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Infinite Speed Downgrade for Zeus.

It’s not a pattern, it cuts off.that the entire point of the cut off is to break the pattern. If it was a consistent pattern they would just show the 1
Or, hear me out on this. It breaks off because Adam literally punched him with own move. Like, does it not make sense that's the only reason it cuts off too soon? You think the author in his right mind cuts a whole bunch of decimal places off as a metaphor for breaking a pattern involving numerous repetitive decimal places that end in a 1?
 
The decimals always take place in a single panel so yeah I think it makes more sense for this move to function differently than his normal punches than for that to be a sign of it getting cut off
 
Hmm. Normally the wiki approaches a conclusion based on the one that requires the least assumption. So, here's the fact of the matter: it takes less assumptions to say it is not infinite than to say it is infinite. Do you agree?
 
No I think it’s even and staff agree. I don’t have to prove a negative of if it was cut off or there was an unshown 1. The move shows a zero and is stated to be a move that surpasses time. Easy possibly
 
So, here's the fact of the matter: it takes less assumptions to say it is not infinite than to say it is infinite. Do you agree?
This is the official definition of a possibly rating
Possibly
Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.
There must be some basis, but the basis is non-definitive in nature. Zeus being infinite speed has basis, but it requires unbacked assumptions as well. Moving in 1e-20 seconds requires little to no assumptions when the fight choreography is taken into account.
 
There must be some basis, but the basis is non-definitive in nature. Zeus being infinite speed has basis, but it requires unbacked assumptions as well. Moving in 1e-20 seconds requires little to no assumptions when the fight choreography is taken into account.
So, the question is can the 'possibly' rating be applied if we can accept the assumption that:
  1. The Fist That Surpasses Time is an outlier among Zeus' abilities as the only one that does not follow the standard 0.000...1 pattern.
  2. The decimal places goes on forever beyond the point where the panel cuts off.
  3. The last number behind ad-infinitum decimal places is zero.
Can we apply the 'possibly' rating by accepting these 3 assumptions?
 
It can’t be an outlier as the entire point of the attack is that it’s faster than Zeus and thus only Adam scales to it with a special ability that only scales to itself
2 is covered by how we would write 3. The same way the current profile does.
 
It can’t be an outlier as the entire point of the attack is that it’s faster than Zeus and thus only Adam scales to it with a special ability that only scales to itself
2 is covered by how we would write 3. The same way the current profile does.
You misunderstood what was meant. I was referring to its pattern, not the feats of the characters.
 
Or, hear me out on this. It breaks off because Adam literally punched him with own move. Like, does it not make sense that's the only reason it cuts off too soon? You think the author in his right mind cuts a whole bunch of decimal places off as a metaphor for breaking a pattern involving numerous repetitive decimal places that end in a 1?
? The panel showcasing the unending zeros happened a couple frames before Adam punches Zeus. If the punch was meant to cut it off it would have been placed right above the panel of Zeus getting punched.

I think possibly infinite is most reasonable personally
 
? The panel showcasing the unending zeros happened a couple frames before Adam punches Zeus. If the punch was meant to cut it off it would have been placed right above the panel of Zeus getting punched.
I see. My bad.
 
I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy the timeframe being infinitesimal or zero. Mathematically speaking, 0.000…(infinity)…1 is equivalent to zero, and if this was indeed what the creators intended us as the audience to believe, THEN WHY THE **** WOULDN’T THEY JUST REPRESENT THE TIMEFRAME AS A SINGLE ZERO. I know what you’re thinking: “what if they intended this to be an infinitesimal like in the hyperreal numbers?” If that was the case and they really wanted to make sure to the audience that they were talking about hyperreals, WHY THE HELL WOULDN’T THEY JUST USE ε?

Again, the most likely and sensible interpretation is that it’s simply an extremely arbitrarily small timeframe and that’s it.
 
I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy the timeframe being infinitesimal or zero. Mathematically speaking, 0.000…(infinity)…1 is equivalent to zero, and if this was indeed what the creators intended us as the audience to believe, THEN WHY THE **** WOULDN’T THEY JUST REPRESENT THE TIMEFRAME AS A SINGLE ZERO. I know what you’re thinking: “what if they intended this to be an infinitesimal like in the hyperreal numbers?” If that was the case and they really wanted to make sure to the audience that they were talking about hyperreals, WHY THE HELL WOULDN’T THEY JUST USE ε?

Again, the most likely and sensible interpretation is that it’s simply an extremely arbitrarily small timeframe and that’s it.
That makes a great deal of sense.
 
If this gets changed to just time stop would that give Adam a resistance to Time Manipulation or would he get Infinite Speed for dodging it?
 
If this gets changed to just time stop would that give Adam a resistance to Time Manipulation or would he get Infinite Speed for dodging it?
He would get time stop, the ability & not the resistance. "So it's the same kind of stand as Star Platinum." ah situation.
 
Adam copied the technique after it was used and still moved during it. If he only gained the power to stop time without the resistance, he wouldn't even be able to move to perform it.

Then he would have resistance or immeasurable speed.
 
In relation to the TFTST that panel that mentions to control of over time can be translated to "to rule/to reign". So the feat itself can be interpreted as Zeus using the attack and it amps his speed above time itself (The fist that surpassed time) hence everything being stopped in time is because he surpassed it and isn't bound to it and not directly usage to time manipulation.

again a different way to see it but I'm not going to claim its 100%
 
The name shouldn't be taken as literal; the same God in myth could be portrayed differently in different mediums. Percy Jackson, Blood of Zeus and God of War have almost 1:1 interpretations of the lore of Greek Gods especially Percy Jackson and Blood of Zeus
I just mentioned it just cause
 
Anyway, from the votes, it looks like time stop isn't going to be a thing.
Agree (It is time slow, remove infinite): 1 (@DarkDragonMedeus )

Agree (It is MFTL+, remove infinite): 3 (@ActuallySpaceMan42 ,@SamanPatou [Time manipulation through speed amps, Unknown, up to MFTL+], @Damage3245 [Time manipulation through speed amps, Unknown, up to MFTL+])

Disagree (Keep Infinite): 1 (@Nierre )

Neutral (None of the above): 0

Still Thinking About It: 1 (@Vietthai96 )

The option that currently reigns supreme is SamanPatou's and Damage's opinion: MFTL+ and time manipulation from speed amplification.
 
Or, hear me out on this. It breaks off because Adam literally punched him with own move. Like, does it not make sense that's the only reason it cuts off too soon? You think the author in his right mind cuts a whole bunch of decimal places off as a metaphor for breaking a pattern involving numerous repetitive decimal places that end in a 1?
Its a stylistic choice to symbolise how much fatser the move is compared to everything else Zeus threw out so far. Thats literally it.

As such, we cant determine whether its truly infinite or it has a cap, since nothing is shown. Thus, both options are valid to note. its as simple as that
 
Its a stylistic choice to symbolise how much fatser the move is compared to everything else Zeus threw out so far. Thats literally it.

As such, we cant determine whether its truly infinite or it has a cap, since nothing is shown. Thus, both options are valid to note. its as simple as that
Unfortunately that stylistic choice is not gonna be able to prevent the current downgrade. The facts trumps over the aesthetics after all.

Also, that remark by me was a mistake.
 
Unfortunately that stylistic choice is not gonna be able to prevent the current downgrade. The facts trumps over the aesthetics after all.

Also, that remark by me was a mistake.
Context will always 'trump' over made up interpretations. Just because it doesnt follow your definition of infinity (its fiction) doesnt mean the meaning behind that move isnt there.

You're making up your own interpretations of things as if the mangaka actively thought about all this, and they were gonna do some random meta-panel in your own image for the sake of trying to get rid of what we already consider a possibility??
 
Like it just does not make sense. We already dont treat the move as infinite definitely, but you can still definitely interpret it this way (with more context pointing to the mangaka making it a literal fist that surpassed time)

Its just trying to stir the pot atp, what we have is literally already fine. All you're trying to do is remove the infinite interpretation instead of simply ignoring it
 
Like it just does not make sense. We already dont treat the move as infinite definitely, but you can still definitely interpret it this way (with more context pointing to the mangaka making it a literal fist that surpassed time)
The name does not justify the ends.
Its just trying to stir the pot atp, what we have is literally already fine. All you're trying to do is remove the infinite interpretation instead of simply ignoring it
...You want people to purposely ignore a very shaky interpretation?
 
Yeah, except its not just the name (thats literally just a supporting point)

Stop trying to purposefully mislead.

Its not 'shakier' than outright removing it, contextually its on the Infinite Speeds side.

Just because you swing one way doesnt mean we shouldnt, as a 'professional' wiki, remove the other valid interpretation thats wideknown and disucssed within the RoR community in itself. Record of Ragnarok as a verse in itself isnt concretely known and contradictory in scaling in itself, so it invites the need to put down lowballs and highballs
 
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RoR is anything but simple. Large contradictions and their statement - feats scope dont allign.
 
Three pages of discussion for a simple verse like ROR is crazy
In approximately 36 hours and 5 minutes, we can apply the most agreed on interpretation. That interpretation which has the most agreements for is Massively MFTL+ & time manipulation through speed amps. This was suggested by @SamanPatou & @Damage3245 . So, if there is nothing new that can be added; we can end this farce tomorrow and apply the changes to the respective profiles.
 
Once again, the context goes to die.

Nothing beneficial for the profile in itself. Just removing a blatantly valid interpretation and not caring enough to cover for the ambiguity
 
There should at least be a Note in explanation. Zeus 'surpassing time'and Adam copying it is literally the most well known feat of the verse so if people rly feel the need to only wanna indulge their takes on it, it should be explained for the traffic
 
if you consider everything together, it isn't, just consider things individually, as you should do
Idk how you definite a simple verse, but just cause it doesnt have decades of content and mediums and whatnot doesnt mean its simple to scale. The feats and statements dont line up with one another, Volundr stat amps are inconsistent, things such as Adam's eyes and even Zeus' TFTST aren't fully explained and are left interpretive, the scaling even as of recent chapters contradicts itself (such as Loki apparently struggling with the speed of bullets despite there being general strong evidence and reasonings on why he shouldnt). So theres a lot to discuss normally, which is why this post is long

When it comes to Adam and Zeus' speed then yeah, this debate on how it works has been a headache for years and years. Which is why skewing it in one way when its perfectly fine to leave as is just doesn't help
 
Idk how you definite a simple verse, but just cause it doesnt have decades of content and mediums and whatnot doesnt mean its simple to scale. The feats and statements dont line up with one another, Volundr stat amps are inconsistent, things such as Adam's eyes and even Zeus' TFTST aren't fully explained and are left interpretive, the scaling even as of recent chapters contradicts itself (such as Loki apparently struggling with the speed of bullets despite there being general strong evidence and reasonings on why he shouldnt). So theres a lot to discuss normally, which is why this post is long

When it comes to Adam and Zeus' speed then yeah, this debate on how it works has been a headache for years and years. Which is why skewing it in one way when its perfectly fine to leave as is just doesn't help
I don’t agree, but I understand what you mean.
It’s a verse with direct statements in almost all cases, except for a few. Contradictions exist in any work, especially in something like Loki’s, which is quite common. In ROR, problems can arise if you try to make a chain comparison among the various characters, but if you evaluate each one individually, with their own stats, you’ll have fewer issues.

Zeus is less explicit than others and needs to be interpreted. @Zefra3011 response seems reasonable to me, even though it doesn’t seem to have been taken into account. The evaluation is now up to the Mods.
 
In ROR, problems can arise if you try to make a chain comparison among the various characters, but if you evaluate each one individually, with their own stats, you’ll have fewer issues.
Easier said than done, we still get the baseline feat that we scale the Ragnarok cast to all the way from Lu Bu's Sky Eater. It doesn't make sense for the Ragnarok cast not to be within eachothers ballpark to begin with, aside from the clear ranking exceptions (like Zeus and Adam)
 
Easier said than done, we still get the baseline feat that we scale the Ragnarok cast to all the way from Lu Bu's Sky Eater. It doesn't make sense for the Ragnarok cast not to be within eachothers ballpark to begin with, aside from the clear ranking exceptions (like Zeus and Adam)
I don’t agree with the scaling that’s being used. In my view, each “champion” should be judged individually based on their own feats, since it’s clear they’re not all on the same level. Even among the gods, there are massive power gaps, something Ares explicitly points out. That said, this isn’t really relevant to the thread; the votes for closure should already be in
 
I don’t agree with the scaling that’s being used. In my view, each “champion” should be judged individually based on their own feats, since it’s clear they’re not all on the same level. Even among the gods, there are massive power gaps, something Ares explicitly points out. That said, this isn’t really relevant to the thread; the votes for closure should already be in
Massive power gaps, but we still dont know what they are and what they ascertain. The tiers would be too lopsided for each individual character, which will cause even more arguing. only exceptions should be characters like Zero and Simo tbh (Simo has the AP but he would likely not survive any hard hits directly)

At the same time, we can safely say they should all be above Ares (since he gets treated as fodder), and they do all somewhat have a way to be chainscaled. Brunhilde wouldnt choose these fighters if she knew they couldnt keep up in at least one certain stat.
 
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