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Instinctive Reaction is flawed, but easy to fix

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Eficiente

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VS Battles
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Instinctive_Reaction

The way this power is used by people and what its name & description explain are not the same, which is an issue. Even if the description were to be the same way in which people use the power, there would still be an issue as it's unnecessarily limited. Let's elaborate in that 1st sentence I said and later the 2nd:
  • To have this power you have to react to things (As in, reactions, a consequence of something else happening to you), meaning that an act that isn't reacting to things doesn't count, like attacking a foe, making movements that would benefit you, or helping yourself (by healing yourself, boosting your stats, etc.).
    • It's on the name of the power too.
    • The power does state that you can "possibly counter" due to it, but that doesn't help it much.
  • One has to somehow only react to "oncoming attacks", which limits things even more.
  • And the means for it are "through muscle memory or instinct", which removes unknown means in which a character moves on its own, like automatic magic, technology, the Force and other stuff that may serve the same purpose.
    • It's on the name of the power too.
In short, we have some copy of DBS's Ultra Instinct rather than something that would truely fit to this kind of power in fiction. There's a number of characters that can move automatically without willing it so by themselves and we do not have that as a power, which we should.

People acted like this ability wasn't limited to what the description stated and used it for whatever cases in which a character does things w/o them thinking on it consciously, which is good for them. For example
  • Sonic has it due to being able to instinctively crash into foes, so he may not react to anything while using it. It's an attack.
  • PKMN have it in part due to being able to attack while they sleep. Again w/o reacting to anything.
  • Etc.
The power should be renamed to Automatic Action (or something like it, we can very much discuss that part), the content inside should be completely redone like this:
  • When using this power you have to act or react. (The word "Action" covers "reaction", so we don't need to add in "react/reaction")
  • The power doesn't need to be used in response to anything, as long as you do things not controlled by your regular consciousness.
  • The actions need to be done through muscle memory, instinct, or any other means separated from the user's regular consciousness, like automatic magic that triggers on its own, technology set to act under set circumstances or regularly, supernatural forces maneuvering the user in some way, etc.
This would allow the following cases to count:
  • In Disney Star Wars this 2 scenes makes some Jedi have it, there are many ways to word what exactly is going on.
    • The latter is further supported here and here in Legends
  • Items like this and this that make a character do moves/actions automatically they can otherwise do by themselves, for no defined reason.
  • DCEU Cyborg attacking Superman in the Snydercut due to his autodefense systems, when Superman didn't attack him and just looked at him menacingly, no "oncoming attacks"
  • Arguably characters with Multiple Selves having 1 self control the body when another self is in control, or when they use the former self as clothes or something. Like Raimi Doc Octopus' tentacles killing doctors while Octopus was sleeping, or Venom controlling Spectacular Spider-Man while he was sleeping. We can make cases like this not count for redundancy's sake and leave Multiple Selves tackle this.
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That's it. Less importantly, I'm certain that the image should be a gif of Luke blowing up the Death Star due to being arguably the most notable use of the power in fiction.
 
Question, I don't fully understand your stance and what you want changed

Do you want to basically rename and change the power so that it fits for others more generally?
The power doesn't need to be used in response to anything, as long as you do things not controlled by your regular consciousness.
isn't that kinda a type of extrasensory perception in a way? Like if it's not responding to anything then it's not reacting to anything... And I don't fully understand how that works...

Even if you did kinda explain it here:
The actions need to be done through muscle memory, instinct, or any other means separated from the user's regular consciousness, like automatic magic that triggers on its own, technology set to act under set circumstances or regularly, supernatural forces maneuvering the user in some way, etc.

If I understand you correctly, why not just add it as a different ability instead of changing instinctive reaction?
 
I agree with the changes. Tbh a lot of our power pages are weirdly exclusive like that

As for the name, I think both instinctual and automatic work as well. Some characters do it through instinct, some through automatic processes, so yeah. Def agree with action over reaction tho.
 
Arguably characters with Multiple Selves having 1 self control the body when another self is in control, or when they use the former self as clothes or something. Like Raimi Doc Octopus' tentacles killing doctors while Octopus was sleeping, or Venom controlling Spectacular Spider-Man while he was sleeping. We can make cases like this not count for redundancy's sake and leave Multiple Selves tackle this.
I think this should still count as IR too, personally. Bit of wiggle room.
 
I know for a fact that BBC Sherlock has this since while high on drugs he perfectly analysed a woman to check if she was going to commit suicide, all while talking to her casually and being unaware he was doing it.

I think the change makes sense but it should go more in depth into the other uses of the ability that aren't offense based.
 
Anyway, Eficiente seems to make sense to me as well in his first post in this thread, but we probably need to include the current definition of "Instinctive Reaction" as a sub-type of "Automatic Action".
 
Do you want to basically rename and change the power so that it fits for others more generally?
Yes.
isn't that kinda a type of extrasensory perception in a way? Like if it's not responding to anything then it's not reacting to anything... And I don't fully understand how that works...
Extrasensory Perception is only about senses and gaining information beyond the regular "5 senses" a human has, it won't make you do things.
If the changes are accepted I think "Instinctive Action" is a better name, people will get used to it more easily that way.
While better looking, wouldn't it be misleading due to associating it it to "instinct", whereas "automatic", "unconscious" and "involuntary" cover that and more?

Since it's just the name I guess it doesn't matter too much.
Tbh a lot of our power pages are weirdly exclusive like that
Glad to hear this recognized.
 
Extrasensory Perception is only about senses and gaining information beyond the regular "5 senses" a human has, it won't make you do things.
That’s true… but that allows you to not need to be able to react/respond to anything to be able to use it

you said the attack doesn’t need to respond to anything
The power doesn't need to be used in response to anything, as long as you do things not controlled by your regular consciousness.
Yet all of your references/links are them responding to something… which is why I don’t fully understand how that power works
But aren’t you also removing the power at the same time aswell? Or are you adding stuff to it?
 
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While better looking, wouldn't it be misleading due to associating it it to "instinct", whereas "automatic", "unconscious" and "involuntary" cover that and more?

Since it's just the name I guess it doesn't matter too much.
I understand the issue and admittedly "automatic" is a bit more comprehensive in that regard but I think that can be easily handled just by elaborating in the page, and it will be much easier for our members, especially ones that aren't made aware of the CRT, to understand and get used to the change. It also looks better, IMO.
 
I am personally fine with using "Instinctive Action" as the title instead of "Automatic Action". It is easier to intuitively understand.
 
Actions done through a regular human's realistic instincts don't count, their feats need to be surreal.
Though I can suppose what this mean shouldn't be better to give some examples of feats that shouldn't qualify for the ability?

Could be also good mention a few examples of feats that qualify? Especially for new things that before weren't included in the page description, like automatic defence systems (like Cyborg body automatically reacting against Superman), though this maybe is more unnecessary considering the awareness that people already have about the ability.

Edit: If my comment is considered to be unnecessary can be deleted.
 
Though I can suppose what this mean shouldn't be better to give some examples of feats that shouldn't qualify for the ability?
That's just there for the users who would read "X character used his instincts to do something" and think that counts, as it needs to be a superpower, but I added this bit of text.
Could be also good mention a few examples of feats that qualify? Especially for new things that before weren't included in the page description, like automatic defence systems (like Cyborg body automatically reacting against Superman), though this maybe is more unnecessary considering the awareness that people already have about the ability.
Sure, any staff can count out profiles that clearly have this power, with its evidence for it for people to see, and some degree of popularity (or not). I would rather not put Cyborn since that scene was very contrived and he will likely not use that ability again.
It looks good to me at least. However, a few of the listed similar abilities may be redundant to mention. Or at least statistics amplification seems too farfetched to include.
Well, all kinds of users often miss to list abilities because they don't put together the dots that those abilities are happening (which is fine), it is very common. So I think that to list what other powers may appear around when an ability is used comes in handly.
 
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Well, all kinds of users often miss to list abilities because they don't put together the dots that those abilities are happening (which is fine), it is very common. So I think that to list what other powers may appear around when an ability is used comes in handly.
Okay. I think that makes sense, but I also think that we should only list the ones that can genuinely overlap or be mistaken for this ability.
 
Well, if a character uses the power while amping themselves and it's more visually notable that they amped themselves rather than how they acted w/o thinking then some people may only catch on to the former while missing the latter.
 
I suppose that seems somewhat reasonable at least.
 
The draft seems fine to me.
 
Thank you for the reply. It seems like the new page has received sufficient support to be applied then.
 
Yes. I have unlocked it so you can handle both the content update and the renaming for it.
 
I have moved the page, replaced the contents with those of Eficiente's sandbox, and re-locked the page.
 
Thank you. Is there anything left to do here then, or should we close this thread?
 
I'll let Eficiente determine that.
 
Okay. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.
 
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