Inconsistency with characters embodying landmasses and tier-ing.

[Pepper14832]

So, to clarify this has to do with hetalia but I've seen other profiles that give characters tier-based on just embodying a landmass.

For example his profile: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vortigern_(Fate)

Striking Strength: At least Island Class (He embodies all of Britain, which is described as being part of his body)."

People have told me that Hetalia countries cannot be as strong as the landmass they embody (They not only represent the concept of the country, they also embody all of the country they represent. Body and Concept of Country)

So, with this profile being 1 example out of many. Does Hetalia get a tier upgrade of some sort or not? Some countries are large (Such as America, Russia, China, Japan) ect... The characters currently scale to a 2.0 teraton feat. So most countries being 6-B with others being Possibly High 6B to very low end 6A shouldn't be hard to justify.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"which is described as being part of his body"

Unless the Hetalia countries ARE the physical landmass they embody (or at least have mass/properties similar to it), I doubt this would apply.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Iirc there's a actual calculation that puts them there but it's not linked.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

one of them has a legitimate tier 6 AP feat somewhere

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/Hetalia:_Switzerlands_Forcefield

 

[Pepper14832]

"which is described as being part of his body"
Unless the Hetalia countries ARE the physical landmass they embody (or at least have mass/properties similar to it), I doubt this would apply.

America, has short blond hair with an ahoge, representing Nantucket, sticking up and sky blue eyes. He wears a tan uniform and a brown bomber jacket with a '50' on the back (for the fifty states). His glasses are said to represent the state of Texas (These are not normal glasses, his eyesight is canonally fine)

On Hungary, Lake Balaton, is a hairpin.

Italy's Right Nipple (Yes, silly, but it is a comedic relief anime) represents Corsica.

France's beard represents Gorges du Tarn.

These are small body parts, yes, but they are small landmasses that belong to said entire country they represent and embody.

 

[Pepper14832]

The nations are their populations, their homes, and are the land masses. These small body part references show this. They are personifications, embodiment, whatever synonym you want to use...of the nation they represent.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

At least in the manga, we actually see soldiers for the nations, indicating they have other citizens, but I think the anime tended to simplify it to only the nations themselves appeared.

How much of personifications these characters actually are is a bit up to interpretation but given America's backstory and how long-dead civilizations still exist through the memories of others, I think it's safe to say they are the personifications of them to an extent. Maybe not the landmass though.

Tier 6 Hetalia comes from Switzerland's feat in the film. They do not get that tiering just from being the embodiment of their nations.

 

[Pepper14832]

Thank you for the input Dark.

However, they must embody the land itself, therefore the body is the land, otherwise they wouldn't point out that parts of their body are a part of the land inside said country's borders.

Also, I found exactly what type of personification Hetalia nations are, Moe anthropomorphism.

Moe anthropomorphism: a form of anthropomorphism in anime and manga where moe qualities are given to non-human beings, objects, concepts, or phenomena. In addition to moe features, moeanthropomorphisms are also characterized by their accessories, which serve to emphasize their original forms before anthropomorphosis.

What is a national personification's orginal form? The land they embody.

 

[Agnaa]

Personifying something doesn't make them literally the same thing as the land mass. They can have things that embody the land mass on them without literally being the land mass.

Characters can embody concepts, such as love, without being literally made up of love.

They can represent countries, personify them, and be affected by changes to them, without literally having millions of square kilometers of matter inside of them.

 

[Pepper14832]

If the Hetalia nations literally embodiying the landmass of said country, also being the personification of said country, yet cannot be tiered based on this alone.

Back to my point of the CRT. Why is a character tiered 6-C for literally "embodying all of Britain" ?

Not to mention, Japan tanks the energy of an 8.0 Earthquake that happened IRL that is mentioned in the Manga. If he is not directly embodying Japan as a whole, how would he feel this?

If the nations's height is based on the land area of said country, canonlly, how are they not directly tied enough?

 

[Agnaa]

The character linked in OP isn't 6-C for JUST embodying all of Britain, but for it being described as literally being part of his body.

Due to being an embodiment of Japan, certain things in that country will affect Japan. The extent of which is determined by the writers.

They're based on the height because they're embodiments of the country based on the characteristics of the country, but this doesn't mean that they're carrying around tier 6 levels of mass within them. They can be based on the country without literally needing tier 6 force to move/damage.

 

[Pepper14832]

In terms of Japan. The Great Kanto Earthquake was an 8.2 magnitute at it's strongest.

Superman from DCEU supposedly off screen stopped an Earthquake at this magnitute using around 4 Teratons of strength. Japan literally only felt a stomache from this. Tanking this amount of energy.

Yet Hetalia at this time only scales to 2.0 teratons.

Also, that profile says "To oppose him is to oppose the entire island of Britain, which is described as being part of his body"

How many vsthreads of Hetalia do you see where most characters have to either destroy the entire land of said country (which in turn destroys all the population) or concept manipulate them (Which not many characters have)

 

[Agnaa]

Also, that profile says "To oppose him is to oppose the entire island of Britain, which is described as being part of his body"

How many vsthreads of Hetalia do you see where most characters have to either destroy the entire land of said country (which in turn destroys all the population) or concept manipulate them (Which not many characters have)

That's because in-verse destroying the entire land of the country or manipulating the concept of the country is the only way to keep the characters down for good. That doesn't mean that the land mass is literally part of their bodies.

 

[Pepper14832]

So, Japan can't be tiered based on the landmass they embody...

Yet, in a vsthread, if someone has enough AP to oneshot the entire Island(s) of Japan, Japan can be defeated?

How is this fair?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

VS Battles aren't fair.

 

[Pepper14832]

I am not understanding everyone's definition of embodiment.

"Unless the Hetalia countries ARE the physical landmass they embody..."

What part are they not?

It's in their names. The anime/manga says they are. The manga/anime points out parts of their body are various irl landmasses that their country holds in their borders, they are literally feeling natural disasters happening in their landmass(Japan Earthquake example) They grow (To an extent, based on the landmass of their country)

What else is missing here?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I honestly have no idea if we can count the Hetalia characters as embodiment of landmasses, since the land of countries can shift throughout history. Saying they're the embodiment of their culture, society and history sounds much more reasonable to me, but I dunno.

I do hope we get this squared away soon. I'm working on a profile for Poland atm.

 

[Pepper14832]

That is true dark. It is true that the land of the countries do shift throughout history. So do the nations as well!

Remember, Britain used to be taller than America. After several years of history, he is taller than Britain simply because the land his country controlled grew (I.E. Pre-Post Manifest Dynasty)

Also, it would explain Americas existence before Britain, France, or Finland actually discovered the continent as well.

As for Poland, there is a skit where he devised a plan to drop his entire country on Lithuana. Literally.

 

[Pepper14832]

So what's it gonna be here? Is someone going to explain what part is missing in the emodiment aspect the characters are missing or is everyone just going to ghost this thread everytime we get to this point?

 

[Pepper14832]

Soooo whats it gonna be? Bump?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

That is true. Their bodies do seem to be based on the height of the land. To an extent at least, since Russia is only a bit bigger than everyone else. I dunno, I guess I'm okay with it.

About Poland. I calculated that feat. Not sure if he scales to the initial KE since he did that with prep, but they might scale to the dropping part of it.

 

[Pepper14832]

Let me see this feat

 

[Pepper14832]

I have responded accordingly.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

It happened in World Series episode 5 (Episode 57 in total) in the Baltic States storyline. It's not on YouTube so I had to resort to shady sites for it.

I updated the calc.

 

[Pepper14832]

Well, if it's agreed with by majority that there should be tier upgrades based on the nations being the embodiements & personifications of the nations they represent. Here are the following changes to the profiles I have deduced.

General Tier Upgrade (It's probably best to put most nations strength on how large they are. I did not expect most nations to get into Tier 5 but based off the calc Dark just did I'm surprised Poland is in the Moon Level Range, possibly Normally 6-B/6-A possibly Moon Level with Prep?)

I'll probably clarify their note portion of the page as well.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I'm not really sure how to treat the moon feat. It never actually happened, and it was with prep, but Poland did think Lithuania would've survived, and he is pretty smart when it comes to stuff like that. For now, I think "possibly 5-C" is the best we can do. Or Possibly 5-C with prep, I dunno.

I made a sandbox for Poland

I dunno about the scaling. Everyone scales off each other to some extent, except maybe Russia whose above pretty much everyone...except oddly Poland I guess. At least Low 6-B, possibly High 6-B I guess?

 

[Pepper14832]

Here's my thoughts.

We know for a fact that everyone scales off to each other to some. So let's try to break it down. For now, everyone scales off Swiss feat. Well, we now have 2 examples of nations having the ability to manipulate their entire landmass/land-area/countrys territory.

At this point, it should scale to the rest of the nations being able to manipulate the same.

Using 63 teratons as average or baseline should be fine.

After all, if any other country did the same feat Swiss did in their respective country, the calc would be higher in country level anyway.

America, Russia, China = High 6B, Possibly Higher (Top Tier)

Britain, France, Swiss, Germany, Japan = 6B, possibly higher (Mid Tier)

Italy, Hungary, Canada, South Italy, Bulgaria = Possibly/Likely 6B? (Base)

I'm okay with Poland being High 6-B, Possibly 5-C with prep.

 

[Pepper14832]

In fact, I think it's better to use Low 6B for micro nations such as Sealand or Wy if profiles should be made

 

[Pepper14832]

Bump

 

[Pepper14832]

So, we're not getting any input on this thread or the calculation you did, Dark, what would you suggest?

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Darkanine's sense of judgement.

 

[Pepper14832]

So Dark. Which do you prefer:

Every profile is At least Low 6-B, possibly High 6-B (With the exception of Poland's profile making him 5-C with prep)

Or

America, Russia, China = High 6B possibly Higher

Britain, France, Poland, Swiss, Canada, Germany, Japan = 6B Possibly Higher

Everyone else At Least 6B

6B rating coming from original calc of Swiss force fields.

 

[Pepper14832]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Darkanine to comment here again via his message wall.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I'm fine with Low 6-B, possibly High 6-B for high tiers and at least Low 6-B for others.

Still not sure what to do with Poland's 5-C feat.

 

[Pepper14832]

I'd put it as just possibly 5-C with prep

Why not just rate them at 63 teratons instead of 2? It would make more sense then with Poland's feat being Moon level with prep while normally they're baseline or higher Country Level

 

[Pepper14832]

"which is described as being part of his body"
Unless the Hetalia countries ARE the physical landmass they embody (or at least have mass/properties similar to it), I doubt this would apply.

1) There's the geography of the nation. The landmass is referred to as their body or house.

The geography can influence both the physical appearance and personality (besides culture alone) of the personification.

Example 1 of Sealand



Example 1

 

[Pepper14832]

Example 2 of Sealand

, in actuality he is this small, but the above manga is telling you that they are this closely tied to the landmasses.

 

[Pepper14832]

bump