomoe Sharingan (Upon fully acclimating to the power of his Curse Mark and fully maturing his Sharingan, he was able to completely overwhelm KN0 Naruto[59]), even higher with CS1 (Much stronger than before), Large Town level with CS2 (Ten times more powerful than his previous state. He was able to easily overpower KN1 Naruto[60])

Naruto
Multi-City Block level (Stronger than before after his training. Fought and matched Sasuke, although Sasuke was still in recovery[23]. Somewhat matched Post-Curse Mark Ritual Sasuke, although Sasuke was mostly toying with him and overpowering him[24][25]),

Valley Sasuke- Powerups and eventual equal to Naruto.

-The First Power Up-

When Sasuke leaves the border of Konoha he's immediately ask to take a drug that allows to speed up the state of the Curse Mark as well as adjust his current body to the effects. Awakening the Second State and acclimating to it's power

Despite all that Sasuke could not overpower Naruto's Rasengan despite he himself going for the intent to kill and bluntly stating that he went at it in full power. Clash Aftermath. So there's no "somewhat matched" or Sasuke playing around or overwhelmed. They were both equals in throughout the entire exchange and each blitzing each other. Exchanges and Clash

-The Second Power Up-

Sasuke awakens the third tomoe of his Sharingan, for his feelings for Naruto. (Pretty Gay)

Due to this Sasuke receives a power up in the words of Tobirama, cause Uchiha's have some Zenkai boost bs.

Tho despite this it doesn't make Sasuke superior as he needs to time his dodge in order to fully elude Naruto's strikes and his strength level is not enough to knock out Naruto. Instead uses his own momentum against him, by committing mostly to countering.

it's interesting to make a statement that Naruto got easily overpowered by CS2 Sasuke despite it was clear that he was caught by surprise when Naruto was assessing Sasuke's hand wing. Then true to Jiraiya's statement Kurama's Beast Cloak form begins to harm him, receding and rendering his left arm useless despite that Naruto still stalemated the clash between Sasuke.

During the Valley, Naruto and Sasuke are equals. The decisive factor in the end of their clash was who struck the pivotal blow. Naruto aimed the headband while Sasuke aimed for the liver blow

Hopefully this changes them back to equals instead of this weird implication that Sasuke is way stronger, given that it's not true and that's only correct in Part 2.

 

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[Shadowbokunohero]

I dont see why sasuke would jump an entire tier for being in Bed, black outfit Sasuke and Rooftop Sasuke should logically be the same.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

I dont see why sasuke would jump an entire tier for being in Bed, black outfit Sasuke and Rooftop Sasuke should logically be the same.

I know right. Which is why I find it weird that he does, when he shouldn't. It was only logical when he took the pills from the Sound Four and got acclimated to it's power when he was inside the barrel.

 

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[BlastX]

You can't use the Rasengan as proof that Naruto is way stronger than Sasuke when the Rasengan was stated to be a much stronger jutsu than the Chidori by jiraiyaand punches way above Naruto's pay grade (Like oneshotting Kabuto), in fact the Rasengan and Chidori being ties proves Sasuke was stronger since if they truly were equals then Sasuke would have loss those clashes right there and then.

KN1 Naruto also never shows being comparable to CS2 Sasuke in any way, Sasuke outright says he's far more special than he is and isn't intimidated at all by him, laughing off all his blows. The only reason he even used the Chidori was because he needed to finish the fight fast because he couldn't keep up CS2 for anything more than a short time...that and once again, the fact they tie proves that Sasuke is stronger since the Rasengan>Chidori.

(I'm on mobile, so that's why I haven't posted any scans yet).

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

You can't use the Rasengan as proof that Naruto is way stronger than Sasuke when the Rasengan was stated to be a much stronger jutsu than the Chidori by jiraiyaand punches way above Naruto's pay grade (Like oneshotting Kabuto), in fact the Rasengan and Chidori being ties proves Sasuke was stronger since if they truly were equals then Sasuke would have loss those clashes right there and then.

Yes cause that's how jutsus work. Amp their power, chidori works the same way. Especially when it was confirmed to be a failed nature transformation of the Rasengan. Sasuke went with the intent to kill Naruto with his chidori and Naruto confirms this when he stalemated it. Even Sasuke stated he went full power. It's the other way around. Naruto held back in the clash.

KN1 Naruto also never shows being comparable to CS2 Sasuke in any way, Sasuke outright says he's far more special than he is and isn't intimidated at all by him, laughing off all his blows.

Lol what, Naruto only punched him once and literally dragged him to the foot of Madara's statue. Before Naruto was caught by surprise on what he hit. Also Sasuke's quote on "Special" was him being high on his power and the context of him being spiteful towards Itachi's statement.

The only reason he even used the Chidori was because he needed to finish the fight fast because he couldn't keep up CS2 for anything more than a short time...that and once again, the fact they tie proves that Sasuke is stronger since the Rasengan>Chidori.

So was Naruto when his Fox cloak receded and numbed out his left arm.

 

[BlastX]

Naruto stopped holding back once he went Vermilion Mode, he outright said to Sasuke he would break every bone in his body if it mean taking him back and became even angrier once he donned the Demon Fox Cloak, so by the final clash he wasn't holding back at all.

So? Sasuke was unaffected by it, just because he pushed him doesn't mean he hurt him, that was just his LS at work. Yeah he was high on his power...and he was also stronger than Naruto, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Their drawbacks are different, Demon Fox Cloak started hurting his body while CS2 drains chakra like crazy and can only be used for a short time, Sasuke was transformed for far less time than Naruto was and he already started feeling the draining effects, even after he de-trasnformed his shoulder ached in pain because the power he used even if it was for just an attack. Naruto's drawback is nothing like that, he just used the Rasengan cause it was the only thing that could beat Sasuke at that point.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Naruto stopped holding back once he went Vermilion Mode, he outright said to Sasuke he would break every bone in his body if it mean taking him back and became even angrier once he donned the Demon Fox Cloak, so by the final clash he wasn't holding back at all.

That argument falls apart when Naruto still tries to reason with Sasuke. Naruto still held back despite getting the Fox Cloak.

So? Sasuke was unaffected by it, just because he pushed him doesn't mean he hurt him, that was just his LS at work.

Naruto literally dragged Sasuke all the way to Madara's foot. If he was truly "Stronger" as you said then he would've been able to stop Naruto dead on his tracks. But Sasuke couldn't as Naruto straight up dragged him all the way there and only got the upper hand when Naruto relaxed his strength.

Yeah he was high on his power...and he was also stronger than Naruto, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Not a compelling argument.

Their drawbacks are different, Demon Fox Cloak started hurting his body while CS2 drains chakra like crazy and can only be used for a short time, Sasuke was transformed for far less time than Naruto was and he already started feeling the draining effects, even after he de-trasnformed his shoulder ached in pain because the power he used even if it was for just an attack. Naruto's drawback is nothing like that, he just used the Rasengan cause it was the only thing that could beat Sasuke at that point.

That's wrong. Sasuke couldn't keep the curse mark for too long because just like Naruto it erodes the body. Explained by Sakon when Sasuke recalls it. He even notes the similarities to Naruto's cloak to boot. No, Naruto just followed Sasuke's lead and ultimately chose to clash with him cause they were both at their limit with their forms eating away at their bodies as explained. And the clash ended with who ended up landing the decisive strike at the end. With Naruto dooming himself on Sasuke's call back to the forehead.

 

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[Nierre]

Following

 

[Tdjwo]

I'm in agreement with the CRT.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Agreed

 

[ImmortalDread]

Agreed

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

thx for the support

 

[ImmortalDread]

thx for the support

No problems

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I agree with this thread. I think it's kinda clear that Naruto had surpassed Sasuke on the rooftop given the statements from Sasuke, Kakashi, and Jiraiya, as well as the extra damage that Naruto's Rasengan did to the water tower. I also disagree with the notion that Sasuke was significantly weaker on the rooftop: even if he was still recovering, he still appeared as though he could function properly, and nothing in his performance showed a large hindrance. It was after the ritual had been finished for Sasuke which allowed his body to fully adjust to the Curse Mark that he became stronger, enough to match Naruto. I also don't know where the idea that Sasuke's CS2 is physically stronger than Naruto's KN1 comes from. Naruto was clearly startled by Sasuke's new transformation and the wings he generated, which gave Sasuke the chance to counterattack and send him flying back. I don't think that's enough evidence to say that only Naruto's KN1 scales to Large Town level, so I think it should be changed so that Naruto's KN1 is listed as equal to Sasuke's CS2.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Didn't CS2 Sasuke literally one-shot KN1 Naruto's arm to the point he said that he felt like it was paralyzed or something?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Didn't CS2 Sasuke literally one-shot KN1 Naruto's arm to the point he said that he felt like it was paralyzed or something?

His arm being injured didn't really have anything to do with Sasuke's attack. It was more of the fact that Naruto's body couldn't handle using the KN1 cloak.

 

[Tdjwo]

Didn't CS2 Sasuke literally one-shot KN1 Naruto's arm to the point he said that he felt like it was paralyzed or something?

The OP already debunked that. It wasnt Sasuke that made his arm weaker. It was the Kyubi chakra acting toxic to Naruto's body.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Didn't CS2 Sasuke literally one-shot KN1 Naruto's arm to the point he said that he felt like it was paralyzed or something?

I already debunked that. That seems to be an occurring fanon that seems to picked up popularity recently, despite being debunked years ago.

Then true to Jiraiya's statement Kurama's Beast Cloak form begins to harm him, receding and rendering his left arm useless despite that Naruto still stalemated the clash between Sasuke.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

I agree with this thread. I think it's kinda clear that Naruto had surpassed Sasuke on the rooftop given the statements from Sasuke, Kakashi, and Jiraiya, as well as the extra damage that Naruto's Rasengan did to the water tower. I also disagree with the notion that Sasuke was significantly weaker on the rooftop: even if he was still recovering, he still appeared as though he could function properly, and nothing in his performance showed a large hindrance. It was after the ritual had been finished for Sasuke which allowed his body to fully adjust to the Curse Mark that he became stronger, enough to match Naruto. I also don't know where the idea that Sasuke's CS2 is physically stronger than Naruto's KN1 comes from. Naruto was clearly startled by Sasuke's new transformation and the wings he generated, which gave Sasuke the chance to counterattack and send him flying back. I don't think that's enough evidence to say that only Naruto's KN1 scales to Large Town level, so I think it should be changed so that Naruto's KN1 is listed as equal to Sasuke's CS2.

Agreed. They KN1 should be listed back to equal and the removal of those weird claims.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with this thread. I think it's kinda clear that Naruto had surpassed Sasuke on the rooftop given the statements from Sasuke, Kakashi, and Jiraiya, as well as the extra damage that Naruto's Rasengan did to the water tower.

You do realize that just means Naruto's move is more powerful than Sasuke's right? Not that he's vastly stronger than him, because if that was the case when the 3 Naruto's hit Sasuke, he would have splattered him on impact when he kicked him into the air but he didn't.

While I agree with some stuff on this thread, I hard disagree with saying Naruto was "far stronger" than the OP is claiming. Especially when you need to take into context that Naruto did not "blitz" Sasuke on the roof top. In the literal scan, Sasuke is betting up Naruto's clones (who we accept as comparable to the orginal) then, while Sasuke is in a vulnerable position (the dude was literally on both his hands after kicking the Naruto clones up into the air) so Naruto coming from 3 different directions was capable of landing a solid blow. So again, while I agree with some stuff, the notion that Naruto "blitzed" Sasuke is laughable going off one scan that literally explains itself.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

You do realize that just means Naruto's move is more powerful than Sasuke's right? Not that he's vastly stronger than him, because if that was the case when the 3 Naruto's hit Sasuke, he would have splattered him on impact when he kicked him into the air but he didn't.

While I agree with some stuff on this thread, I hard disagree with saying Naruto was "far stronger" than the OP is claiming. Especially when you need to take into context that Naruto did not "blitz" Sasuke on the roof top. In the literal scan, Sasuke is betting up Naruto's clones (who we accept as comparable to the orginal) then, while Sasuke is in a vulnerable position (the dude was literally on both his hands after kicking the Naruto clones up into the air) so Naruto coming from 3 different directions was capable of landing a solid blow. So again, while I agree with some stuff, the notion that Naruto "blitzed" Sasuke is laughable going off one scan that literally explains itself.

Yea, I guess "much stronger" is a stretch, and even if one could argue that Naruto was stronger than Sasuke on the rooftop, it would probably be only just barely stronger than Sasuke.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

You do realize that just means Naruto's move is more powerful than Sasuke's right? Not that he's vastly stronger than him, because if that was the case when the 3 Naruto's hit Sasuke, he would have splattered him on impact when he kicked him into the air but he didn't.

That's heavily overblowing it. Given Naruto's treated as a match to show Sasuke he was equal and his better and never intended to kill or hurt Sasuke until he lost his temper with him.

While I agree with some stuff on this thread, I hard disagree with saying Naruto was "far stronger" than the OP is claiming. Especially when you need to take into context that Naruto did not "blitz" Sasuke on the roof top. In the literal scan, Sasuke is betting up Naruto's clones (who we accept as comparable to the orginal) then, while Sasuke is in a vulnerable position (the dude was literally on both his hands after kicking the Naruto clones up into the air) so Naruto coming from 3 different directions was capable of landing a solid blow. So again, while I agree with some stuff, the notion that Naruto "blitzed" Sasuke is laughable going off one scan that literally explains itself.

You do know. In those same scans Naruto deliberately sets him up for the Uzumaki barrage right?

Naruto is stronger than Sasuke given he spended a month in training for the Rasengan. Something that the narrative and Sasuke is fully aware off when they clash in the rooftop.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That's heavily overblowing it. Given Naruto's treated as a match to show Sasuke he was equal and his better and never intended to kill or hurt Sasuke until he lost his temper with him.



You do know. In those same scans Naruto deliberately sets him up for the Uzumaki barrage right?

Naruto is stronger than Sasuke given he spended a month in training for the Rasengan. Something that the narrative and Sasuke is fully aware off when they clash in the rooftop.

You your entire argument is assuming Naruto was holding back because he belived he could take Sasuke? Yeah no, you have no evidence to said claim and training to do the Rasengan doesn't equat to him being overall superior to Sasuke, just that the Rasengan is strong. Sorry but your evidence is poor, Nothing says Naruto was holding back to the degree you claim and nothing suggest he was setting Sasuke up when Sasuke is fighting multiple of him and was only hit when he was in a vulnerable position. I hard disagree with your interpretation that Naruto is far stronger than Sasuke, stronger sure but don't act like Naruto was toying with Sasuke because he wasn't.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter and my mind won't change. You should contact other staff members to comment if you want this to be accepted because I only partially agree with what your saying.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

You your entire argument is assuming Naruto was holding back because he belived he could take Sasuke? Yeah no, you have no evidence to said claim and training to do the Rasengan doesn't equat to him being overall superior to Sasuke, just that the Rasengan is strong. Sorry but your evidence is poor,

You disagree with the narrative as well as Sasuke acknowledging he is stronger than him. Learning jutsu literally makes you stronger Griffin, chidori, rasenshuriken, hidden lotus, pretty much all the techniques in Naruto makes the user stronger.

My evidence is not poor, your rebuttal is.

Nothing says Naruto was holding back to the degree you claim and nothing suggest he was setting Sasuke up when Sasuke is fighting multiple of him and was only hit when he was in a vulnerable position. I hard disagree with your interpretation that Naruto is far stronger than Sasuke, stronger sure but don't act like Naruto was toying with Sasuke because he wasn't.

Facts and logic it is then. When Naruto does the Multiple Shadow Clone jutsu to summon and army, he instantly overwhelms them and doesn't hold back one bit especially when it's an enemy. Mizuki was made and example, and were shown the tactics and damage Naruto employs with the likes of Gaara.

Sasuke was a comrade and a friend. Naruto only ever wanted was to show Sasuke he was his equal if not his better by beating. He wasn't going to uses those tactics on him because that ultimately make his stay in the hospital longer if not outright kill him at worst. Which he almost did with the Rasengan if Kakashi hadn't intervened.

An edit and a bonus round trivia.

The only time this tactic failed for Naruto was when he faced Kimimaro. All thanks to his kekkei genkai

That's all I'm going to say on this matter and my mind won't change. You should contact other staff members to comment if you want this to be accepted because I only partially agree with what your saying.

Kay then, I need names cause I don't remember if there still the same

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

@Antvasima I'm sorry Ant, your the only one I technically remember from my absence

 

[LordGriffin1000]

You disagree with the narrative as well as Sasuke acknowledging he is stronger than him. Learning jutsu literally makes you stronger Griffin, chidori, rasenshuriken, hidden lotus, pretty much all the techniques in Naruto makes the user stronger.

My evidence is not poor, your rebuttal is.

When the hell did I say I disagree with Naruto being stronger than Sasuke? I said he wasn't that much stronger and no, laearning a new jutsu doesn't make you stronger in the sense that you become far faster and physically stronger (at least not by some major factor) it depends on the jutsu, so yeah, you didn't listen, your argument that Sasuke is much weaker than Naruto is poor, you need to pay attention.

Facts and logic it is then. When Naruto does the Multiple Shadow Clone jutsu to summon and army, he instantly overwhelms them and doesn't hold back one bit especially when it's an enemy. Mizuki was made and example, and were shown the tactics and damage Naruto employs with the likes of Gaara.

Sasuke was a comrade and a friend. Naruto only ever wanted was to show Sasuke he was his equal if not his better by beating. He wasn't going to uses those tactics on him because that ultimately make his stay in the hospital longer if not outright kill him at worst. Which he almost did with the Rasengan if Kakashi hadn't intervened.

So you have no proof how much Naruto was holding back? So then there is no point in sayimg he's far stronger unless you can provide solid evidence. If he was as "far stronger" as you claimed, he wouldn't have needed to prove anything, he would have casually blitzed him amd no sold everything Sasuke did but he didn't. Only the Rasengan is far stronger than Sasuke, Naruto at most is stronger but not by as much as your claiming.

Kay then, I need names cause I don't remember if there still the same

@LordTracer @KingTempest @Arc7Kuroi

Your thoughts would be appreciated on this revision as a hole since you guys are knowledgeable on Naruto.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Antvasima I'm sorry Ant, your the only one I technically remember from my absence

Normal users can't tag staff, I tag two and another knowledgeable member so they'll evaluate it if able.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Overreaction much there and moving the goal post as well

 

[KingTempest]

Didn't they say that the Sasuke in bed was weaker than the one in the Chunin Exams?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Overreaction much there and moving the goal post as well

I didn't overreact or move the goal post. You just aren't paying attention.

I never disagree that Naruto at that moment was stronger than Sasuke. I just said he isn't that much stronger and that's always been my argument. You claimed Naruto wasn't serious until the end, and I said you don't know by how much he was holding back so you can't use that as supportimg evidence (at least not something super concrete). You clearly have nothing important to say other than the misuse of the terms above.

Please do not assume I'm overreacting when you literally assumed I said something I didn't. Remain on topic and wait for others to comment. If enough people agree with you than the profiles can be updated. That's why I tagged them in the first place, if I was moving the goal post as you claim, I wouldn't even bother having debated my stance and just ignored your claim and used some other reference but instead I'm here commenting but as I said, I've said my side and I'm not about to go back and forth so we just need to wait for more people to comment.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

I didn't overreact or move the goal post. You just aren't paying attention.

I saw that F bomb you dropped dude. Don't act like you didn't get emotional when you went out of your way to edit it out.