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Infinite and Immeasurable Speeds and Timeless Voids

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So while going through this thread I saw just how much confusion there is on what infinite and immesuarable speed are and what qualifies one for them.

First lets get the definitions straight.

Infinite Speed
Simply put in order have infinite speed one has to be able to cross an infinite distance in a finite amount of time or cross a distance in literally no time (0 seconds), achieving what's the equivalent of a Time Stop with speed alone.

Immeasurable
This one is more complicated, you have to be able to move beyond linear time i.e. be able to move back and forth through time as if it was another spacial axis achieving Time Travel through speed alone.

Timeless Voids
And this is where confusions sets in as a timeless void is a place where time has stopped or where there is no time. So moving in these spaces would qualify one for infinite or immessurable speed, right? Well..

First of moving in a stopped time does mean that you are performing an action in 0 seconds, yes but does it mean that outside of said stopped time you can move at infinite speeds? Often times no as it's usually the character having some type of ability allowing them to do so rather then them being able to move at infinite speeds. Example: Dio vs Jotaro

Second of since the formula for speed is S = D/T that means that in a space devoid of time T is absent from and thus any and all actions performed cannot be calculated, they're immeasurable. But the fact that they're immeasurable by defenition doesn't mean that they fit the description noted above.

This leads to a lot of confusion it seems, in my opinion moving in any of these hardly qualifies you for either rating as speed is a measurement of distance traveled per unit of time and in space with no time there is no speed.

Thoughts?
 
I've been arguing that SnK's "Paths Realm" is a true void in the AoT wiki. It has been stated that time does not move outside of the PR, and it's been demonstrated that Eren Yeager can use this realm to move through & change history and it's outcomes. The manga has also demonstrated that people and physical objects can be sent to and from the PR, demolishing the preconcieved notion that the Paths Realm is just metaphorical, and not a physical space.

What are your thoughts? Is the Paths Realm a true void, or am I missing information validating this?
 
Ok, that's cool and all but if you wanna argue that moving inside PR means being infinite/immeasurable in speed then everyone that is in that shot should fit, the groceries too.

This surprisingly highlights my problem with timeless void. Even if they are above or outside the passage of linear time that doesn't mean that moving in them grants infinite/immeasurable speed.

Again infinite speed means being able to cross an infinite distance in a finite amount of time or a finite distance in literally 0 (not 1e-99999999 but 0) seconds. And immeasurable means being able to move backwards or forward through time like it's another spacial axis (I think that would require being higher-dimentional as well).

And there are other ways to move in timeless void that don't require speed. Any characterwith time stop can essentially create a timeless void and any character with resistance to time stop can logically move in it. That doesn't make them infinitely fast, it makes them get a bunch of JoJo references thrown at them.

Also I think we say it quite well in the page really:

The same human would be completely unable to even view a fight between two characters with Immeasurable speed, because their attacks would be constantly rewriting history and changing what happened in both the past and the future. The same principle as before then applies: both of these characters are perceiving their attacks normally.
~ Timeless Voids Standards​
I don't think that even works with a fixed timeline without additional hax.
 
100 Megaton Tsar Bomba said:
Ok, that's cool and all but if you wanna argue that moving inside PR means being infinite/immeasurable in speed then everyone that is in that shot should fit, the groceries too.
This surprisingly highlights my problem with timeless void. Even if they are above or outside the passage of linear time that doesn't mean that moving in them grants infinite/immeasurable speed.

Again infinite speed means being able to cross an infinite distance in a finite amount of time or a finite distance in literally 0 (not 1e-99999999 but 0) seconds. And immeasurable means being able to move backwards or forward through time like it's another spacial axis (I think that would require being higher-dimentional as well).
Thanks for asking if I was arguing this point, I am not. In order to actually be moving with infinite/immeasurable speed, you need to have the Attack Titan power in conjunction with either royal blood, or in this timeline, the permission of Ymir Fritz. The citizens in the PR aren't infinitely fast because they themselves aren't moving in the overworld.

The difference is that Eren actually moved throughout history and was physically there, along with Zeke Yeager.

(Also, the groceries are immobile, but feel free to argue that it's mftl+ lol)

100 Megaton Tsar Bomba said:
And there are other ways to move in timeless void that don't require speed. Any characterwith time stop can essentially create a timeless void and any character with resistance to time stop can logically move in it. That doesn't make them infinitely fast, it makes them get a bunch of JoJo references thrown at them.

Also I think we say it quite well in the page really:

The same human would be completely unable to even view a fight between two characters with Immeasurable speed, because their attacks would be constantly rewriting history and changing what happened in both the past and the future. The same principle as before then applies: both of these characters are perceiving their attacks normally.
~ Timeless Voids Standards​
I don't think that even works with a fixed timeline without additional hax.
For reasons specified in the other thread, I don't think it's a fixed timeline, but that aspect of this argument is entirely subjective, and hasn't been officially confirmed by Isayama.
 
Well you did say he dropped them in PR so MFTL+ confirmed

Now for him being there physically there... If that's true then they would be visible... to everyone.

They don't need to there to be "visible". As you may know we are able to see images while we dream, while our eyes are closed. That's because the eyes are just a receiver, light fall on them and it sends signals to the brain that get processed as visuals (I'm bad at explaining this) and that goes for all our sences.

It's possible and likely that information is being sent directly to the brain without going through any physical medium (like light does) whenever they get one of these memories.
 
That's the thing; Grisha physically embraced Zeke Yeager. Not just pretending to wrap around him, but his arm is actually being supported on Zeke's shoulder, as you can see in this manga scan.

Good observation though!
 
Oof. I don't have image perms unfortunately. I just posted a new image to the AoT wiki thread though. If you want to see the panel in context, it can be found on chapter 121, pages 34 though 37.
 
Well that intruduces more problems. They are invisible and inaudible to regular people but tangible to Grisha. There are two solutions, either they are just tangible or they're intangible and Grisha has Non-Physical Interaction.

Mind you I don't remember the panels too much nut the latter explanation is the simple one as of they were shown interacting with any physical objest (other than the floor of course) then than means that they're tangible.

That's a whole can of worms on it's own as if they're tangible they should be able to interact with everything normally and their movements should create audible sound. Unless they are selectively intangible.
 
Correct, Eren was only trying to alter the past in order to manipulate Grisha, no one else, everyone else he was just observing even when they should have logically seen him if he were visible
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Correct, Eren was only trying to alter the past in order to manipulate Grisha, no one else, everyone else he was just observing even when they should have logically seen him if he were visible
Exellently articulated, I 100% agree with this deduction.
 
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